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ossnhughie
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Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2016 12:36 am Post subject: help in looking at Polish documents

Greetings my PO freinds,

I have a favor to ask someone who can read Polish and has the time to look through these online DjVu documents from the kresy.genealodzy website. These three lists I found on the website are in Polish and have to do with nobility from the Kowno area, I believe they are lists fro the General Sejm amongst other records. I recently found a line of my family goes back to Zejmy (Zeimiai) which is just north of Kowno. T

he earliest records from the Zejmy catholic church I have found thus far is the 1822 marriage record of Bartlomiej Dowiatt and Aniela Romanowska (born about 1797 and 1802 respectively). I know from a parish census that Aniela's fathers name was Michal Romanowski but other then that have no other names to go on.

So I would like to enlist the help of you the PO community in finding potential Romanowski's and Dowiat(t)s on these lists. As I have said you will need the DjVu viewer or browser to view them. These 3 lists are not particularly long however being that my comprehension of Polish is limited your help would be most welcome.

Here They are:

1. Wypis z Ksiag Ziemskich powiatu Kowienskiego z 11 Stycznia 1784 Rok.
http://kresy.genealodzy.pl/zbior/wypis_k_kow/dir.djvu

2. Wybor delegatow na sejm walny w Kownie 02-10-1786
http://kresy.genealodzy.pl/zbior/wybor_del_kowna1786/dir.djvu

**I believe on the above 1786 list I might have found two potential ancestors
*on page 5: Piotr Dowiatt (3rd from bottom right column)
*on page 8: Michal Romanowski (12th up from bottom right column)

3. Wota sekrete W. Michala Mackiewicza nazwiska glosujacej szlachty 08-02-1800 rok.
http://kresy.genealodzy.pl/zbior/wota_mackiewicza/dir.djvu

It is my hope to find a number of Dowiatts or Romanowski's on the lists so as to establish there settlement here before the partitions and in the hope of finding more records.

Thank you for your consideration.

Sincerely,

Hugh
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sirdan
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 7:36 am Post subject:

Hugh, do you contact with lithuanian people as well as you do with polish? Im sure joining forces will put wider look on origins. Some people on lithuanian side interest in Dowiatts too (Daujotu) https://www.myheritage.lt/site-family-tree-173954901/bajor%C5%B3-dowiatt-gimin%C4s-svetain%C4?familyTreeID=10 Dowiatts are called Bojar there (lithuanian nobles). No Romanowski in tree but you mght compare random people, like Piotr Dowiatt for example, which is in the tree.

This is nice that higly possible is that whole family come from medieval duke https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daujotas XII-XIII century!

Edit: Here is a document with Romanowski and Dowiatt surnames. Looks like Ignacy Dowiatt (or his man) did some harm to Józef Zabiełła (property?) Michał Romanowski is a witness? besedka.rossiaforum.com/t14-topic

ossnhughie
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Posted: Sat Apr 23, 2016 11:05 am Post subject: Sirdan thank you,

I will have to check this out, and that would be something if I was somehow related to an old Lithuanian Royal family. My researcher in Vilnius Agata actually found my branch of the Dowiatts from the 1818 noble census, and is currently looking for the Romanowski family also. According to Agata's translation of the document my Dowiatts in 1818 consisted of
Jozef Dowiatt aged 55
Ewa (Okmianska) aged 43 his wife
Also there 3 sons
1. Jakub aged 17
2. Bartlomiej aged 15
3. Adam aged 8

Also Andrzej Dowiatt aged 38, single
(Jozef's brother)

Interesting to note Sirdan, that this 1818 census says that in 1795 Jozef resided in the Wiłkomierz uyezd in the Setos Parish, Bojariszki area. However on the 1818 census they were settled in Kaunas uyezd in the parish of Zejmy in the village of Swolkienie.

Well I'll definitely broaden my horizon to Lithuanian genealogy circles as well.

Hugh
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sirdan
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 8:22 am Post subject: Re: Sirdan thank you,

ossnhughie wrote:

According to Agata's translation of the document my Dowiatts in 1818 consisted of
Jozef Dowiatt aged 55
Ewa (Okmianska) aged 43 his wife
Also there 3 sons
1. Jakub aged 17
2. Bartlomiej aged 15
3. Adam aged 8

Also Andrzej Dowiatt aged 38, single
(Jozef's brother)

Interesting to note Sirdan, that this 1818 census says that in 1795 Jozef resided in the Wiłkomierz uyezd in the Setos Parish, Bojariszki area. However on the 1818 census they were settled in Kaunas uyezd in the parish of Zejmy in the village of Swolkienie.

