PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Anonymous — Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:18 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Mon Feb 02, 2015 5:18 am

singingfalls wrote:

Latest findings via email from Ukraine.

Dear friends. Ludwik was born on 20th December 1895 in the village Храбузна (Hrabuuzna) of Полонне (Polonne) district. Today this village exists in Khmelnitsky region. The first record of the birth of Ludwik (# 130a ) was made on December 26, 1895, in the book of the (Laboonsk) Catholic parish. It means, Ludwik was Polіsh. (Church of St. Anna in the city Polonne . The Priest is the father Alexander Novoselskiy). Hraboozna is the ancient settlement , in 1620 belonged to a famous educator , Prince of Ostrog (Polish). No doubt we must have been surfs.

Very exciting! I wonder if any survived the Stalin purges of the 40's?

Stanley,
This is really very good news! Congratulations!

Gilberto

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 8:15 pm

Latest findings via email from Ukraine.

Dear friends. Ludwik was born on 20th December 1895 in the village Храбузна (Hrabuuzna) of Полонне (Polonne) district. Today this village exists in Khmelnitsky region. The first record of the birth of Ludwik (# 130a ) was made on December 26, 1895, in the book of the (Laboonsk) Catholic parish. It means, Ludwik was Polіsh. (Church of St. Anna in the city Polonne . The Priest is the father Alexander Novoselskiy). Hraboozna is the ancient settlement , in 1620 belonged to a famous educator , Prince of Ostrog (Polish). No doubt we must have been surfs.

Very exciting! I wonder if any survived the Stalin purges of the 40's?

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 am

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 11:59 am

Gilberto, I haven't read it yet but will certainly keep it in mind. I see it has very high ratings on line. Looking forward.

I see you are in Brazil. I had a dear friend who was born in Poland and was the only survivor of his family during the Holocaust. He went to Russia, fled Siberia, did Aliyah, met his wife, had two children and went to Brazil. There must be many stories of those born in Poland in Brazil.

Stan Petrowski

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Anonymous — Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:36 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sat Jan 10, 2015 7:36 am

singingfalls wrote:

I have to say that now I am thinking of the Lord's words when he said "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." Wow! What a history this nation has had. I have been a shepherd and small farmer (among my means of livelihood) and when I look at the images of Poland and how rich it is with water and open farm land my head shakes in amazement. This is why it is so coveted by the nations. The turmoil of it's history seems endless and it still is not entirely at rest.

Thank you Elzbieta. I should have noted that but didn't.

Just in case you haven't read it yet,, let me suggest you "God's playground vol. I e II, by Normam Davies.

Gilberto

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:28 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 6:28 pm

I have to say that now I am thinking of the Lord's words when he said "And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet. For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. All these are the beginning of sorrows." Wow! What a history this nation has had. I have been a shepherd and small farmer (among my means of livelihood) and when I look at the images of Poland and how rich it is with water and open farm land my head shakes in amazement. This is why it is so coveted by the nations. The turmoil of it's history seems endless and it still is not entirely at rest.

Thank you Elzbieta. I should have noted that but didn't.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:50 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:50 pm

Corrected URL from Gilberto:
http://www.donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm
(NO dot at the end)

Elzbieta

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:12 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:12 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Stan,

I think that oblast Ternopil was part of Austro-Hungary, but not oblast Chmielnicki, which main city was Kamieniec Podolski.

First step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki
and its map
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zab%C3%B3r_austriacki#mediaviewer/File:Kr%C3%B3lestwo_Galicji.png
Ternopil is in grey sector, Chmielnicki is eastward.

Second step:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austro-W%C4%99gry
and its map
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/73/Andree48-2.jpg

Galicia is in the North-East.
Lemberg (Lwow, Lviv) geo position 49°51′0″N 24°01′0″E (near 50 x 42 on the map, blue with inclined stripes)
Ternopil is 49° 33′ N 25° 36′ E (near 50 x 44; blue with vertical stripes)
Kamieniec Podolski is outside of Austro-Hungary, a little above yellow Bukowina, in the white area, close to the map's border

The place Adamówka does not help much, because you have one near Lemberg/Lwow/Lviv, and one in Chmielnicki oblast (and one within today Poland).

