Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:29 pm
Post subject:
Heather,
The Polish Genealogical Society of America has Filip and Marianna's marriage indexed. I didn't find it yesterday, because I was looking for Gwizdz, Moncznik or Moncznyk. Whoever indexed Marianna's name, also thought it was Gwozdz, but then they were wrong about Philip's surname - they have it indexed Macznik (unless that was the original spelling...). There are 20 other Gwozdz marriages indexed. You could look at them here: http://pgsa.org/CzuchMarphpAll
I believe that you have looked and looked. I didn't find their marriage record by a name search, I looked through a number of Polish parishes on the date that they got married.
Since you thought maybe Filip "must have come over with Russians(?)", I thought maybe you didn't know about the partitions. At the time that Filip and Marianna left Poland, there wasn't a Poland on the map. Yes, they were Polish, and spoke Polish, but Germany, Austria, and Russia had divided Poland up and each ruled a part until after WWI.
I do know how thrilled you and your mother must be. I felt the same way when all the help I received helped me learn where my Busia came from. She had told my sister Nowy Targ at one point. She was really from Zaluczne. Nowy Targ is a bigger town about 9 miles away. Sometimes people did say they were from a bigger town, that's why I thought maybe Marianna might have been in a nearby village by Baranow. Then again, the priest did write Baranow for where she was baptised. If you can think of any other clues, maybe we can help you figure it out. I assume that you haven't found her on a ship manifest? Do you have a copy of her death certificate?
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:37 pm
Post subject:
I just looked closer at the marriage record, because initially I didn't think it looked like the name Moncznik. It appears to me that the writer was very good about putting in the Polish diacritical's when writing the info. I would say the groom's last name is spelled Mącznik (ą is pronounced "on" and of course y and i are interchangeable, so phonetically it could be spelled Monczyk. Mącznik also shows up in Moikrewni http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/m%25C4%2585cznik.html Luszowice is a town about halfway between Krakow and Katowice.
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 5:57 pm
Post subject:
I searched the Illinois State Archives Death Certificate Database (1916-1950) http://www.ilsos.gov/isavital/idphdeathsrch.jsp (info at the website on how to obtain copies of death certificates) and found Mary Mancznik, age unknown, cert. # 6033534, died Oct. 24, 1918.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 6:34 pm
Post subject:
Also, if you search Mary Mancznik at Family Search there will be an index of her record. I checked St. Adalbert's, and their death records that are scanned at Family Search only go up to 1915. You could probably write to them for a copy.
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Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 8:51 pm
Post subject: Just amazed by everyone's kindness
I want to answer some of the questions, and will. but need to say this---I would have never predicted that I would join a Polish roots web site, with obviously no idea, how to find out anything about my grandmother,as there is virtually no family or history, except my mom, and that "strangers" from across the world, would answer questions for us, that even by joining ancestry.com, I, nor my mother could not answer. That was a long sentence...but I am just moved to tears, as is my mother. The kindness and intelligence and generosity of strangers. you have eached changed my history, and my life. My mother is beyond words in her gratitude. I will write tomorrow. It has been an amazing day!
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:42 pm
Post subject:
Heather,
Mary resided at 1344 W. Ohio St. at the time of her death. The St. Adalbert's Cheri referred to actually is St. Adalbert Cemetery (at the Chicago-Niles border) and not St. Adalbert Parish (17th & Paulina in Pilsen). If you want to look for a church record of her death, the two closest Polish parishes to the place where she lived are Holy Innocents (Armour & Superior) and St. John Cantius (825 N. Carpenter). Holy Innocents is a bit closer to where she was living at the time of her death. A third possible parish (Although it was not a Polish parish a number of Poles attended there.) would be Old St. Stephen's (Ohio St.) which was demolished when the Kennedy Expressway was built. You can download a copy of her civil death certificate for a fee ($15.00 + $1.75) at the website of the Cook County Clerk (www.cookcountygenealogy.com).
