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braksator

Joined: 27 Jul 2016
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Posted: Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:38 pm Post subject:

Thank you so much that is very insightful, and being a death record explains why the formatting was different to the records I could deduce myself. By the way TIA meant "Thanks in advance" Very Happy

andruch
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 10:04 am Post subject:

This my grandfather's birth record in Latin (Michael Jawnyj)
Please confirm my translation.

Midwife: Feuronia Kozak
Baptized and Confirmed: Theodore ???????????

Isadore Jawnyj son of Gregory Jawnyj and Trin Soroka
Catharina daughter of Gregory Klym and Tryna Zacharcsuk

Sponsors
Michael
Anna S

Thanks you!
Mike

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dnowicki
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Posted: Thu Oct 06, 2016 8:05 pm Post subject:

andruch wrote:

Mike,

The entry you posted is interesting because it was written by two distinct individuals, which is evident from the two styles of handwriting within the short entry. While it is certainly OK to translate the given names from Latin to English, unless the individuals recorded in the entry immigrated to an English speaking country it is preferable to use the Polish versions of the given names since Polish was the vernacular of Galicia. I'll given the Polish version of the names followed by the English equivalent and will only transcribe the significant section of the record.

Don't let the variations in the Latin given names bother you. Variant spellings were not at all unusual. I'm not certain of the reading of one surname.

Hope this helps you.

Dave

Latin Text: Child: Michael
Parents & grandparents: Isydorus Jawnyj filius Gregorii et Irinae natae Soroka Catharina filia Gregorii Klym et Irynae natae Zacharczuk(?)

Translation: Child: Michal/Michael
Parents & grandparents: Izydor/Isidore, the son of Grzegorz/Gregory and of Irena/Irene nee Soroka; Katarzyna/Catherine, the daughter of Grzegorz/Gregory Klym and of Irena/Irene nee Zacharczuk(?)

andruch
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 2:58 am Post subject:

Dave,
Thank you very much for properly translating this for me. It means a lot. Is it odd that my great grandparents share the same first names?

crispm28
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Posted: Fri Oct 07, 2016 6:09 pm Post subject:

Hello, I am hoping for a translation of what I believe is a birth record of Sophia Zima, second entry from bottom. The year I believe is 1855 Anything you are able to translate would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you
Christine

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dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:21 pm Post subject:

andruch wrote:

Dave,
Thank you very much for properly translating this for me. It means a lot. Is it odd that my great grandparents share the same first names?

Mike,

It is a coincidence that both sets of parents have the same given names, but certainly not a very rare occurrence. The popularity of certain names sometimes was very localized. Certain names consistently repeated in parish records within families and within villages. Both sets of parents were Eastern (Greek) Rite Catholics and the names Gregory and Irene are those of two saints who were particularly venerated in the Eastern Rite so they would be popular names.
Sorry for the delay in the response. When I wanted to post yeaterday I kept getting an error message every time I connected to PO stating that an error occurred and the forum could not be accessed.

Dave

dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject:

crispm28 wrote:

Hi Christine,

I can't verify the year since the top of the page is cut off in the image but 1855 makes sense since there is a notation of the death of one child on the page and the year is 1857. I believe the number of Zofia's entry is 9, but it could be 19 since that side of the page appears to have been damaged.

Hope the translation helps you.

Dave

Entry for Sophia/Zofia Zima

Col. 1: N(ume)rus Serialis = Number in order: 9
Col. 2: Dies et Mensis = Day and Month: Februarius = February
Col. 2a: Nat(ivitatis) = of birth: 23
Col. 2b: Bapt(ismi) = of baptism: 23
Col. 3: N(ume)ro Domus = at house number: 124
Col. 4: Nomen Baptisati = Name of person baptized: Sophia = Zofia
Col. 5: Religio = Religion
Col. 5a: Catholica = Catholic: Checked
Col. 5b: Acatholica= Non-Catholic: Blank
Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 6b: Puella = Girl: Checked
Col. 7: Thori = of the (marital) bed
Col. 7a: Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 7b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank
Notations in Cols.2-7b: Obst(etrix) Teresia (illegible surname). Baptisavi Ego Stani(slaus) Widalski(?) cur(atus) loci = The midwife [was] Teresa (illegible surname). I, Stanisław Widalski(?)
Col. 8: PARENTES = PARENTS
Col. 8a: PATRIS ac parentum nomen, cognomen et conditio ejus = The name of the father and the first and surname of his parents (i.e. the paternal grandparents of the child) and his condition/status/occupation: Antonius Zima fil(ius) Catharinae natae Zima agricola = Antoni Zima, the son of Katarzyna nee Zima, a farmer
Col. 8b: MATRIS ac parentum nomen, cognomen et conditio = The name of the mother and also the first and surnames of her parents (i.e. the maternal grandparents of the child) and their condition/status/occupation: Regina Zioło f(ilia) l(egitima) Joannis et Annae natae Fabor(?) = Regina Zioło, the legitimate daughter of Jan and of Anna nee Fabor(?)
Col. 9: PATRINI = Sponsors EORUM = Their
Col. 9a & 9b: Nomen et Cognomen et Conditio = First and Surname(s) and Condition/Occupation/ Status: Joannis Madura, ag(ricola) Marianna Dupczak uxor A* = Jan Madura, a farmer [&] Maryanna Dupczak, the wife of A*

