ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:27 pm
Post subject: probably not right place to ask but..
Elzbieta and my other PO friends,
I have the opportunity to view microfilm for a large section of years for an ancestral Parish (courtesy of LDS microfilm) I am however not familiar with this older early 1800s-late 1700's format. My question is so far I am having difficulty distingiushing the birth, Marriage and death records. Are there any keywords I should look for to help distinguish these very diffrerent records (they do have different headers in the columns but my familiarity with Polish/Latin is pitiful). I know this is very broad but any help would be appreciated.
Dziekuje,
Hugh
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 5:56 pm
Post subject: Re: probably not right place to ask but..
ossnhughie wrote: | Elzbieta and my other PO friends,
I have the opportunity to view microfilm for a large section of years for an ancestral Parish (courtesy of LDS microfilm) I am however not familiar with this older early 1800s-late 1700's format. My question is so far I am having difficulty distingiushing the birth, Marriage and death records. Are there any keywords I should look for to help distinguish these very diffrerent records (they do have different headers in the columns but my familiarity with Polish/Latin is pitiful). I know this is very broad but any help would be appreciated.
Dziekuje,
Hugh |
Hugh,
Please have a look on information about records from Polish Archives, with many examples of tables.
It is organized by religions (rzymskokatolickie = Roman-Catholic, etc.), examples are "Zobacz przykład" sometimes with numbers.
See item 5, and go to rzymskokatolickie = Roman-Catholic
and item 7 (Latin)
http://www.agad.archiwa.gov.pl/genealogia/poradnik.html
Best,
Elzbieta
|
|
ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 6:58 pm
Post subject: thanks Elzbieta
Elzbieta,
Does it matter than these parishes are in the Wilno Diocese. Would they have used different types of forms then say the area that made up the Congress Kingdom?
Dziekuje,
Hugh
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 3:41 am
Post subject: Re: thanks Elzbieta
ossnhughie wrote: | Elzbieta,
Does it matter than these parishes are in the Wilno Diocese. Would they have used different types of forms then say the area that made up the Congress Kingdom?
Dziekuje,
Hugh |
Hugh,
If records are in Polish, it should be similar to yours, titles attached below:
Baptism:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20943#20943
http://forum.polishorigins.com/files/wincenty_michalkiewicz_1836_baptism_458.jpg
Marriage:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21581#21581
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/marcin_michalkiewicz_marriage_record_560.jpg
Basicaly it is organized in (no, date) column and like free format text in 3 parts/3 columns.
If records are in Latin: it shoud be similar to the attached below titles of tables.
Marriages, key words: Liber copulatorum, Sponsus, Sponsa, Testes
Baptism, key words: Liber natorum, Nomen Infantis, Parentes, Patrini
Death, key words: Liber mortuorum, Nomen Mortui
Basicaly those Latin forms are like today Excel spreadsheets, organized in mandatory fields. Year appears only once, on the top of a page, and month is written only once, when it changes.
If records are very old, 1700s, it is a free format text.
I wish you to suceed. If you can take an exemple snapshot, I could help.
Best,
Elzbieta
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
43.14 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
35.94 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
58.69 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
52.6 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
51.41 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 1:11 pm
Post subject: Re: Oracz +Bryt
zack wrote: | Wielkie podziękowania
Dodaje dwa dodatkowe dokumenty
Miłego dnia
ZACK |
Zack,
Dwa? A nie trzy?
I wanted to put it in Hebrew, but when I copy/paste the right-to-left order of letters, 65432, became left-to-right, 23456, so I gave up.
