starkey76
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Replies: 164
Location: Wheeling, WV USABack to top |
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 4:02 pm
Post subject: Sabal Europe
Hello,
I was wondering if there is a place anyone has ever heard called Sabal Europe? I was rechecking some documents, and I saw a birthplace listed as Sabal Europe on this death certificate? At least that's what it looks like to me.
Thanks
John
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Replies: 1762
Location: Joao Pessoa - BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Tue Oct 21, 2014 5:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Sabal Europe
| starkey76 wrote: | Hello,
I was wondering if there is a place anyone has ever heard called Sabal Europe? I was rechecking some documents, and I saw a birthplace listed as Sabal Europe on this death certificate? At least that's what it looks like to me.
Thanks
John |
John,
I think it could be Sobol, in lubelskie.
Gilberto
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Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 9:45 am
Post subject:
Interesting challenge with this Frank - Franciszek in Polish. The family origin place "Sobol" could be located to follow the search in this part of Europe, but first of all maybe you must find the right surname from Poland? My Polish eyes see the family name as:
Prelewski [tipical for central Poland, Torun area, derived from Germany language and word 'prellen'], or maybe:
Prelinski [rare, tipica for Gdansk area, derived as above], or maybe finally as:
Przeliński [diminished in the present-day Poland, derived from Polish old language and word 'przelina']
All analysis is based on the Polish etymological works. I see Przelenski is not given with them.
Hope this would be useful, I'm making it in a few minutes before leaving office, if I'm wrong - sorry!
Tad
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starkey76
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Replies: 164
Location: Wheeling, WV USABack to top |
Posted: Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:38 am
Post subject:
Tad,
On his tombstone, it is spelled Przelenski. From what I've been told, the PRZ sounded like "Psche" in English. The first record in the US is under John Schauwonski in 1882, and arrival was around 1881 according to censuses and birth records. Frank arrived around 1885 and married in 1887. It took a 1917 murder and articles in the newspaper, for it to be clearly laid out that Przelenski was also Schewinski. Frank's brother John lived until 1935, and between them they had 17 children, all except 1 was born in the US. Some went by Schewinski, some by Przelenski. And a few used Schewinski-Weing for some reason. When prohibition hit WV in 1914 under the Yost act, the bar/saloon was listed as Sowinski's or Schewinski Hall. The "Sobol" birth for Frank is the only clue I've ever seen that could give a bearing to their origins, besides Poland/Germany/Europe. The only other option would be to drive to WVU(where records are kept) and look for naturalization records for this county. On most censuses, it said they were all naturalized in 1890. The only other real lead I've found is that John Przelenski signed another death certificate in 1924 for a Catherine Szczepanski, and her maiden name was Przelenski according to that. But a place of origin is never anything but a vague reference. Pretty sure I found Catherine's voyage with her children in 1889, but it gives no specific place of origin either. Seems the older records, pre 1900, are not very detailed. And if they departed from Bremen, Queenstown, etc, most records for departure are gone. I think Przeliński or Przelecki are the most likely roots, but I'm not sure.
Thanks
John
On searching Ancestry.com, I see a Nicolaus Przelinski and Maria Schielke in Gross Leistenau, Westpreussen, Prussia(I believe that is now Lisnowo Poland) had 5 children in 1850's and 1860's. If the name is/was rarely used, it could be a start.
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:59 am
Post subject:
John,
Still the point is open. In that situation, trying to help in discovering Frank - Franciszek's beloved place of birth and childhood, and origin of his Polish and Amercan family I've used all my search sources from my analysis 1-10: http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=2045 - wish me luck! =
FAMILY NAME
The nearest would be Przelinski [fully spelled in Polish as Przeliński - n with Polish grammar diacritical mark over the letter]. According to Polish etymological works the old Polish surname Przeliński is noted in Poland from the year 1780, and derived from an old Polish language and word 'przelina' meaning the ground of snow appearing just before the Spring time.
The phonetical equivalent is: Pszelinski [Pszeliński]
FAMILY SURNAME LOCATION
1. According to the indexes of parish records from the 19th century, the Przelinski/Pszelinski appeared mainly in the Raciazek - Slonsk - Plock area, central-north Poland:
http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&rid=B&search_lastname=Przelinski&exac=&from_date=&to_date=&w=02kp
&
http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&rid=S&search_lastname=Przelinski&exac=&from_date=&to_date=&w=02kp
2. According to Polish census 1990:
The town of Sztum/area central-north Poland - 6 adults surnamed Przelinski
The town of Kwidzyn/area central-north Poland - 6 adults surnamed Przelinski
Source:http://www.herby.com.pl/
3. According to old Polish white pages, records from abt y 2000:
# Family Przelinski in Brokowo, central-north Poland
# Family Przelinski in Mirowce, central-north Poland
4. According to Polish internet:
Few person surnamed Przelinski, including Mr Piotr Przelinski, the village mayor of Mirowce central-north Poland:
http://www.mikolajkipomorskie.pl/new/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=101&Itemid=95
From the history of Laskowice [in Germany as Laskowitz] in the Kwidzyn area central-north Poland we can note in 1780 as inhabitant Jan Przelinski:
http://kwidzynopedia.pl/index.php?title=Laskowice
FAMILY ORIGIN
Basing on the a/m results the family origin would be located in the central-northern part of Poland [in the 19th century as Prussia - Germany], in the area of the local towns - from South to North: Gorzno - Lisnowo - Laskowice - Kwidzyn - Sztum - Elblag.