According to this master thesis http://pbc.biaman.pl/Content/27402/Dekanat%20wi%C5%82komierski%20z%201784%20Komosa.pdf which is based on document from 1784y and many other Lithuanian sources, the nobleman Józef Okmiański is one of the owner of the Juszkańce village in Szaty parish (Setos). So, i would look for marriage record of Józef Dowiatt and Ewa Okmiańska in Szaty parish! Old polish tradition is that marriage happen in the parish of the bride. According to the same source, the village Wigie in same parish (Szaty) is owned by Dowiat.. So, it is high possible that it is your branch of Dowiatt. PDF contains links to the original sources.
I cannot locate Juszkańce village, because other sources say its located near Mejszagoła village...

sirdan
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject:

Check out these scans http://www.epaveldas.lt/vbspi/biRecord.do?biRecordId=29827 theese are records of Szaty parish 1723-1784. One example of interesting record is #257. At Juszkańce village is mentioned Józef Okmiański and Konstancja Dowiatowa. Cannot decipher record, they might be just godparents.
#256 record contains Michał Dowiat and Helena Dowiat, look at underlined Wigie village.

There is also a chance to find Ewa Okmiańska babtism record.

ossnhughie
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 3:10 pm Post subject: Sirdan, Thank you

Sirdan,

Thank you for the really unique information, and I know those old Latin records can be tricky to read. It seems to me to make sense that my ancestors from the Okmianska and Dowiatt families would be from Szaty given the traditions of those days. I will certainly look through the records piece by piece (there's lots of years to cover) I am thinking that miss Aniela Romanowski who married Bartlomiej Dowiat in Szaty Parish (Aniels also came from Szlachta family) might have been from another area altogether.

Again many thanks for the resources and tips.

Hugh
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Litwo! Ojczyzno moja! ty jesteś jak zdrowie;
Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.

sirdan
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject:

One more thing. Only Romanowski mentioned in Master thesis is one from Koczany village In parish Szaty. Just to mention.

And here it is - on record #251 (p.249) is Heva (Ewa) Anna Okmiańska, born 22 of january 1778, daughter of Józef Okmiański and Anna Niemirówna. Can somebody verify this? I feel that we are very close.

ossnhughie
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Posted: Thu May 05, 2016 5:12 pm Post subject: Thanks sirdan

I looked at it myself definately says Hevaw or Heva which is according to online latin source a way Eve or Ewa was spelled. Now this given her age of 43 in the 1816 census (in which ages were usually not accurate) puts her birth at about 1773. Given the evidence and closeness of age, I'd say this is my 5th great grandmother (or is it fourth?)

Will keep looking and submit this to the Latin translation thread for verification.

Hugh
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Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.

ossnhughie
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: sirdan a urgently neeed opinion of yours

Whilst skimming through the records from Szaty I found two records from 1864 and 1866 respectively. They appear to be baptism records of a Bartlomiej Dowjat and in 1866 a Jozef Mateusz they both seemingly have the same father a Michal Dowjat anlthough they have different mothers. The first mother is Rosalia and the second mother is Constantja.

My main question is do you think that the Dowjat surname is the same as Dowaitt (either a mispelling or variation) or is this more then likely a different family then my ancestors?

Also attached are images of the respective pages.

Bartlomiej Dowjat is the 2nd entry down on the left column (die 19 Aug)

Jozef Dowjat is the 7th entry down for September (7ber) (Die 16)

Hugh

Jozef Dowiat (Dowjat) 1866 baptism record pg 192.jpeg

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Jozef Dowiat (Dowjat) 1866 baptism record pg 192.jpeg

possible Barlomiej so of Michael Dowiat (Dowjat) pg 182.jpeg

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possible Barlomiej so of Michael Dowiat (Dowjat) pg 182.jpeg

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sirdan
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 3:47 pm Post subject:

HI Hugh, im happy you found Józef and more Dowiatts! No need to start multiply threads with same question. Simple answer is that Dowiatt, Dowjat and Dowiat are variations of same Surname.
Longer explanation: Letters j and i are different in pronounciation in English. But in Polish language, when used in the middle of the word are very similar. Especially for the new priest who never seen such name, he could hardly distinguish between the two for the first time. Adding to that, in that time, rules of grammar was not so consistent, thats why there are so many variant of names through the time.

Józef or his father Michael is probably one of the owners of the Village Wigie, mentioned in the master Thesis, he must be that unnamed Dowiatt. He was the owner in 1784. Im sure you found record of Józef in 1766, not in 1866?

Lets back to the record #256, Helen was born, dauther of MIchael, sister of Józef? Children might have had different mothers if one died in the meantime. Marriage and death records would be helpful.

More records from Szaty parish here http://www.epaveldas.lt/home simply write setos to the field and click search.. happy digging!

ossnhughie
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Posted: Sun May 08, 2016 11:23 pm Post subject: Sirdan also of interest in records

Sirdan,

Your bolt from the blue the other day has in these few days led to a whole slew of finds (And Iam still looking) I submitted the copied images of the records to Dave over in the Latin translations. He is quite familiar with not only the language but abbreviations as well. So I have so far found Michal's children most by Konstancja except the first Bartlomiej. 6 children so far and I still ahve to search after 1779 and between 1773 and 1779.