Best
Elzbieta
==
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/ypbryt_243.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 4 March 1924, 6 pm, in the village Ilza, in late by the fault of a late father
MOTHER: Misia Brytt born Lublinksa, widow, 52 years old, shopkeeper, of the Moses faith, permanent resident of the community Wielka Wies, residing in Wachock
KTO: Icek - Pinkwas Brytt, born 8 November 1906, 10 am, in Wachock
FATHER: Chaskla Mordka Brytt, deceased in Wachock, in 1920
WITNESSES: Jankel Binsztok, tailor, 49 years old, residing in Wachock, and Lejzor-Icek Frydman, shopkeeper, 30 years old, residing in Iłża, both of the Moses faith
N 14 Icek Pinkwas Brytt
Dzialo sie w osadzie Ilza dnia czwartego marca tysiac dziewiecset dwudziestego czwartego roku o godzinie szostej wieczorem. Stawila sie wdowa Masia Brytt urodzona Lublinska, lat piecdziesiat dwa liczaca, handlarka, wyznania mojzeszowego, stala mieszkanka gminy Wielka Wies, zamieszkala w Wachocku, w obecnosci swiadkow Jankla Binsztoka, krawca, lat czterdziesci dziewiec, zamieszkalego w Wachocku, i Lejzora-Icka Frydmana, handlarza, lat trzydziesci, zamieszkalego w Ilzy, obydwoch wyznania mojzeszowego, i okazala nam dziecko plci meskiej, oswiadczajac, ze ono urodzilo sie w Wachocku, dnia osmego listopada tysiac dziewiecset szostego roku, o godzinie dziesiatej rano z niej i jej meza Chaskla Mordki Brytt, zmarlego w Wachocku, w tysiac dziewiecset dwudziestym roku. Dziecku temu nadano imiona Icek – Pinkwas. Akt ten spozniony z winy ojca, przeczytany, przyjety, przez stawajacych, nas i swiadkow podpisany zostal. Matka niepismienna.
Urzednik Stanu Cywilnego (illegible)
Swiadkowie: Jankel Bynstok, L.I. Frydman
NOTE: Consistency check in the bottom: two lines from the main text in very little letters, are repeated, two words crossed out are stated.
Translated:
It did happen in the village Ilza, in the fourth day of March, year one thousand nine hundred and twenty-fourth, at six o'clock in the evening. Appeared in widow Misia Brytt born Lublinksa, fifty-two years old, shopkeeper, of the Moses faith, permanent resident of the community Wielka Wies, residing in Wachock, in the presence of witnesses Jankel Binsztok, tailor, forty-nine years old, residing in Wachock, and Lejzor-Icek Frydman, shopkeeper, thirty years old, residing in Iłża, both of the Moses faith, and presented us a male child, declaring that he was born in Wachock, the eighth day of November year one thousand nine hundred and six, at ten o'clock in the morning, with her and her husband Chaskla Mordka Brytt, deceased in Wachock, in year one thousand nine hundred twenty. The child has been given the names of Icek - Pinkwas. This act in late by the fault of father, was read, approved by the present, by us and witnesses was signed. Mother illiterate.
Civil servant Civil Status (illegible)
Witnesses: Jankel Bynstok, L.I. Frydman
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/joracz_153.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 17 August 1926, 12:00 noon, in the city Iłża
FATHER: Abram Mendel Oracz, laborer, 57 years old, of the Moses faith, resident in Wachock, and belonging [permanent resident] to the city Iłża
MOTHER: Esther Szandla, born Bryt, his wife
KTO: Mordek Oracz, born 28 May 1909, 4 pm, in Wachock
WITNESSES: Abram Rapaport, merchant, 58 years old, and Moszek Gotlib, worker, 26 years old, both the Moses faith, residents in Iłża
N 66 Mordeka Oracz miasto Ilza
Dzialo sie w miescie Ilzy dnia siedemnastego sierpnia tysiac dziewiecset dwudziestego szostego roku o godzinie dwunastej w poludnie. Stawil sie Abram Mendel Oracz, robotnik lat piecdziesiat siedem majacy, wyznania mojzeszowego, zamieszkaly w Wachocku, a przynalezny do miasta Ilzy, i w obecnosci swiadkow Abrama Rapaporta, kupca, lat piecdziesiat osiem, i Moszka Gotliba, robotnika lat dwadziescia szesc liczacych, obydwoch wyznania mojzeszowego, zamieszkalych w Ilzy, okazal nam osobnika plci meskiej, oswiadczajac, ze on urodzil sie w Wachocku dnia dwudziestego osmego maja tysiac dziewiecset dziewiatego roku o godzinie czwartej po poludniu, z zony jego Estery Szandli urodzonej Bryt. Dziecku temu przy obrzezaniu nadano imie Mordeka. Akt ten spozniony z winy ojca, przeczytany, przyjety, przez stawajacych, nas i swiadkow podpisany zostal. Ojciec dziecka niepismienny.
