PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Thank you

Louisbean — Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:24 pm

Author: Louisbean

Posted: Sun Feb 01, 2015 3:24 pm

Thanks so much! I'll look into all this and see if I can find any more records, it's incredibly helpful.

All the best,

Re: Can anyone help me figure out this surname?

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:52 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Jan 31, 2015 4:52 am

Louisbean wrote:

I'm trying to find out the surname of my great great grandfather.

I have a marriage certificate here (the one on the left).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdv3ly2u4zev2gw/Possible%20for%20Rachel%20Gotfrid%27s%20marriage%20crop.jpg?dl=0

The translation is as follows:

14. This happened in the town of Raciaz on the eighth/twentieth of April in the year one thousand eight hundred eighty seven at ten o’clock in the morning. Rabbi of the Raciaz Synagogue appeared, Haim Kaufman Oterman, along with Haim Jeglio, a bachelor, twenty two years old, son of the late Moszek Hersz and the living Haia, he resides in the village of Bodzanow with his mother; and Ita Ruchla Gotfrid, a maiden, twenty three years old, daughter of Kasryl and the late Hejga [Hinga?], residing with her father in the town of Raciaz; and in the presence of witnesses Moszek Aron Markus, a synagogue attendant, seventy one years old, and Lejzer Warszawski, a merchant, thirty six years old, both residing in the town of Raciaz; and they stated that yesterday before him a religious marriage was contracted between Haim Jeglio and Ita Ruchla Godfrid. This marriage was preceded by three readings of the banns in the Raciaz and Bodzanowo Jewish synagogues, on the twenty first, twenty eighth of March and fourth of April in the current year; and that oral consent to this marriage was given; that no impediments to the marriage arose. The newlyweds announced that they have made no prenuptial agrement. This record was read to the declarant and witnesses, it was signed by us, the Rabbi and witnesses, others are illiterate. Civil Registrar [signatures]

I'm trying to find out the actual surname of Haim Jeglio. Although the translator has used Jeglio here, on the JRI index, it's written as Jegl.

One possible clue - in a later document, his wife Rachel seems to list two cousins called I think Fogel (although not totally sure as they are crossed out and it's a bit difficult to read)

See here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1cz6ku8tbhp18g/Screenshot%202015-01-29%2009.26.41.png?dl=0

I was thinking possibly they were crossed out because they were Hyman's cousins, and wondered if Jegl could actually be Fogel?

Would be so grateful if anyone can help.

Antonio,

I am not sure to give you a reasonnable answer, so be indulgent please.

Thanks for providing translation of Cyrillic. I went trough family names, and was making my own deciphering. The reason is that scribing non-native-Cyrillic name in Cyrillic is always ear-based [it's the same for us: when you want to record say Japaneese name, you do it with your syllabic presentation].

Haim Kaufman Oterman
// OK, but the sound "O" writes in different ways, could be "Hau", Hauterman – I mean when I spell Hauterman, and have to write it in Cyrillic, it will be with the "O" at the beginning

daughter of Kasryl and the late Hejga [Hinga?],
// I see Helga

between Haim Jeglio
// The groom's name is declined, between Haiemom (X) and …The translator did recover nominative Haim, but he had trouble with the family name, and left it declined (like anyone else, recovering nominative is tricky, and can be impossible if you do not have etymology).
I decipher Egl (+ declension suffix) from Cyrillic text, maybe Egel in nominative. The Cyrillic "e" can be either Latin "e" or "je"; for example Еврей is transliterated in Polish Jewriej, and means Jew; but Ева is transliterated Ewa, and is well known feminine name.
Sometimes "e" is a letter added at the beginning of a name, like in Екатерина - Jekatarina for Katarzyna = Kathreen.
The word eigel - is eigle in English (hawk), aigle in French (hawk), but no meaning in Polish. The scribe had a difficult task.
Is Egel a possible writing of Fogel?
If you have any knowledge that is should be, please go ahead with that.

As far as I know "fogel" comes from German "vogel", means bird

Best,
Elzbieta

Can anyone help me figure out this surname?

Louisbean — Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:31 am

Author: Louisbean

Posted: Thu Jan 29, 2015 4:31 am

I'm trying to find out the surname of my great great grandfather.

I have a marriage certificate here (the one on the left).

https://www.dropbox.com/s/kdv3ly2u4zev2gw/Possible%20for%20Rachel%20Gotfrid%27s%20marriage%20crop.jpg?dl=0

The translation is as follows:

14. This happened in the town of Raciaz on the eighth/twentieth of April in the year one thousand eight hundred eighty seven at ten o’clock in the morning. Rabbi of the Raciaz Synagogue appeared, Haim Kaufman Oterman, along with Haim Jeglio, a bachelor, twenty two years old, son of the late Moszek Hersz and the living Haia, he resides in the village of Bodzanow with his mother; and Ita Ruchla Gotfrid, a maiden, twenty three years old, daughter of Kasryl and the late Hejga [Hinga?], residing with her father in the town of Raciaz; and in the presence of witnesses Moszek Aron Markus, a synagogue attendant, seventy one years old, and Lejzer Warszawski, a merchant, thirty six years old, both residing in the town of Raciaz; and they stated that yesterday before him a religious marriage was contracted between Haim Jeglio and Ita Ruchla Godfrid. This marriage was preceded by three readings of the banns in the Raciaz and Bodzanowo Jewish synagogues, on the twenty first, twenty eighth of March and fourth of April in the current year; and that oral consent to this marriage was given; that no impediments to the marriage arose. The newlyweds announced that they have made no prenuptial agrement. This record was read to the declarant and witnesses, it was signed by us, the Rabbi and witnesses, others are illiterate. Civil Registrar [signatures]

I'm trying to find out the actual surname of Haim Jeglio. Although the translator has used Jeglio here, on the JRI index, it's written as Jegl.

One possible clue - in a later document, his wife Rachel seems to list two cousins called I think Fogel (although not totally sure as they are crossed out and it's a bit difficult to read)

See here:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/n1cz6ku8tbhp18g/Screenshot%202015-01-29%2009.26.41.png?dl=0

I was thinking possibly they were crossed out because they were Hyman's cousins, and wondered if Jegl could actually be Fogel?

Would be so grateful if anyone can help.