PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

Cheri Vanden Berg — Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Fri Nov 08, 2013 3:55 pm

Meg, Sorry, I did not see your message until today. My grandmother had different birth years on various documents too. I won't know until I see her birth/baptismal record. The LDS has not filmed the church records from her village. If I were you, and you have a nearby Family History Center, I'd try to rent a microfilm from the time Jan said he was born. I was happy for you when I saw that they had filmed Golub-Dobrzyn.

You asked if Jan could have come through another port. Yes. I'm not sure, but I think I might have checked if he came through Philadelphia when I subscribed to Ancestry. I don't have a current subscription. I did see a Jan Paszkowski who came through Castle Garden on 10 Mar 1894. Of course this is 2 years off from what you've seen, but this Jan is 17, and since the birthday you have for him is March 18th, it is pretty close to his age. http://tinyurl.com/ofc7olt Unfortunately they don't have his place of origin. They have others with the Paszkowski spelling.
Cheri

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

MegSondey — Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:30 pm

Author: MegSondey

Posted: Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:30 pm

Cheri, I will private message you at some point, but here are some of the basic answers. Yes, his headstone says 1863 BUT.... the only document I've located that actually might have been created with John's direct input is the CT Military Census from 1917 where he says that he is 53. That's not conclusive, but I have nothing to support the 1863 date either. In the 1910 US census he says he emigrated in 1892 from "Austria-Poland." In the 1920 census it states that he is an "alien" and emigrated in 1892 from Russian Poland and was born about 1867. In the 1930 census (last one before he died), he says he is an alien and emigrated in 1892. So, the census records seem to be consistent in the date of his entrance to the US, but, that could still be wrong! I was stymied when I took a quick look at Ellis Island Gold.... I will have to go back and spend some more time there. I am very intrigued by the information you mentioned about Adam Wisnieski and Jan Kopaczewski and Plymouth, PA. I have *no* idea why my great-grandparents chose to go to that part of Pennsylvania but figured it was one of two things (or maybe both): coal companies recruiting in their homeland and/or relatives who were already there. I have not been able to trace any of my great-grandmother's relatives (Kopaczewski/Korpaceski) although I have not put much effort into that side of things. Since I know only about five words of Polish, plus am not Catholic (so the whole issue of parishes and priests is foreign to me), researching my paternal Polish side has not gone very far at all. If anyone else on this thread has input, ideas, or resources -- please let me know. Thank you!!

Patzkoski (and all other versions!)

MegSondey — Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Author: MegSondey

Posted: Thu Oct 10, 2013 1:38 pm

Oh my!! Somehow I missed the fact that there were a number of replies!! I need to print out the information that you have provided (along with the questions) and get back to you. It looks like there may be some *very* important clues that you've provided.

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

Henryk — Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:05 am

Author: Henryk

Posted: Fri Jul 12, 2013 11:05 am

Quote:

It is most likely that there was only one parish in 1866 and the records have been filmed and can be and viewed at a LDS center.

According to Słownik Geograﬁczny Królestwa Polskiego, the original parish for Dobrzyń was Dulsk. There are LDS records for Dulsk, which go back earlier than the Golub-Dobrzyń records.

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

Cheri Vanden Berg — Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:27 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 9:27 pm

Thank you Dave! I always appreciate your knowledge, and what good news for Meg that the LDS filmed records there.

Meg, I saw John Paszkowski's gravestone. So he could have possibly been born in 1863? Have you seen the Jan Patzkowsky on the Hamburg passenger list. Departure date was 7 June 1890. His residence ( NOT birthplace) was Wies Pawies, Russland (Russia). I couldn't find it on a map. This Jan was 27 in 1890, so he could have been born in 1863. The arrival date that you have for him is 1892, is that from the census? Is that consistent every census year? My grandparents, and others I've looked at, had different arrival years in different census years.

Do you know of Ellis Island Gold? At this site you can just type in a village name, or someone's initials, etc. I looked up Gollub and there were 244 passengers from there. Dobrzyn had 807. That was just the passengers that were indexed correctly. Of course sometimes the manifests are difficult to read. Unfortunately I don't know of any site where you could search for where someone was going to (if I'm missing that, please someone, let me know!)

I did see a Jan Kopaczewski from Gollub who was going to his brother-in-law Adam Wisnieski in Plymouth, PA. Kopaczewski/Korpaceski was your great grandmother's surname? It was interesting to see in the years before the WWI the manifests said Gollub, Germany Dobrzyn, Russia, and then afterwards they were in Poland.
Cheri

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

dnowicki — Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:27 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:27 pm