Here is the possible family origin lands view from sattelite, use computer mouse to zoom + and -, see the local roads, rivers, towns, happy virtual journey to this beatiful part of Europe!:
http://wikimapia.org/#lang=pl&lat=53.742214&lon=19.072266&z=9&m=h
John, sorry, I cannot locate the "Sabal" [maybe this is Elbing-Elblag?], please help and obtain Frank's naturalization papers - the best is petition and/or declaration of intention giving the name of the birthplace.
Good luck!
Your, Tad
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 8:52 am
Post subject: Re: Sabal Europe
| starkey76 wrote: | Hello,
I was wondering if there is a place anyone has ever heard called Sabal Europe? I was rechecking some documents, and I saw a birthplace listed as Sabal Europe on this death certificate? At least that's what it looks like to me.
Thanks
John |
John,
Why do you read Sabal? Above the line with "Sabal", you have "Laborer" - the first letter of the place is definitely "L".
I browsed Tad's notes, and his Przeliński's search, suggesting North-East of Poland.
"Labal" does not exist, but you can see on the first "L" page in the old geography book
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_V/49
several suggestions to Łabędź, and various distortions of Łabędź in German (Łabędź = swan).
The following two places are close
Kwidzyn, Poland
Brokowo, Poland
Another two places are very close
Łabędź, kujawsko-pomorskie, Poland
Wąbrzeźno, Poland
The first two Kwidzyn-Brokowo are less than 70 km from Łabędź-Wąbrzeźno.
And Lisnowo is (for a bird) in between Kwidzyn-Brokowo and Łabędź-Wąbrzeźno.
Now, if the Polish name of the village was Łabędź, how it would be recorded by native English speaker? Labal is as good as anything.
NB. Please note there are several other places similar to Łabędź:
Łabędziewo, Poland
Łabędzin, Poland
... etc
Search with http://mapa.szukacz.pl/
for the string
Labe*
shows you a dozen of possible places.
Best,
Elzbieta
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Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:41 am
Post subject:
Bonjour Ela,
Very interesting remark! Yes, village Łabędź is just on the border of Wąbrzeźno local small town and parish. Unfortunately parish Wąbrzeźno is not included in out PTG Polish Genealogical Society "Geneszukacz", and "Metryki", but fortunately one of our collegue Zbyszek has parish Wąbrzeźno indexes from the 19th century, I've just asked him on our PTG forum to check, just to know if it would be this Labedz/Wabrzezno, let's hope...:
http://genealodzy.pl/index.php?name=PNphpBB2&file=viewtopic&p=243581#243581
Cheers!
Tad
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starkey76
Joined: 17 Sep 2013
Replies: 164
Location: Wheeling, WV USABack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:45 pm
Post subject:
Hello,
Thanks everyone. Lots to check out. I'll see about going to WVU and getting the naturalization papers sometime next week, about an hour drive to their library. Tad, the phonetical equivalent is most likely Pszelinski [Pszeliński] or close to it. In the 1898 Wheeling register, John was listed as Pszelenski. That was what opened up many of his alternative names in old records. I was lucky that John(4500 Jacob) and Frank(4340 Wetzel) lived at the their addresses for years, so that by searching by the address only, gave a wealth of information. Still never led to an origin, until I looked at his death again. John supposedly was one of the main founders of St Ladislaw church that opened in 1903, and I contacted the local diocese to see if they have the original records from that church, but haven't heard back yet.
I even checked Frank's will in 1904, which lists his brother John Przelenski and Joseph Turczynski(1866-1918) as guardians of his children after his wife. So that lead to another adventure. Joseph Turczynski's wife was named Mary Sczcepanski(1868-1922), and they married in 1890 in Wheeling. Mary's mother was named Catherine Sczcepanski-Przelenski(1849-1924), and on Katherine's death certificate, guess who signed? John Przelenski, at the same address 4500 Jacob St. I then tracked down the voyage for Katherine in 1889 with her 6 children, but it gives nothing specific besides Germany. Joseph lived houses away from Frank, so maybe they just knew each other, or maybe Joseph's mother-in-law Katherine and John/Frank came from the same place. Then as always, I find something concrete about someone very distantly related, if at all. Joseph Turczinski's parents(Antoni Turczinski and Josephine Kulpa) voyage in 1897, 3rd from bottom, which also happens to list the destination as Wheeling WV, and even his son Joseph and his 4412 Wetzel address. It even says a place of last residence for them as "Garisyka"(at least that's how ancestry lists it). Always how it happens. One day it'll open up for the Przelenski's.
Thanks again
John
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 5:50 pm
Post subject:
| starkey76 wrote: |
Then as always, I find something concrete about someone very distantly related, if at all. Joseph Turczinski's parents(Antoni Turczinski and Josephine Kulpa) voyage in 1897, 3rd from bottom, which also happens to list the destination as Wheeling WV, and even his son Joseph and his 4412 Wetzel address. It even says a place of last residence for them as "Garisyka"(at least that's how ancestry lists it). Always how it happens. One day it'll open up for the Przelenski's.
Thanks again
John |
John,
I believe the village name in 3rd line from the bottom (line 28 Antoni Turczyński) is Raciążek or Raciążko or Raciążka, not "Garisyka".
The first letter is R (it is not B), then straightforward R-aciaz?k?. kujawsko-pomorskie, near Ciechocinek, South of Torun, Prussian partition.
Circa 50 km bird distance from Wąbrzeźno.
Best,
Elzbieta
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Replies: 1762
Location: Joao Pessoa - BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Thu Oct 23, 2014 6:45 pm
Post subject:
Elzbieta and John
Another Turczynski arriving at Ellis lists the place as Greziskis, which I see as close to Garisyka.
Now at a second look I do think the firs letter is G (compare with "german', both underlined in red).
Gilberto
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