Urzednik Stanu Cywilnego (illegible)
Swiadkowie: Gotlib Moszek, Abram Rapaport
Translated:
It did happen in the city Iłża in the seventeenth day of August, year one thousand nine hundred and twenty-six, at twelve o'clock at noon. Appeared in Abram Mendel Oracz, laborer, fifty seven years old, of the Moses faith, resident in Wachock, and belonging [permanent resident] to the city Iłża, and in the presence of witnesses Abram Rapaport, merchant, fifty-eight years old, and Moszek Gotlib, worker, twenty-six years old, both the Moses faith, residents in Iłża, presented us a male person, declaring that he was born in Wachock on the twenty-eighth day of May year one thousand nine hundred and ninth, at four o’clock in the afternoon, with his wife Esther Szandla, born Bryt. The child has been given the name Mordek, over the circumcision. This act in late by the fault of father, was read, approved by the presents, by us and witnesses was signed. The child's father is illiterate.
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/szoracz_679.jpg
DATE-of-ACT: 16 November 1919, 10 am, in the village Ilza
WITNESSES: [Starozakonny] old religous Israel Leib Samet, bookbinder, 59 years old, and Izral Wajnberg, singer, 55 years old, residing in Ilza
KTO: [Starozakonny] old religious Szlama Zelman Oracz died 15 November 1919, 7 am, carter, 56 years old, residing in Ilza
PARENTS: son of Pinkwas and Fajga Gitla born Bryt, spouses Oracz,
N 33 Szlama Zelman Oracz Ilza
Dzialo sie w osadzie Ilza dnia szesnastego listopada tysiac dziewiecset dziewietnastego roku o godzinie dziesiatej rano. Stawili sie Starozakonni Izrael Lejb Samet, introligator lat piecdziesiat dziewiec, i Izral Wajnberg, spiewak lat piecdziesiat piec liczacy, w osadzie Ilza zamieszkali, i oswiadczyli, ze w dniu wczorajszym o godzinie siodmej rano umarl Starozakonny Szlama Zelman Oracz, furman, lat piecdziesiat szesc liczacy, syn Pinkwasa i Fajgi Gitli z Brytow, malzonkow Oraczow, w osadzie Ilza zamieszkaly. Po przekonaniu sie naocznie o zejsciu Starozakonnego Szlamy Zelmana Oracz. Akt ten stawajacym przeczytany, przez nich i przez nas podpisany.
Utrzymujacy akta (illegible)
Translated:
It did happen in the village Ilza, in the sixteenth day of November, year one thousand nine hundred and nineteenth, at ten o'clock in the morning. Appeared in [Starozakonny] old religous Israel Leib Samet, bookbinder, fifty nine years old, and Izral Wajnberg, singer, fifty-five years old, residing in Ilza, and stated that yesterday at seven o'clock in the morning died [Starozakonny] old religious Szlama Zelman Oracz, carter, fifty-six years old, son of Pinkwas and Fajga Gitla born Bryt, spouses Oracz, residing in Ilza. After visual conviction that [Starozakonny] Szlama Zelman Oracz passed away. This act was read to the presnets, by them and by us was signed.
==
|
|
ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:43 pm
Post subject: Marcin Michalkiewicz 1810 birth/baptismal record?
Dear Elzbieta,
i was using your examples and whilst I was at the LDS center I think I found many potential Polish records in the Suderwa Parish. This one for example I am pretty sure is my ancestor Marcin Michalkiewicz's birth record on his 1831 marriage record from the same parish it lists him as 20 years old which inst far of from 1810 not to mention in scanning the birth records on the film he was the only Marcin I saw born to Tomasz and Marianna (it doesn't say her name although it should be Niewiadomska in theory). Please tell me if you agree. Unfortunately the microfilm copier war broken so i took a digital photo hopefully you can read it it should be the 7th record down.
Thanks in advance,
Hugh
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
698.99 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 8:52 pm
Post subject: possible marriage record Wincenty Subotowicz and Marianna
Elzbieta,
This one is again a digital photo so hopefully the quality is good enough for you to decipher, but I am fairly certain this is the 1803 marriage record of my direct ancestors Wincenty Subotowicz and Marianna Maximowicz. It is the 3rd entry from the top.