Meg,
There is only one Roman Catholic Parish at the present time which serves Golub Dobrzyn---the parish of St. Catherine (sw. Katarzyny) which is part of the diocese of Torun. It is most likely that there was only one parish in 1866 and the records have been filmed and can be and viewed at a LDS center. There are two sets of Catholic Records for that parish---copies of the Church records and also films of the first copy (the original copy) of the Church records. Since they are listed under Germany it would appear that the parish church was in German Poland (Province of Posen). The film notes state that the records are in Latin, Polish and German but in my experience of researching ancestors from German Poland is that the only German in the records is the title and the majority of the text is in Latin with some occasional Polish. In general the records were kept in the short paragraph format until about 1820 and from then on were in the columnar format which usually contains a good amount of information. How much information was recorded depended on the priest who was keeping the records. However, I have consistently found notations in the books, usually in late summer or early autumn stating either that the copy was produced during the annual meeting of the parishes of the deanery (dekanat in Polish) or was examined by the dean at that time. The deanery was and is a grouping of parishes based on geographical location under a priest who acts as dean. According to Catholic Canon Law (Church law) deans and deaneries pretty much function as the bishop of the place sees fit. However, an almost universal duty of the dean was to inspect the baptism, marriage and burial records of the parishes in his deanery and often the dean signs the book on a yearly basis stating that he examined the records. So what this means as far as research is concerned is that the chances are pretty good that an individual record will have most of the columns filled in with information. If your Jan/John was baptized in the parish the record will include his date and place of birth and date of baptism together with his father's name and his mother's maiden name together with the names of the sponsors and possibly other useful information. A word of caution...don't take the date you've been told as gospel. If you don't find the record where you expect it to be check the years on both sides of 1866. When I was growing up we lived in the same house as my maternal grandparents and my grandmother always said that she was born on October 13, 1885. When I looked for her in the Church baptismal book (also in German Poland) there was no record of her in October 1885. Turns out that she was actually born on October 13, 1884.
Best of success in your research.
Dave

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

MegSondey — Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 pm

Author: MegSondey

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 2:41 pm

Wow... thanks for the fast reply. And I didn't know about the requirement to serve 15 years..... I wonder if he "ran-off" to America to get out of the rest of the years of service? That is also interesting about the history of Golub-Dobrzyn. Does anyone know if there were others from that area who migrated to the mining area of Pennsylvania?

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

Cheri Vanden Berg — Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:18 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 10:18 am

Meg,
Family Search might have microfilmed church records - births, marriages, deaths for Golub-Dobrzyn. If you go to the Family Search site, and search the library catalog for Golub-Dobrzyn you will see what is available to rent and search at your local Family History Center.

The reason that I said "might" is because of what I found online about the history of Golub-Dobrzyn:
The towns of Dobrzyń and Golub were adjacent to each other. They were located on both sides of the Drweca River, Golub east of the river and Dobrzyń to its west. In the past, Golub was within the territory of Germany and Dobrzyń - within the territory of Russia. A short narrow bridge connected the two towns, a German guard stood on one side and a Russian - on the other side. And of course, there were also two separate customs houses, in the two different regions of the bridge.

At Family Search the records mentioned Gollub - which was the German name for the town, so I don't know if both towns records would be on microfilm, but it's worth checking into, because they do include the year 1866, so you might find the birth record of your Jan/John, his parents, grandparents...

I found it interesting that German-Poland and Russian-Poland border was right there. Your Jan/John would have served in the military whether he wanted to or not. If he was supposed to serve for 15 years, as Elzbieta said, perhaps he emigrated before his service was over.
Cheri

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:48 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:48 am

MegSondey wrote:

I am searching for any Pennsylvania documentation on John/Jan B Patzkoski
...
John was born 18 March 1866 in Golub-Dobrzyn, Poland (no documentation for that).

... the Connecticut Military Census of 1917 where John states that he is not a citizen, has not taken out his first papers, is Polish, and served in the Russian military for four years! (And, yes, I was shocked when I saw that!)

Hi,

I guess two Polish possibilities for the initial name, Pączkowski (like pączek , kind of donuts), or Paczkowski (like paczka, a parcel).

Googled with both:
Pączkowski, Golub-Dobrzyn
and
Paczkowski, Golub-Dobrzyn
- many of them live in Golub-Dobrzyn today.

I also searched in Polish Archives for Golub-Dobrzyn
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/search?q=Golub-Dobrzyn&order=
40 entries, but no scans online, and apparently not even information they have books for year 1866 for Roman-Catholic

Concerning last item, about Russian military service at that time - the normal duration was 15 years, we had here records about it.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Jan B Patzkoski from Golub-Dobrzyn

MegSondey — Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Author: MegSondey

Posted: Wed Jul 10, 2013 4:48 pm

Hi!

Well, I'm finally getting around to posting about my great-grandfather and family. I am hoping someone can dig up some information on them. I'm going to concentrate just on his information, and if anyone is interested, later give the information on his wife and children.

I am searching for any Pennsylvania documentation on John/Jan B Patzkoski (and all of the wonderful versions of that last name). Here is what I know.

John was born 18 March 1866 in Golub-Dobrzyn, Poland (no documentation for that). He may have married before or after he emigrated to the US, as his emigration year and marriage are both supposedly 1892. (Again, I can't find any documentation for that). I do have a photo of the two of them that was taken by a photography studio in Philadelphia, PA -- they are not in wedding clothes, but perhaps this is a record of a US wedding? Until he shows up in records in Connecticut in 1907, I believe he and his young family were in Pennsylvania as the first few children were born there, and legend has it that he was a "coal miner."

Piecing together census records, it appears that John's wife, Balbina, had at least twelve children, three having died either before or shortly after the move to Connecticut. My grandmother, Pauline/Pelegia was supposedly born in Plymouth, PA in 1894, but she told me "all the records washed away." Verna was supposedly born in Scranton, PA in 1896. Edward was born in "Pennsylvania" in 1900. Chester was born in Wallingford, CT in 1905. Subsequent children were all born in Connecticut.

The best piece of documentation I have (other than the fact that John died in Wallingford, CT on 3 April 1935) is the Connecticut Military Census of 1917 where John states that he is not a citizen, has not taken out his first papers, is Polish, and served in the Russian military for four years! (And, yes, I was shocked when I saw that!) He also states that he can ride a horse and handle a team, but can't perform any of the other mostly technical skills about which they ask.

As far as I know, the family was always Polish Roman Catholic. Can anyone help?