Note: His given name could be any given name which begins with the letter “A”

andruch
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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:54 am Post subject:

dnowicki wrote:

This one is for Dave since he is already familiar with the names in the following document.
I found 2 marriage records for Gregory Klym. In my grandfather Michael's birth record, Gregory Jawnyj (Isidor's father) is married to Irena Soroka, but the marriage record shows that Gregory Klym is married to Irena Soroka and her mother is a Zacharczuk . What the heck is going on here!? Maybe I'm not seeing something so obvious.
One other question. I'm seeing Jawny and Jawnyj in this church book. Do you think it's the same family?
Thanks Dave,
Mike

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Mrudnik

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Posted: Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:36 am Post subject: Birth Record Translation

Hello All,

I am looking for assistance in translating the attached Birth Record. As always Thank You.

Michael

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dnowicki
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:00 pm Post subject:

andruch wrote:

Mike,

I don't think you are missing anything but further research needs to be done. It is really necessary to find Catherine's (the mother of Michael) birth/baptism record to make sure that Gregory and Irene in the two posted marriage records are actually her parents. It would also be greatly helpful to find Isidore Jawnyj and Irena Soroka's marriage record. The key to the seeming mystery appears to be found in the grandparents of Isidore and those of Catherine. Often siblings gave the same names to children as other siblings did. One of my great grandfathers had ten siblings---nine brothers and one sister. Not all survived to adulthood but my great grandfather and four of his brothers did---and each of them had at least eight children to whom they frequently gave the same names as those used by their siblings in naming their children. My great grandfather and three of his brothers all settled in South Chicago in the same parish so there were quite a few children with the same given and surnames who were quite close in age. One really needed a scorecard to keep them all straight.
Another complication is that the Gregory Klym in the two marriage records was actually married three times. The 1883 marriage to Irene Soroka was actually at least his third marriage. It is possible that wife #1, Matrona Zabijaka and wife #2, Alexandra Zabijaka were sisters since for the marriage to wife #2 a dispensation from affinity in the second degree of the collateral line was obtained for the marriage to take place. At that time a dispensation from affinity was necessary for a man to marry his deceased wife's sister (his sister-in-law). Currently such a marriage can take place without the need for a dispensation. Possibly the most famous case of a dispensation for a man to marry his late brother's wife was Henry VIII of England. His older brother Arthur married Catherine of Aragon and then soon died. Politics dictated that Henry should marry Catherine, which he did with a dispensation from affinity granted by the pope. The problem was that the only child Catherine bore who survived was a daughter, Mary. Henry wanted a male heir and once Catherine got past childbearing age he wanted an annulment so he could marry the younger Anne. He didn't get the annulment and so declared himself head of the church in England, married Anne, had her beheaded, and went through four more wives and the rest, as they say, is history.
The point is that since Gregory also obtained a dispensation from affinity, it is really possible that in the community where he lived a goodly number of families may have been related by blood (consanguinity) or by law (affinity). Thus it seems that your research will require a lot of digging. Consanguinity and affinity can be tough to figure out. However, the site "Canon Law Made Easy" by Cathy Caridi provides the clearest and most understandable explanation of consanguinity and affinity I've found. Cathy is a Catholic Canon lawyer who teaches Canon Law in Rome where she teaches Canon Law so it seems that she really knows what she is talking about. The two attachments show the web addresses for her explanations of affinity and of consanguinity.
Anyway, here are the translations of the two marriage records. Perhaps if Elzbieta has the time she can verify that the statement in the 1883 marriage record is the permission given by Irene's father for the marriage to take place.