Wishing you success in your search,
Dave
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Sun Dec 28, 2014 11:52 pm
Post subject: Re: Just amazed by everyone's kindness
Heather,
I'm attaching the WWI Draft Registration record for Filip Moncznik dated Sep 12, 1918 for you. The family's residence was at 1344, Ohio Street, Chicago at the time, and Mary is indexed as Filip's wife. She was still alive at the time, but apparently died the following month.
While Filip is indexed as Polish in the WWII Draft Registration record that I posted earlier, the WWI Draft Registration says 'Russia Polish'. This may support my assumption that the Filip Macznik from Miszczowice that I found a passenger record for could indeed be him. According to the 1930 US Federal Census for Chicago, Filip arrived in the US in 1907. The Filip Macznik from Miszczowice arrived in the US on March 31, 1907:
First Name: Filip
Last Name: Macznik
Nationality: Russia, Polish
Last Place of Residence: Miszczowice, Russia
Date of Arrival: March 31st, 1907
Age at Arrival: 25y
Gender: Male
Marital Status: Single
Ship of Travel: Lucania
Port of Departure: Liverpool
Manifest Line Number: 0029
Filip Macznik traveled with two other men who are indexed as being from Rogow. All three of them were headed to the same person/address in Chicago, Stanislaw Mysiak [can't make out street name]. I looked for information on Stanislaw Mysiak to see where he came from originally. It looks like he was from Rogow[o] as well.
I'm not an expert on locations of towns/villages but here is a link to a discussion on where Rogowo, Russia may be located:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php?topic=640745.0
Perhaps Miszczowice is a nearby village.
I'm attaching the 1907 passenger record that shows all three men. Filip Macznik is on line 29.
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Cheri Vanden BergPO Top Contributor & Patron
Joined: 16 Oct 2011
Replies: 497
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 8:59 am
Post subject:
Thanks Dave for the heads up about St. Adalbert's Cemetery. I wasn't thinking. Also about Holy Innocents Parish, because that is where I found Mary Francis' baptismal record.
https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-267-11764-75219-71?cc=1452409&wc=M66L-MMS:39539701,39575601
You and Polish Librarian were definitely right about the Gwóźdź surname, along with Mącznik being Filip's Polish spelling of his surname. Note that there is a John Gwóźdź who is Mary Francis' Godfather. Heather, you might already know this, but the priest often used Latin versions of names in the church records. Note that your Busia's marriage is noted at the bottom of her baptismal record, and the church where she married. Her Godmother's name was Francis. I can't make out the last name. I wonder if she was a relative.
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dnowickiPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Dec 2011
Replies: 2781
Location: Michigan City, IndianaBack to top |
Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 11:57 am
Post subject:
Heather & Cheri,
A few words about the baptismal record of Mary Frances... The forms in which given names appear in Catholic Church records is in the Latin version of the vernacular given name. In this record Marianna Francisca = Maryanna Franciszka (Polish) or Maryanne/Maryanna/Marie/Mary Frances (English); Philipus = Filip (Polish) or Phillip (English); Joannes = Jan (Polish) or John (English). The first line of notations is translated as "She received Confirmation": Blank "When": blank; "Where": blank (No notations were entered regarding her Confirmation.) The second line makes note of her marriage and reads: "She contracted marriage with John (English) or Jan (Polish) Rojek; "When": On June 24, 1933 (24 Junii - 1933); "Where": In Eccl(esia) S(anc)tae Mariae Angelorum Chicago = In the Church of St. Mary of the Angels, Chicago. The reason the name John/Jan is written as Joanne (instead of Joannes as in the name of the sponsor) is that is the form required by the rules of Latin grammar following the preposition "cum" ("with"). The notations on the following page deal with the reception of the first of the major orders (subdeacon) and solemn vows of religious profession. Everything is blank because neither of those situations apply to her.