Dziekuje,
Hugh
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
592.3 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:15 pm
Post subject: possible Tomasz Michalkiewicz Marriage record
Elzbieta,
This one is the one I am least sure if it is the right people. The facts I have from your translation of Marcin Michalkiewicz's 1831 Marriage record list him as 20 years old and his parents as Tomasz and Marianna Nee Niewiadomski. This record has a Tomasz Michalkiewicz as the groom (the only Tomasz Michalkiewicz I could find from 1802 to 1818 Suderwa marriage books) Although Marcin's marriage record lists him as the son of Legally Married Peasants Tomasz and Marianna nee Niewiadomski. The record seems to fit The name Tomasz Michalkiewicz is clear however Marianna's name doesn't seem to resemble Newiadomski at all (at least to my eyes). It could be that Tomasz was married before this books dates although if Marcin was one of his early children this date of marriage makes sense. I'll see what you translate and think.
The entry in question is the 3rd from the bottom.
Dziekuje,
Hugh
Description: |
|
Filesize: |
732.01 KB |
Viewed: |
7922 Time(s) |
|
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
nercellPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 21 Aug 2014
Replies: 287
Back to top |
Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 9:55 pm
Post subject: Re: Kryski blurb and Jan Tylicki witness in Chodupka
nercell wrote: |
Elzbieta,
...I did find this blurb on the paid site...I was able to translate everything but the part following Bońkowskiego....***would you please tranlslate ?
Jan Kryski , podstoli ciechanowski 1654 r. pozostawił córkę Zofię, żonę Ludwika Buńkowskiego (Bońkowskiego), która sprzedała 1670 r. część swoją na Krysku (M. 210 f. 71)... |
Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote: |
Nancy,
...A perfect example of approximate age in those old records: Malgorzata 80 years old in 1815, 76 in 1811 (marriage of her daughter 23 years old), that implies mother at 53. Without IVF?
|
Hi Elzbieta,
Thanks, that was a bonus finding a 4th g grandmother's death certificate w/o even realizing it !
It would be interesting to find Malgortza's birth certificate to discover her true age. I have some family members that aged only 5 years in a ten year span and others who have aged ten years in 5 years. Still, it gives us a general idea of a time frame in which to search.
If you could give a shot at the Kryski blurb noted in the above quote?
As always,
Appreciated,
Nancy
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 2:14 am
Post subject: Re: Kryski blurb and Jan Tylicki witness in Chodupka
nercell wrote: | nercell wrote: |
Elzbieta,
...I did find this blurb on the paid site...I was able to translate everything but the part following Bońkowskiego....***would you please tranlslate ?
Jan Kryski , podstoli ciechanowski 1654 r. pozostawił córkę Zofię, żonę Ludwika Buńkowskiego (Bońkowskiego), która sprzedała 1670 r. część swoją na Krysku (M. 210 f. 71)... |
Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote: |
Nancy,
...A perfect example of approximate age in those old records: Malgorzata 80 years old in 1815, 76 in 1811 (marriage of her daughter 23 years old), that implies mother at 53. Without IVF?
|
Hi Elzbieta,
Thanks, that was a bonus finding a 4th g grandmother's death certificate w/o even realizing it !
It would be interesting to find Malgortza's birth certificate to discover her true age. I have some family members that aged only 5 years in a ten year span and others who have aged ten years in 5 years. Still, it gives us a general idea of a time frame in which to search.
If you could give a shot at the Kryski blurb noted in the above quote?
As always,
Appreciated,
Nancy |
Nancy,
There is so many messages, you did not see it, or forgot, or software bug?
I already answered Kryski, on May 13.
http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=21570#21570
Re: approximate age
I recall two records in a row, first a marriage, then groom's mother death: groom's age increased by 14 years within one month.
I wish you will find her true age.
Best,
Elzbieta
==
Software bug?
While I use "Notify me when a reply is posted", it happens that from time to time I am not notified.
==
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 6:43 am
Post subject: Re: Marcin Michalkiewicz 1810 birth/baptismal record?
ossnhughie wrote: | Dear Elzbieta,
i was using your examples and whilst I was at the LDS center I think I found many potential Polish records in the Suderwa Parish. This one for example I am pretty sure is my ancestor Marcin Michalkiewicz's birth record on his 1831 marriage record from the same parish it lists him as 20 years old which inst far of from 1810 not to mention in scanning the birth records on the film he was the only Marcin I saw born to Tomasz and Marianna (it doesn't say her name although it should be Niewiadomska in theory). Please tell me if you agree. Unfortunately the microfilm copier war broken so i took a digital photo hopefully you can read it it should be the 7th record down.
Thanks in advance,
Hugh |
Hugh,
Congratulations!