Hope this all makes sense to you,

Dave

1879 Marriage
Top Notation: I, Wiktor/Victor Czaplinski, Greek Catholic pastor in Kolendziany, blessed this marriage and inscribed the names of the witnesses

Col. 1: N(ume)rus Serialis = Number in order (for the year): Blank
Col. 2: Year (at top):
Dies et Mensis: Day and Month (of marriage):The 12th day of May 1879
Col. 3: Sponsus = Groom
Col. 3a: N(ume)ro Domus = House Number: 136
Col. 3b: Ejus ac parentuum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item nativitatis locus = His and his parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time (his) place of birth: Grzegorz/Gregory Kłym, son of the late Jan/John Kłym & Ksenia/Xenia nee Błazoczestywyj, farmers in Szmankowczyki, a farmer residing in Kolendziany, a widower after the late Matrona nee Zabijaka
Col. 3c: Religio = Religion
Col. 3c Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked Col. 3c Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 3d Subdivision 1: Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Col. 3d Subdivision 2: Viduus = Widower: Checked
Col. 3d Subdivision 3: Aetas = Age: 33
Col. 4: Sponsa = Bride
Col. 4a: N(ume)ro Domus = House Number: 65
Col. 4b: Ejus ac parentum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item nativitatis locus = Her and her parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time (her) place of birth: Aleksandra/Alexandra Zabijaka, the daughter of Bazyli/Basil Zabijaka and of the late Eudoksia/Eudoxia nee Pszenyszny, farmers in Kolendziany
Col. 4c: Religio = Religion
Col. 4c Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked Col. 4c Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 4d Subdivision 1: Caelebs = Bachelorette: Checked
Col. 4d Subdivision 2: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Col. 4d Subdivision 3: Aetas = Age: 21
Col. 5: TESTES EORUM = WITNESSES (and) THEIR
Col. 5a: Nomen et Cognomen = First and Surname: Maksym/Maxim Łeńkow & Adam Komaniecki
Col. 5b: Conditio = Condition/state of life/occupation: farmers from Kolendziany

Bottom Notation: From the impediment of affinity in the second degree of the collateral line, the above names spouses obtained a papal dispensation given at Vienna from the offices of the Apostolic Nunciature---Ludwig Jacobini, archbishop of Thessalonica, apostolic nuncio.

1883 Marriage
Col. 1: N(ume)rus Serialis = Number in order (for the year): Blank
Col. 2: Year (at top):
Dies et Mensis: Day and Month (of marriage): The fourth day of March, 1883
Col. 3: Sponsus = Groom
Col. 3a: N(ume)ro Domus = House Number: 136
Col. 3b: Ejus ac parentuum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item nativitatis locus = His and his parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time (his) place of birth: Grzegorz/Gregory Kłym, a farmer, the son of the late Jan/John Kłym and the late Ksenia/Xenia nee Błahoczestywyj, a widower after the late Aleksandra/Alexandra Zabijaka
Col. 3c: Religio = Religion
Col. 3c Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked Col. 3c Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 3d Subdivision 1: Caelebs = Bachelor: Blank
Col. 3d Subdivision 2: Viduus = Widower: Checked
Col. 3d Subdivision 3: Aetas = Age: 37
Col. 4: Sponsa = Bride
Col. 4a: N(ume)ro Domus = House Number: 143
Col. 4b: Ejus ac parentum nomen, cognomen atque conditio; item nativitatis locus = Her and her parents’ first & surname and condition/state of life/occupation; at the same time (her) place of birth: Irena/Irene Soroka, the daughter of Łukasz/Luke/Luka(Ukrainian) and the late Helena/Helen nee Zacharczuk, farmers in Kolendziany
Col. 4c: Religio = Religion
Col. 4c Subdivision 1: Catholica = Catholic: Checked Col. 4c Subdivision 2: Aut alia = Or another: Blank
Col. 4d Subdivision 1: Caelebs = Bachelorette: Checked
Col. 4d Subdivision 2: Vidua = Widow: Blank
Col. 4d Subdivision 3: Aetas = Age: 23
Col. 5: TESTES EORUM = WITNESSES (and) THEIR Col. 5a: Nomen et Cognomen = First and Surname: Nicefor/Nicephoros Kozak & Wacław/Wenceslaus Hossa
Col. 5b: Conditio = Condition/state of life/occupation: farmers in Kolendziany

Notation 1: In Cyrillic alphabet, probably in Ukrainian: Permission from the father of the bride for the marriage…signature/mark of Luka Soroka
Notation 2: In Latin: I Wiktor Czapliński, Greek Catholic pastor in Kolendziany, blessed this marriage nd inscribed the names of the witnesses.

