Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 4:32 pm
Post subject:
Bob,
Dave,
Jumping into conversation re: Magdalena Rymszayté
Rymsza records, at least those I could see, are from Sejny region, Lithuanian part, so here we may have typical Lithuanian feminine endings - similar to Polish -owna.
Such is a case of -ytė, cf.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithuanian_name
Best,
Elzbieta
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Posted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 6:22 pm
Post subject: Name Ending
Thank you Elzbieta. As usual you are AWESOME!!!!
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HELENAWOJTCZAKPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 06 Aug 2015
Replies: 158
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 12:57 am
Post subject:
Hi folks... looking for a Latin scholar. I am trying to establish if Cecylia was a widow, divorcee (unlikely) or a single when she married. I've only been sent this snippet of a marriage record, apparently the words underlined are about her. Can anyone help please? Is it you, Elzbieta, who also does the Polish translations? Wow, what a lady!
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2783
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:35 pm
Post subject: 1695 Baptism of Stanislaw Bonkowski
Nancy,
Since it is prime tomato canning season the back burner had to be cleared for tomatoes so here is the 1695 Bonkowski birth record. The child is Stanislaw and the father is Mateusz of the Puscz branch. Here it is.
Dave
Latin text: Bonkowo Podlesne
Anno quo supra die prima Maij Ego Joannes ???ziewski illegible title baptisavi filium nomine Stanislaum nobilium* Mathaei Bonkowski de Puscz et Annae consortis eius legittimorum conjugum levantes** fuere famatus*** Alberts Puniewski(?) cum nobili* Tr??ska.
Translation: (The village of) Bonkowo Podlesne
In the year which (is entered) above, on the first day of May, I, Jan ???ziewski, illegible title, baptized the son by the name of Stanislaw of the legitimate marriage of the nobles Mateusz Bonkowski of Puscz and of Anna, his consort. Those lifting (him) up** were the renowned*** Albert Puniewski(?) with the noble Tr??ska.
Notes: *Nobilis/noble: owner or leaseholder of a land parcel
**levantes/those lifting up: circumlocution for sponsors
***famatus/renowned: adjective to denote a middle class craftsman
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2783
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:12 pm
Post subject: For Helena
Helena,
If you can't find a Latin scholar will a former Latin teacher be O.K.?
Actually the notation you posted is something which the Catholic Church began to require in the late 19th Century as a response to social change. Although individuals migrated for centuries, the late 19th Century saw migrations within countries as well as between countries within Europe as well as large scale emigration and immigration particularly to the Americas and to Australia. Prior to that time people usually tended to stay close to home. The publication of marriage banns was effective in discovering impediments to marriage since members of a parish tended to know each other well---often from birth. The notation of marriage entered into the baptismal register was meant to serve as a back up to the banns. After the notation had been entered in the baptismal register each time a birth/baptism certificate was issued from that time forward the marriage notation would appear on the certificate. How effective the notion was in keeping less than upstanding individuals from leaving an unhappy marriage behind and starting a new family elsewhere is a whole different topic. Anyway, the priest who blessed a marriage was supposed to send notification to the pastor of the parish where the individual was baptized and the pastor of that parish was supposed to enter the info into the baptismal register. That is what happened in Cecylia's case.
You can have moral certitude that she had not been divorced prior to this marriage. The record does not state whether she was a maiden or a widow at the time of this marriage. Sometimes the notation would indicate that the individual had been widowed, but certainly not always. Since there was generally not much space in the baptismal register for the notation, it was usually quite brief.
I'm not certain of the date of her marriage since I can't see the numbers clearly.
Anyway, here is the notation.
Dave
Latin: Caecilia iniit matrimonium cum Ign(atio) Szule in Ostrzeszow 28.4.1912(?)
Translation: Cecylia entered into marriage with Ignacy Szule in Ostrzeszow on April 28, 1912(?)
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2783
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:25 pm
Post subject: Suffix -yte
Elzbieta,
Thanks for providing the information regarding the suffix for Bob. I surmised that it was a regional usage and since I'm not really familiar with records from what was the Grand Duchy during the days of the Commonwealth, I was going to suggest to Bob that he seek your input.
Thanks,
Dave
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2783
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:28 pm
Post subject: Upcoming Translations
The translations for Beth and for Bob will be coming soon----as time allows in between harvesting and preserving garden produce.
Dave
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HELENAWOJTCZAKPolishOrigins Patron
Joined: 06 Aug 2015
Replies: 158
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Posted: Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:39 pm
Post subject: Re: For Helena
| dnowicki wrote: | Helena,
If you can't find a Latin scholar will a former Latin teacher be O.K.?
Latin: Caecilia iniit matrimonium cum Ign(atio) Szule in Ostrzeszow 28.4.1912(?)
Translation: Cecylia entered into marriage with Ignacy Szule in Ostrzeszow on April 28, 1912(?) |
Hello Dave... and a huge thank you for the valuable information about marriage records, banns etc.
I sent you that tiny clipping because it's all a (paid) genealogist provided, a few years ago, when carrying out a complete family history for English people of Polish heritage. Now that records have gone online, I thought I'd carry on and see if I could find anything more.
What I found was, this same lady Cecylia marrying someone else in 1910. It's definitely her, since the record names both her parents, her birthplace etc. So I started wondering about the second marriage and if it had said she was a widow that would have cleared up this line of enquiry.
Many thanks once again!
Helena
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 8:25 am
Post subject: Posts
Dave:
No problem. These folks have been dead for a long time so there's no pressing need. Those maters have priority. 
BR
Bob
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:46 pm
Post subject: Kelmes birth records
Dave:
Not trying to pile on the records; just staying in line. Will do them one at a time so you don't have to do all at once.
Something interesting from this record. Although I believe this is Franciszek and his brother Bartlomiej, this is the first time (in this book anyway) that I have seen the surname Rymsza written as Rymszewicz. I have read that Rymszewicz is a "Polandization" of the name Rymsza. I have also seen this, around this same time period, in other towns. Although many Rymsza families resisted the temptation to change their surname my question is for you, or anyone else who knows the answer, is did the priest have the freedom to make the changes to a surname in his writing during this time period?
Bob
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Last edited by brymsza on Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:47 pm
Post subject: Kelmes birth records
More birth records
Thanks
Bob
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 12:49 pm
Post subject: Kelmes birth records
Yet another record from 1778
Thanks
Bob
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:01 pm
Post subject: Kelmes birth records
Kelmes birth record 1780
Dave, I had to manipulate this image to make it more readable. If you would like the original please let me know.
Bob
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Posted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 1:03 pm
Post subject: Kelmes birth records
Kelmes birth record 1781
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EANWhitsonPO Top Contributor
Joined: 18 Apr 2012
Replies: 370
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Posted: Fri Sep 04, 2015 1:40 pm
Post subject:
Hi Dave!
The Christmann family is back! Lol! I reordered the Microfilm from Walschbronne now that I have learned more of the family. Attached are deaths for Antoine Christmann and his son Joannes Christmann. I had the dates already, but did not have the original copies, so would like these translated. Not only that, but with PO being such a big source of translations for this particular family, I wanted to make sure they are here for posterity.
I know that the Christman, Joannes record's year looks strange, but I went forward when I found it to get the right year. 1705.
I have found other Latin records that I believe go with the family and it's branches, but need to go through those first to make sure that they are needed or that we haven't already had them translated already.
In the meantime, thank you!
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