To be explicit, I think your Chrabużna
is
Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine (Ukrainian translitterated to Latin)
Храбузна, Тернопільська область, Україна (Ukrainian Cyrillic)

Best,
Elzbieta

Yes, the Adamówka of which I refer is definitely the one in Poland. I am currently in contact with a relative there. Very informative post. Thank you. Gilberto is leaning toward the Khrabuzna you recommend also. I will start there.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:01 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 5:01 pm

Magroski49 wrote:

Stanley

I don't have a detailed map showing the border line between Galicia and Russia.
The Chrasbuna near Urlow is in Ternopil Oblast. It is the one I found microfilmed by LDS.
This was surely Galicia: http://donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm.

Gilberto

It seems there is a problem with the URL for me. Is it correct? Since this will not be resolved by me guessing I will go with your advisement.

Thank you again Gilberto.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:41 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:41 pm

Here is google earth and its placing of these villages. I don't know if this helps or not?

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:23 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 4:23 pm

singingfalls wrote:

Chrabużna

Khrabuzna, Khmel'nyts'ka oblast, Ukraine

or

Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine

Is there a way to simplify this? Would one be considered Russian and the other Austrian? Any guidance is appreciated.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Anonymous — Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:23 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 3:23 pm

Stanley

I don't have a detailed map showing the border line between Galicia and Russia.
The Chrasbuna near Urlow is in Ternopil Oblast. It is the one I found microfilmed by LDS.
This was surely Galicia: http://donhoward.net/genpoland/gal.htm.

Gilberto

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:42 am

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Fri Jan 09, 2015 10:42 am

Alas, life is never simple. As I was doing designations on google map and seeking to gather information on Khrabużna (Chrabużna), lo and behold, I have two Khrabużna in the Ukraine. I'm not sure if I am being overly careful but we have this:

Khrabuzna (Xrabuzna, Chrabużna) as optional spellings.

Khrabuzna, Khmel'nyts'ka oblast, Ukraine

and

Khrabuzna, Ternopil's'ka oblast, Ukraine

Is there a way to simplify this? Would one be considered Russian and the other Austrian? Any guidance is appreciated.

Re: Genealogogy Research 201

singingfalls — Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:16 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 7:16 pm

dnowicki wrote:

Stanley.

The link Gilberto posted for you lists microfilms of church records of the parish of Zborow. The microfilms were made of the manuscript records in the archive of the archdiocese of Lubaczow and records in the Ukrainian state archive. The records are available on film and not online so your next step would be to go to the LDS (Mormon church) site (www.familysearch.org/films/) register an account for yourself, pick out a family history center near you (from the list on the LDS site) and order the films which cover the years you would like to research. When the films arrive at the center you picked out, go there and one of their volunteers will help you figure out what to do to actually view the films. The cost to rent a film is $7.50 for 90 days. There are four films which cover all the records filmed for Zborow. The film notes state that the records are in Latin and in Polish. When your ancestors lived there the area was politically part of the Austrian Empire so the records should be in Latin in the columnar format. My guess is that the records in Polish would date from after WWI.

Your ancestors considered themselves Polish but at the time they left Europe they would have been ethnic Poles who were citizens of and owed allegiance to the Emperor of Austria. Prior to the Partitions that area was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. After 1795 it was part of the Austrian Empire until after WWI. Then it was part of the Republic of Poland until after WWII when it became part of Ukraine.

The LDS Family Search Site has plenty of articles which should help give direction to your research and will explain some strategies for research. Simply put, genealogy research is no different from any other serious research---start with what is known, work back from the known to the unknown, document your sources, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The place to start in the films would be to search for the birth record of your grandfather and see where the information in that record leads you.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Dave

Thank you Dave. The curious part of this is that my Grandmother clearly identified herself as Austrian Polish. My grandfather on the other hand on all records I have been able to see identified himself and ethnically Polish and nationality Russian. Nevertheless, we have a good lead from his papers and I will follow your instructions. Thanks again for taking the time.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Anonymous — Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:31 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:31 pm

MegSondey wrote:

"Ukrainians" who are Poles..... well, that is my challenge. My grandfather, Michael Sondey (Sadej) was absolutely Polish and spoke Polish. But.... the place he is from is now in Ukraine! No, he was never "Ukrainian" nor did he ever claim to be one. But when he and some of his siblings emigrated it was considered part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and many of the records list them as "Austrian." I would dearly love to learn more about the village where he grew up (Lukowies) and the larger city where apparently some of the family may have lived ("Lemberg") but I'm still working on figuring out exactly which records where I need to consult! I have found some LDS records of Lukowies and that's what I'm working on right now.... absolutely tons of "Sadej" family members there. I just need to get back to the LDS library near my hometown to go through the records some more.

Meg,

Just in case you don't know, Lemberg is the german name por Lwów (polish), or Lviv (ukrainain).

Gilberto

Genealogogy Research 201

dnowicki — Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:23 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 4:23 pm

Stanley.

The link Gilberto posted for you lists microfilms of church records of the parish of Zborow. The microfilms were made of the manuscript records in the archive of the archdiocese of Lubaczow and records in the Ukrainian state archive. The records are available on film and not online so your next step would be to go to the LDS (Mormon church) site (www.familysearch.org/films/) register an account for yourself, pick out a family history center near you (from the list on the LDS site) and order the films which cover the years you would like to research. When the films arrive at the center you picked out, go there and one of their volunteers will help you figure out what to do to actually view the films. The cost to rent a film is $7.50 for 90 days. There are four films which cover all the records filmed for Zborow. The film notes state that the records are in Latin and in Polish. When your ancestors lived there the area was politically part of the Austrian Empire so the records should be in Latin in the columnar format. My guess is that the records in Polish would date from after WWI.

Your ancestors considered themselves Polish but at the time they left Europe they would have been ethnic Poles who were citizens of and owed allegiance to the Emperor of Austria. Prior to the Partitions that area was part of the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. After 1795 it was part of the Austrian Empire until after WWI. Then it was part of the Republic of Poland until after WWII when it became part of Ukraine.

The LDS Family Search Site has plenty of articles which should help give direction to your research and will explain some strategies for research. Simply put, genealogy research is no different from any other serious research---start with what is known, work back from the known to the unknown, document your sources, and enjoy the fruits of your labors. The place to start in the films would be to search for the birth record of your grandfather and see where the information in that record leads you.

Hope this clarifies things a bit.

Dave

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

MegSondey — Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:47 pm

Author: MegSondey

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 3:47 pm

"Ukrainians" who are Poles..... well, that is my challenge. My grandfather, Michael Sondey (Sadej) was absolutely Polish and spoke Polish. But.... the place he is from is now in Ukraine! No, he was never "Ukrainian" nor did he ever claim to be one. But when he and some of his siblings emigrated it was considered part of the Austro-Hungarian empire and many of the records list them as "Austrian." I would dearly love to learn more about the village where he grew up (Lukowies) and the larger city where apparently some of the family may have lived ("Lemberg") but I'm still working on figuring out exactly which records where I need to consult! I have found some LDS records of Lukowies and that's what I'm working on right now.... absolutely tons of "Sadej" family members there. I just need to get back to the LDS library near my hometown to go through the records some more.

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 am

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 10:47 am

Magroski49 wrote:

A 1934 directory tells me catholic records were in Zborow parish.
There are LDS films:
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/676987?availability=Family%20History%20Library
A Film Note states 'May include surrounding villages within the parish. Includes records for people not belonging to the parish'.

Urlow has flms, too, but only to greek-catholic and covering up to 1864.

Gilberto

OK, now we are getting down to genealogy lesson 201 and the next level. This would certainly include whatever was not destroyed during the war I would guess. What is the best way to proceed from here? Would these records cover Poland, Ukraine or both? You seem to imply a regional record storage. Are there tools on line that would give me an overview of what strategies to use on these types of things? I am anxious to learn. And my real question to ask is-are these relatives of mine Polish or Ukrainian or both?

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

Anonymous — Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:15 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Thu Jan 08, 2015 5:15 am

A 1934 directory tells me catholic records were in Zborow parish.
There are LDS films:
https://familysearch.org/search/catalog/676987?availability=Family%20History%20Library
A Film Note states 'May include surrounding villages within the parish. Includes records for people not belonging to the parish'.