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dnowicki
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Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2016 10:02 pm Post subject: Re: Birth Record Translation

Mrudnik wrote:

Hello All,

I am looking for assistance in translating the attached Birth Record. As always Thank You.

Michael

Michael,

I'll translate your record either tomorrow or on the following day.

Dave

dnowicki
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Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2016 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: Birth Record Translation

Mrudnik wrote:

Hello All,

I am looking for assistance in translating the attached Birth Record. As always Thank You.

Michael

Michael,

Here is the translation of the birth record you posted.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Notation at top of record: Copia 1885
E libro metricali natorum Ecclesiae parochialis r. groc. in Dmistozyk(?) Hołowe(cut off)
Tom. III pag. 108.109 = Copy 1885
From the metrical register of births of the Greek Catholic Rite parish church inDmistozyk(?) Hołowe(cut off) Volume III, pages 108.109

Liber natorum pag. 108 = Register of births, page 108

Col. 1: Numerus Positionis = Number in order: 1
Col. 2: 1885 Mensis = 1885 Month: Januarii = January
Col. 2a: Natus = Of birth: 17
Col. 2b: Baptismi et Confirmationis = Of baptism and Confirmation: 17
Col. 3: Numerus Domus = House Number: 39
Col. 4: NOMEN = NAME (of person baptized): Anastasia = Anastazja/Anastasia
Notation in Cols. 2-4: Obstetrix Anna ??? = The midwife (was) Anna ???
Col. 5: Religio Catholica = Catholic Religion: Graeco-catholica = Greek Catholic (Eastern Rite Catholic)
Col. 6: Sexus = Sex/Gender
Col. 6a: Puer = Boy: Blank
Col. 6b: Puella = Girl: Checked
Col. 7: Thori = Of the (marital) bed
Col. 7a: Legitimi = Legitimate: Checked
Col. 7b: Illegitimi = Illegitimate: Blank
Written over Cols. 4-7: Annus 1885 = The Year 1885
Col. 8: PARENTES: Nomen et Conditio = PARENTS, Name(s) and status: Joannes Watral(?), agricola hujus pagi, filius legitimus Basilii Watral(?) et Matronae natae Kott(?); Maria filia legitima Andreae Roman, agricola hujus pagi et Mariae natae Hawrylizak(?) = Jan/John Watral(?), a farmer of this village, the legitimate son of Bazyli/Basil Watral(?) and Matrona nee Kott(?); Maria, the legitimate daughter of Andrzej/Andrew Roman, a farmer of this village and of Maria nee Hawrylizak(?)
Col. 9: PATRINI: Nomen et condition = THE SPONSORS and their name(s) and status/condition/occupation: Joannes Matłak, Eva Stephani Moczarski uxor, agricolae hujus pagi = Jan/John Matłak, Ewa/Eve, the wife of Szczepan/Stefan/Stephen Moczarski, farmers of this village
Written at top of Col. 9 and into margin: pag.10(8) = page 10(8)

Mrudnik

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Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2016 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Birth Record Translation

dnowicki wrote:

Mrudnik wrote:

Hello All,

I am looking for assistance in translating the attached Birth Record. As always Thank You.

Michael

Thank you as always Dave. Your assistance is greatly appreciated and Invaluable. Just as a note for you, the village is Dniestrzyk Holowiecki (now known as Dnistryk)

Michael

andruch
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Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2016 6:18 pm Post subject:

dnowicki wrote:

It would also be greatly helpful to find Isidore Jawnyj and Irena Soroka's marriage record. The key to the seeming mystery appears to be found in the grandparents of Isidore and those of Catherine.

Dave,
Here is the marriage record of Isidore and Irena.
Thank you in advance,
Mike

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andruch
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Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2016 5:53 am Post subject: Death Record

I could also use help with determine the name in this death record.
Thank you,
Mike

EDIT: I think there is no name and it says that it was stillborn.

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