One thing that hopefully Dave can translate will prove your theory from the research paper correct. All the childrens record make mention of Wigie with some words in front of it. perhaps conotating ownership?? They are listed as (GD) in the records which I am to understand means Generosi Dominae and type of nobility distinction.

Anyway I will keep you appraised, since it must please you to have been such help, this was a thread I was affraid was dead, but becuase of your help it has arisen like Lazarus.

Hugh
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Ile cię trzeba cenić, ten tylko się dowie, Kto cię stracił.

sirdan
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 3:19 am Post subject:

Hi Hugh, its always pleasure to read what progress was made after long time searching. There is possibility to find even older information, but not so consistent because lack of parish records.
My personal belief is that Daujotas is an old Lithuanian family, that part of it was polinized after Union. In xvii or xviii century under Commonwelth, according to loose grammar rules, surname might be written in documents as Dovyat or Dowyat. Later Dowiad is possible too (possible grammar error). Here: http://etalpykla.lituanistikadb.lt/fedora/objects/LT-LDB-0001:J.04~2014~1450108829835/datastreams/DS.002.0.01.ARTIC/content in the english section of the document is the matrix of translation Lithuanian names ito Polish. Dau-jot can be transliterated into even more variations.
General, short but informative writing about Lithuanian Nobles is here http://www.almanachdegotha.org/id217.html

When you finish with babtism/birth records (gimimo) the you can check other marriage records (santuokos) and death (mirties) ones. But they are not so old on epaveldas as births.
Finally, since Dowiat was Pan in Wigie village, you can check out documents in Kielce Archive about Wigie village that covers quite nice period 1623-1917. These are Klimontowicz family documents (he was the other Pan in Wigie) but these are properties documents, so big chance that Klimontowicz had some in common with Dowiatt: archive 21/1572/0 http://www.archivesportaleurope.net/ead-display/-/ead/pl/aicode/PL-21/type/fa/id/PL-21-1572_SLASH_0

PS: Funny Facts
There was project of Piast Genealogy. This returned a list of all descendants of Polish King Mieszko I floaing around, there are at least 5 Dowiatts that married into family. Small sample of names http://www.genealogia.okiem.pl/genealogia_mieszko.htm

And another, last edit.
Here is the map of the villages, Wigie, Juszkańce. Also Wędziagoła, there are some dowiatts found in geneteka in that close village

kowno area.jpg

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ossnhughie
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 6:45 am Post subject: Sirdan thanks again

Sirdan,

I continue to find more Dowiatt and Okmianski records, and hopefully going way back can find the records of maybe the parents (Michal Dowiatt) and (Jozef Okmianski) through their baptisms. It's funny but as the 1818 census Agata found shows it says that Jozef as of 1795 was living in a different village although still in the Szaty parish and at the time of the 1818 census was actually living in Zejmy parish. Maybe this movement had to do with the upheaval of the partitions? I also noticed that Zejmy is much closer to the village of Wigie then Szaty is, so was Zejmy established at a later date? I am sorry Sirdan, I always wind up having more questions. I will certainly look at the most recent links.

Hugh
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sirdan
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Posted: Tue May 10, 2016 5:00 pm Post subject:

There are several tiny places called like Zejmy. But if You ask for Zejmy Parish, then it was settled between 1500-1550, after Szaty parish. It is good point about influence of partitions on government and church admnistration. I have not enough data for now to answer that question. Im sure we can answer this. I would start finding an detailed map of partition borders first. I looked recently on online sketch based on googlemaps. When have time, will look again.

sirdan
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Posted: Wed May 11, 2016 2:07 am Post subject:

Looks like i pointed wrong Wigie Village in the map.

Willage Wigie from the map above belong to Bobity parish. But according to Słownik Geograficzny Królestwa Polskiego innych krajów Ościennych there must be second Wigie. But thats not village, it was called okolica i dwór (surroundings and manor) and this must be placed somewhere between Szaty and Żejmy. Maybe at the road. Either this place disappeared or was included to other vilage.

Thanks to Dave's maps, now i have confirmation that partitions did not influence administration of the area of interest, apart from only Kowno city was included to Prussian Partition.

I hope it clear any doubts.

==========================
Edit: Below is the map with Wigi place, just near Juszkańce
http://igrek.amzp.pl/result.php?cmd=id&god=P28_S38&cat=WIG100

also there is Wigie on Janów/Jonava sheet
http://igrek.amzp.pl/mapindex.php?cat=REYMANN200

and here http://igrek.amzp.pl/details.php?id=1754507 and http://igrek.amzp.pl/result.php?cmd=id&god=S56&cat=ME300

Last edited by sirdan on Wed May 11, 2016 6:33 am; edited 2 times in total

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