Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:48 am
Post subject: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest
Could anyone help with reading the place of last residence in the attached ship manifest? The Tuburska family is on lines 8 through 13. The notation in the Nationality column is also confusing. From what I know, they lived in the Russian part of Poland, specifically near the town of Rypin. The Nationality almost looks like Galicia, but when compared to some others that are obviously listed as German, the first letter is not at all like the G.
On a WWI draft registration card, my grandfather, the Constantin on line 11, listed his birth place as "Stutora" - it was also difficult to read, but I'm sure it was not in his hand writing. I've not found any place with a name similar to this.
Thank you in advance and Happy New Year everyone!
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JamesPolishOrigins Team
Joined: 06 Jul 2007
Replies: 226
Location: WEST VIRGINIA , USABack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:13 pm
Post subject:
My guess is that the nationality is "Galicia". If you look at other lines, where the nationality is "German" , the first letter is almost the same, except that for your family, the "G" and other letters are standing up straight, while the other entries for "German" are slanted.
The "Last Residence" is a puzzle. Good luck. 
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 1:39 pm
Post subject:
I agree with James: Galicia. As to the place I think it was misspelled. I would bet on Zator (now between Kratkow, Katowice and Bielsko-Biala)
Happy New Year.
Gilberto
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:01 pm
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Gilberto and James,
Thank you for taking a look at the manifest. Any chance that the first 2 letters are Sz?
Gary D.
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 3:57 pm
Post subject:
You are welcome. I also read Sz (Szan/Szen + toro/towo) but I could not find a place in Galicia with similar spelling.
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KKempa
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Replies: 43
Location: Ontario, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:37 pm
Post subject:
I'm seeing Szemtoro (although I've never seen a "z" written like that on old manifests, always cursive, but I haven't looked at a large number of them!). A search at Jewish Gen Shtetl Seeker shows various possible matches. Sentovo and Shemetovo in Ukraine, Smetowo in Poland, Shemetovo in Russia...use "sounds like" to get more possible matches.
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~gazetteer
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KKempa
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Replies: 43
Location: Ontario, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:38 pm
Post subject:
(Szemtowo made more sense to me, to use as the search term)
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KKempa
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
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KKempa
Joined: 05 Apr 2009
Replies: 43
Location: Ontario, CanadaBack to top |
Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:42 pm
Post subject:
(possibly Stottera listed as in Austria but not Russia or Poland?)
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:53 pm
Post subject:
Based on Gilberto's 3:57 post this afternoon, I took a look at the Rypin/Brodnica area map. There is a small village about 7 mi. WNW of Rypin named Szczutowo. In addition there is a larger village of the same name - Szczutowo - maybe 10 mi. NE of Rypin and about 8 mi. SE of Brodnica.
You say that Gus listed Stutora as his birthplace on his draft registration. I see that's how the info. was indexed, but the actual draft registration shown on Ancestry is hard to read - definitely says he's from Poland Russia though. Have you looked at a microfilm image other than what is on Ancestry (say at the Colorado library that has the index of the WWI draft registrations)? Could the birthplace say Stutova (instead of Stutora)? Not sure how Szcz is pronounced, but -towo is pronounced -tovo. I tried the village name on Ivona and the Polish pronounciation sounds like Shtutovo to me... What do others think?
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
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Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:03 pm
Post subject:
One more thought - on the manifest it certainly does look like Galicia to me as well, but the handwriting is distinctly different from the handwriting on the rest of the manifest. Could Galicia have been written in at some other point by someone else? I think I see ditto marks under the word Galicia that look very similar to the ditto marks before and after Kathlin's line (2 lines above her the nationality is Russian), so if there is a ditto mark on Kathlin's line, then she would also be listed as Russian.
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:03 pm
Post subject:
Thanks again everyone. It's great to find a site with so many people willing to help!
Here is a bit more information - Family stories put the birthplace of a Julia Cymański, wife of the brother of Kata in the manifest as Świedziebnia. Looking at Google maps, this is ~10 km NE of Rypin and ~5 km S of Szczutowo. Another that looks promising is Sadłovo ~5 km ENE of Rypin. A couple of good places to dig into further. Anyone know someone who knows this area?
By the way - Almost all of my ancestors that settled in Colorado were coal miners - Yes there were a lot of coal mines there, my Dad worked in them until the mid 1950's. My Mom's side of the family were English-Welsh and most of them were coal miners for several generations before they came to the U.S. Family stories are that all the Polish side were simple farmers and most left to avoid being drafted into the Russian army.
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Magroski49PO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 10 Nov 2008
Replies: 1762
Location: Joao Pessoa - BrazilBack to top |
Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:50 pm
Post subject:
I was thinking if you have checked if more Tuburska families immigrated. If so, perhaps their ship manifests were written in a clearer handwritting.
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Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:32 pm
Post subject:
Gilberto,
That is a good suggestion and I am working on that angle. The family name in the U.S. became Deborski and we have long suspected that it had been changed somehow along the way. I've been looking for ship manifests for my ancestors for years. I only found this one because I did sort of a "brute force" search of all the databases searching only for Kat* because I could not find any groups that even faintly matched what I knew of them. I am 99% sure this one is my gg grandmother and her kids, especially with the note that they are going to meet her husband in Denver, Colo. I have run down all the Deborski's in the U.S. and they are either directly related to me or their name was indexed poorly in a database. I tried that approach looking for her husband, Frank(Franciszek), and there were a few that were possible, but none had any information that could positively identify him as my Frank. Kata also had 2 brothers, Konstanty Klimowski and Jozef Klimowski, who emigrated before her and probably before her husband. I have yet to find either of them in the ship manifest databases.
Deborski and Dęborski are very rare in Poland today, with only about 10 people total according the the research that was done in 1990. Tuburski,Tuburska, Tyburski and Tyburska are a little more common with most of them concentrated in the three "counties" of Brodnica, Rypin, and Sierpc. I think that searching for the Klimowskis might be more fruitful as their name was not changed that I know of.
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