Heather,
How certain are you about how long after after your great grandmother's death your grandmother's little brother died? Could it have been seven years rather than seven months? The reason I ask is that a Wladyslaw Moncznik died on 9/9/1925 and there was a Ladislaus Philippus Macznik baptized at Holy Innocents in 1916. Ladislaus is the Latin version of the Polish name Wladyslaw. (There is no actual English version other than using the Latin form although a lot of Poles in the USA used the English name Walter because it sounded somewhat similar to the Polish version but there really is no actual connection between Walter and Wladyslaw.) Philippus is an alternate Latin spelling for the Polish Filip or the English Phillip. Given the fact that the child baptized in 1916 was given the middle name Phillip/Filip and since that was the given name of your great grandfather it no great stretch to posit that he may very well have been your grandmother's little brother. The reason the name only appears in the index of the baptismal register is that the agreement between the Archdiocese of Chicago and the LDS church at the time the records were filmed was that the cut off date for privacy reasons was 1915. (It remains a mystery to me why on the Family Search site the Catholic Church records are listed as continuing until 1925 since all the filmed records I've ever seen end with the close of the year 1915.) If you want a copy of his baptismal certificate it would be necessary to contact Holy Innocents directly.
On the website of the Cook County Clerk's Office there are a number of records with the spelling variants of Moncznik and Mancznik which may be worth your time to check out.
Dave
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PolishLibrarianPO Top Contributor
Joined: 28 Aug 2010
Replies: 311
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Posted: Mon Dec 29, 2014 7:07 pm
Post subject:
Heather~ I think I have found your villages. The marriage record says the Filip was baptized in Łuszowice, Galicia. Słownik... says Łuszowice ob. Luszowice (I think this means Łuszowice is obsolete for Luszowice). When I found Luszowice in Słownik... it indicates it is in the “pow. dąbroskim leży przy drodze prowadzącej z tarnowa” which means the powiat Dąbrowa which lies on the road leading from Tarnow. This leads me to a Luszowice just a little northeast of Tarnow and east/southeast of Dąbrowa Tarnowska. This area was Galicia, but just barely – it is a few kilometers southeast of the border (Vistula R.) with the Kingdom of Poland. Further searching found a Rogów near here on the Kingdom of Poland side of the Vistula R. Looks to be about 25 miles as the crow flies from Luszowice. Just north/northwest of Rogów is the village of Mistrzowice. Could this be village that's listed for Filip on the Ellis Island manifest?
I have a cropped image of the map showing the two villages in a Word document but I can't figure out how to save the image and attach it here, and I can't seem to paste into this message either. So if you'd like to see it, send me a private message with your email address & I will send the Word document to you.
I did a little further research on Baranów which was Marianna Gwóźdź baptismal town listed on the church marriage record. There is a Baranów Sandomierski which is literally across the Vistula River from the Kindgdom of Poland and not too far from Luszowice. I think the better option is the Baranów (powiat Puławski) which is about 30 miles northwest of Lublin and was definitely in the Kingdom of Poland. ~PL
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 12:46 am
Post subject:
dnowicki wrote: |
Heather,
How certain are you about how long after after your great grandmother's death your grandmother's little brother died? Could it have been seven years rather than seven months? The reason I ask is that a Wladyslaw Moncznik died on 9/9/1925 and there was a Ladislaus Philippus Macznik baptized at Holy Innocents in 1916. Ladislaus is the Latin version of the Polish name Wladyslaw. (There is no actual English version other than using the Latin form although a lot of Poles in the USA used the English name Walter because it sounded somewhat similar to the Polish version but there really is no actual connection between Walter and Wladyslaw.) Philippus is an alternate Latin spelling for the Polish Filip or the English Phillip. Given the fact that the child baptized in 1916 was given the middle name Phillip/Filip and since that was the given name of your great grandfather it no great stretch to posit that he may very well have been your grandmother's little brother. |
Dave,
I was wondering about the same thing. I also saw Wladyslaw Moncznik who died 09 Sep 1925, however, his parents' names are indexed as Philip Mancznik and Bonislawa Gmozdz [Gwóźdź] -- perhaps Bronisława was Maryanna's second first name??