I took headings of your tables, added transcript and translation.
Later today, I will translate your records.
Best,
Elzbieta
==
Description: |
|
Download |
Filename: |
PolishTables-marriage-birth-Suderwa-Wilno-1805.pdf |
Filesize: |
77.13 KB |
Downloaded: |
682 Time(s) |
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:14 pm
Post subject: Re: Marcin Michalkiewicz 1810 birth/baptismal record?
ossnhughie wrote: | Dear Elzbieta,
i was using your examples and whilst I was at the LDS center I think I found many potential Polish records in the Suderwa Parish. This one for example I am pretty sure is my ancestor Marcin Michalkiewicz's birth record on his 1831 marriage record from the same parish it lists him as 20 years old which inst far of from 1810 not to mention in scanning the birth records on the film he was the only Marcin I saw born to Tomasz and Marianna (it doesn't say her name although it should be Niewiadomska in theory). Please tell me if you agree. Unfortunately the microfilm copier war broken so i took a digital photo hopefully you can read it it should be the 7th record down.
Thanks in advance,
Hugh |
Hugh,
Here it is.
Actually very little information, no maiden name, no age of parents, no village names (I suppose they consider that only important name is parish name).
Here is the birth record.
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/marcin_michalkiewicz_1810_birth_register_suderwa_204.jpg
cf. http://polishorigins.com/forum/download.php?id=7077
7-columns birth table, PolishTables-marriage-birth-Suderwa-Wilno-1805.pdf
The 7 th entry from the top.
C1: Mieysce Urodzenia wieś lub miasto: Place of birth, village or town: Komaryszki
NOTE: Komaryszki is south-west of Suderwa, over the river Wilja
C2: Czas Urodzenia: Time [date] of birth: 22 October 1810
NOTE: year number shall be on one of former pages, in the first record “pazdz. (pazdziernik)”, October, is reported for both columns, birth and baptism
C3: Czas Ochrzczenia: Time [date] of baptism: 26 October 1810
C4: Imię Ochrzczonego: Name of baptized: Marcin
C5: Imię i stan Rodziców Ochrzczonego: Name and status of parents of the baptized: [syn] Tomasza i Maryanny Michałkiewiczów, prawowit. (prawowitych małzonków): son of Tomasz and Maryanna spouses Michałkiewicz, legitimate spouses
C6: Imię Chrzczącego: Name of celebrating baptism: X. Tom. (Tomasz) Szydłowski: priest Tomasz Szydłowski
C7: Imiona kmotrów trzymających: Names of sponsors holding [the baptized]: Józef Lipniewicz z Teresą Mikołaionkową: Józef Lipniewicz and Teresa Mikołaionek (or Mikołaionka)
NOTE: C7=Godparents
SUMMARY:
DATE-of-ACT: 26 October 1810, in Suderwa
FATHER: Tomasz Michałkiewicz [no age, no other information given]
MOTHER: Maryanna spouse Michałkiewicz, legitimate spouse [no age, no maiden name given]
KTO: Marcin Michałkiewicz born 22 October 1810, in Komaryszki, parish Suderwa
GODPARENTS: Józef Lipniewicz and Teresa Mikołaionek (or Mikołaionka)
==
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:19 pm
Post subject: Re: possible marriage record Wincenty Subotowicz and Mariann
ossnhughie wrote: | Elzbieta,
This one is again a digital photo so hopefully the quality is good enough for you to decipher, but I am fairly certain this is the 1803 marriage record of my direct ancestors Wincenty Subotowicz and Marianna Maximowicz. It is the 3rd entry from the top.
Dziekuje,
Hugh |
Hugh,
Here it is. I trust the year you provided is correct.
I am very frustrated with this record. No age, no maiden name, no parents names, and what does it mean: the name of village the newlywed will reside, when you do not know where do they come from?