Urlow has flms, too, but only to greek-catholic and covering up to 1864.

Gilberto

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:37 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 9:37 pm

PolishLibrarian wrote:

In U.S. the female name is spelled Marian and for a man it is spelled Marion (most famous case Marion Morrison became John Wayne).

Marion Louise on the 1940 census is 4 and female. As your father's sister she would be your aunt.

from Jan. 6

singingfalls wrote:

Of interest. I had previously posted that there was a Marian Petraszczuk in the vicinity. My assumption was that this was a female name. It is not. This could very well be my great uncle who we called Marianka. This individual changed his name also from Petraszczuk to Pietrowski.

Attached is the Naturalization Record from 1926 for Maria[o]n Petraszczuk changed to Pio[e]trowski (interchange the letter before the bracket with the letter enclosed in the bracket) who immigrated in 1910 from Chrabusno Russia. On his WWII registration he also signed his name Maryan & he's in a 1950 city directory with the same spelling. I would guess this might be because that is how the Polish speaker would pronounce the name Marian. By signing his name Maryan, the American reader would then pronounce it the way it was spelled. It's possible this person is the brother of Ludwik Petraszczuk (it seems he came from the same village), and if so he would be your father's uncle, or your great uncle as you mentioned yesterday. ~PL

PolishLibrarian,

I am completely overwhelmed and in a state of shock because of this great flood tide of intimate information. I am the product of a generation of Americans who has not known their roots at all.

I am 67 and now I am at the point of almost weeping because this information is nothing I have ever known, much to my shame. What great value it has to me now. I never knew that uncle Maryanka was my great uncle! He had a very beautiful home with fancy Persian like rugs all over the place and very floral upholstery on all of his furniture.

Babush never ever ever had idle hands. She would crochet all of the time with the most ornate designs. Dzjadek's house was covered top to bottom with her work. Curtains, table clothes and arm rests on all the furniture and many other unique places along with doilies for all cups, dishes and glasses. This, with raising many children. I remember that she made her own kilbasa and many other traditional foods. Christmas and Easter, I am unable to describe what they were like at their house. She and all of my aunts would make the fanciest Easter eggs you could ever imagine using bees wax.

I am not sure, but one tid bit of information I VAGUELY recall was that when Babush came to the States she stayed with Maryanka before she was married to Dzjadek. This may have been an arranged marriage? She came here when she was 16 years old from Adamówka, Poland and married when she was nineteen.

Through the internet a young man from Adamówka, who is of the Kyć family of Babush, has sent me the very family line of my great great grandfather just in the past week.

How grateful can I be to this community on this Board in particular for engaging a total stranger with such kindness in the help you have given me? You have helped me so much and I am overwhelmed with this information. I have not given up yet and will try to find my Dzjadek's family over in the old country also.

I am totally blown away!

Re: Crazy surname chase - Petraszczuk

singingfalls — Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:46 pm

Author: singingfalls

Posted: Wed Jan 07, 2015 8:46 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Re: Marian
The attached "Declaration of Intention" gives 6 names of children:
Stanley - Stanislaw
Genevieve - Genowefa
Casimer - Kazimierz
Joseph - Jozef
Anna - Anna
and
Marian Louise - ?
The last name is double, Louise is a female English version of Louis = Ludwik, in Polish Ludwika
While Marian is a male name in Polish, Louise if a woman name in English.
Therefore we have a choice:
- either typo in Marian, and the female Maria Louise = Maria Ludwika;
- or typo in Louise, and the male Marian Louis = Marian Ludwik
The child was born in the US, and you know better than me if boys are named Marian there.
What I know from France, is that Marian here is spelled like Marianne, woman name, and it's very hard for a man to live with.
The other children's names are all classic, and English like.
My opinion therefore is that the typo is in Marian, should be Maria, with the full name Maria Louise, given to the smalest child, daughter of father Ludwik.

I wonder if you could get their birth certificates from Pennsylvania?

Best,
Elzbieta

Dear Elzbieta,
We called her ciotka Mania.

Staś