"Illinois Deaths and Stillbirths, 1916-1947," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N348-BY4 : accessed 30 December 2014), Wladyslaw Moncznik, 09 Sep 1925; Public Board of Health, Archives, Springfield; FHL microfilm 1,877,724.
It also looks like there was another child born 05 Jan 1922 to Filip and his second wife Josephine, according to the Cook County, Illinois, Birth Certificates Index, 1871-1922, Birth, Marriage & Death:
Name Netti Anna Macznik [Antonina, Antoinette??]
Father Philip Macznik
Mother Jospehine Klotlinsky
Birth 5 Jan 1922 - Chicago, Cook, Illinois
"Illinois, Cook County Birth Certificates, 1878-1938," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N73P-K8B : accessed 30 December 2014), Philip Macznik in entry for Netti Anna Macznik, ; citing Chicago, Cook, Illinois, United States, reference , Cook County Courthouse, Chicago; FHL microfilm .
Last edited by Ute on Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:30 am; edited 2 times in total
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 1:25 am
Post subject:
A Mariana Gwozdz, daughter of Josephus Gwozdz and Anna Krulowna was baptized 26 Jul 1813 in Luszowice, Luszowice, Kraków, Poland: "Poland, Tarnow Roman Catholic Diocese Church Books, 1612-1900," index, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/XP12-GP8 : accessed 30 December 2014), Mariana Gwozdz, 26 Jul 1813; citing Baptism, Luszowice, Luszowice, Kraków, Poland, volume years 1785 - 1825, page 96, Tarnow Diocesan Archives, Tarnow; FHL microfilm 1,898,452.
Perhaps ancestors/relatives??
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Elzbieta PorteneuvePO Top Contributor
Joined: 09 Nov 2012
Replies: 3098
Location: Paris, FranceBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 6:38 am
Post subject:
PolishLibrarian wrote: | Słownik... says Łuszowice ob. Luszowice (I think this means Łuszowice is obsolete for Luszowice).
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PL,
Abbreviations are listed in volume I, starts p13,
ob. = obacz i.e. see
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_I/14
Quote: | I have a cropped image of the map showing the two villages in a Word document but I can't figure out how to save the image and attach it here, and I can't seem to paste into this message either. |
You should have a PDF driver on your PC. Word can write .pdf, and PO accepts .pdf attachements.
Other option: once you have Google maps with village, print it (only a relevant page) as .pdf
The third one: if you have PowerPoint, paste it into a slide, and save as .jpg
Photoshop is excellent, but very expensive.
Probably many others ways of doing, the above are mine. Good side of PowerPoint (almost always, but exceptions happen) is that the size of .jpg is very much divided (less good resolution, but it is still very good for text). For example: a copy of a .png file (always huge) into PP slide, then saved as .jpg have a ratio of 100 in size.
Best,
Elzbieta
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 7:57 am
Post subject:
Another option that I'm using at the moment: I take a screen shot by hitting the "strg" and "print" buttons. This puts the screenshot in the PC memory. Now I open Word and paste it into an empty Word page using Strg and V. The screen shot will show up in the Word page. Go to it, right-click the mouse button and select "Save As Image..." (lJPEG (.jpg) or Graphics Interchange Format (.gif). I've done this a few times now and it works.
Last edited by Ute on Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:14 am; edited 1 time in total
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UtePO Top Contributor
Joined: 13 Dec 2009
Replies: 593
Location: GermanyBack to top |
Posted: Tue Dec 30, 2014 8:08 am
Post subject:
The attached map shows the three villages: Baranów, Łuszowice, and Rogów.
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