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/wincenty_and_marianna_maximowicz_marriage_1803_101.jpg
cf. http://polishorigins.com/forum/download.php?id=7077
5-columns marriage table, PolishTables-marriage-birth-Suderwa-Wilno-1805.pdf
The 3 rd entry from the top
C1: Mieysce mieszkania Nowożeńców: Place of residence of newlyweds: Dombrowiszki wieś
NOTE: Village Dąbrowciszki. Other names: Dobrowciszki Dombrowciszki
C2: Miejsce y dzień szlubu: Place and date of marriage: 15 November 1803
C3: Imiona Zaszlubionych: Names of newlyweds: Wincenty Subotowicz, wdowiec, z Maryanną Maximowiczówną, dziewką: Wincenty Sobotowicz, widow, and Maryanna Maximowicz, Miss
C4: Imię Kapłana dającego szlub: Name of Priest celebrating marriage: X. Stanisław Wilczewski
C5: Imiona świadków szlubnych: Names of marriage’s witnesses: Jan Gulbinowicz, Tomasz Michałkiewicz, Mikolaj Lubiszewicz
SUMMARY:
MARRIAGE: 15 November 1803, in Suderwa
GROOM: Wincenty Sobotowicz, widow [no age, no other information given]
GROOM-PARENTS:
BRIDE: Maryanna Maximowicz, Miss [no age, no other information given]
BRIDE-PARENTS:
WITNESSES: Jan Gulbinowicz, Tomasz Michałkiewicz, Mikolaj Lubiszewicz
==
|
|
Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 12:27 pm
Post subject: Re: possible Tomasz Michalkiewicz Marriage record
ossnhughie wrote: | Elzbieta,
This one is the one I am least sure if it is the right people. The facts I have from your translation of Marcin Michalkiewicz's 1831 Marriage record list him as 20 years old and his parents as Tomasz and Marianna Nee Niewiadomski. This record has a Tomasz Michalkiewicz as the groom (the only Tomasz Michalkiewicz I could find from 1802 to 1818 Suderwa marriage books) Although Marcin's marriage record lists him as the son of Legally Married Peasants Tomasz and Marianna nee Niewiadomski. The record seems to fit The name Tomasz Michalkiewicz is clear however Marianna's name doesn't seem to resemble Newiadomski at all (at least to my eyes). It could be that Tomasz was married before this books dates although if Marcin was one of his early children this date of marriage makes sense. I'll see what you translate and think.
The entry in question is the 3rd from the bottom.
Dziekuje,
Hugh |
Hugh,
The last one is not any better ... She is widow, and we do not know neither her maiden name, neither her age, neither parents, neither when her husband passed away.
Incidently, I spent quite a long while on this record trying to recoved the village name (folded page), where they intend to live, but no success. The list of all parishes in Wilno diocesis
http://www.mem.net.pl/stg/diecezjawilenska1744p.htm
Best,
Elzbieta
==
==PO202:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/tomasz_michalkiewicz_possible_marriage_record_203.jpg
cf. http://polishorigins.com/forum/download.php?id=7077
5-columns marriage table, PolishTables-marriage-birth-Suderwa-Wilno-1805.pdf
The 3rd entry from the bottom. Year: 1805
C1: Mieysce mieszkania Nowożeńców: Place of residence of newlyweds: ?durańcy wieś
C2: Miejsce y dzień szlubu: Place and date of marriage: 29 October 1805
C3: Imiona Zaszlubionych: Names of newlyweds: Tomasz Michałkiewicz, mlodzian, Maryanna Brokiowa?, wdowa: Tomasz Michałkiewicz, young man, Maryanna Broki, widow Broki
C4: Imię Kapłana dającego szlub: Name of Priest celebrating marriage: X. Stanisław Wilczewski
C5: Imiona świadków szlubnych: Names of marriage’s witnesses: Jakub Makutenowicz, Maciej Michałkiewicz, Jan Sobotowicz
SUMMARY:
MARRIAGE: 29 October 1805, in Suderwa
GROOM: Tomasz Michałkiewicz, young man [no age, no other information given]
GROOM-PARENTS:
BRIDE: Maryanna Broki, widow Broki [no age, no other information given]
BRIDE-PARENTS:
WITNESSES: Jakub Makutenowicz, Maciej Michałkiewicz, Jan Sobotowicz
==
|
|
ossnhughiePO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 19 Sep 2010
Replies: 354
Location: Massachusetts, USABack to top |
Posted: Wed May 27, 2015 5:04 pm
Post subject: Tomasz marriage record
Elzbieta,
One could presume then based on Marcin's 1831 marrage record you translated for me that Maryanna Broki was probably Maryanna Niewiadomski? I'll look for a Maryanna in the same microfilm to see if there is a marriage of a man named Broki to a woman named Marryanna Niewiadomski. Given the age that seems to make the most sense to me.
_________________ Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.
|
|
|
|