PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:49 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 10:49 am

thankyou so much, Elzbieta

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:30 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 5:30 am

lindyloo40 wrote:

I have my Fathers birth date,28/09/1925 Krakow was where he was born......As there are a few Krakows, how do I go about this......Thankyou

Lindy, start with the biggest Krakow.

See my own story (my own birth certificate) with Krakow here
http://polishorigins.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2816

I suggest you have your own birth certificate [as a proof you are a daughter, maybe something else - your documents], your ID or passeport, and make a wire-transfert of 33 PLN to their bank account (IBAN+SWIFT/BIC), then you fax all of this with your father name and birth to Krakow central USC registry. Do not forget to write clearly your email - the procedure does not allow for email, but at the end of the day, it might go by email.

The postal address, etc:
https://www.bip.krakow.pl/?id=32&sub=struktura&query=id%3D10282%26pz%3D1

Bonne chance!
Elzbieta

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:23 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Sat Apr 04, 2015 2:23 am

I have my Fathers birth date,28/09/1925 Krakow was where he was born......As there are a few Krakows, how do I go about this......Thankyou

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:24 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:24 am

Thankyou Elzbieta, I shall keep plodding along xx

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:17 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:17 am

lindyloo40 wrote:

Thankyou for your reply, Elzbieta,
What sort of camps were they? Mussbach?

I am not historian of WWII, and I did not see any comprehensive document about after-WWII displacements.

Year 1946, WWII is over, Yalta deal signed, European countries making up their shape, for next years of cold war.
Many Polish soldiers, Poles from 1939, who went to the WWII to fight for their country are subject of communist horror, they have no home to go back. They were part to Allied Armies, but they became stateless.

From my own family: the elder brother of my Mom left in September 1939 for the WWII, and got emprizoned (PoW) by Russians in Lwow, tortured in Kamtchatka, left pedestrian with Anders Army through Iran to Palestine. Nobody ever seen him again, one censored letter here and then until his death.
Last year I was able to find in the UK BMD records my cousin birth in 1947, then the whole family of 3 on the vessel from Southampton to NY in 1952, all the page of Polish people with stateless status.

I recalll a couple of years ago, in France, discussing with a very old Polish man, who never took French citizenship, and who was fighting in France during WWII, against French - I did not understood why, but he seemed have his reasons. After the WWII he was transfered with other soldiers to the UK, then back to France.

I guess that Mussbach was a large land near a river, in Germany, allocated by Allied Armies for a camp (in the sense temporary place to live, with tents), to have a place for former WWII soldiers to gather. No doubt many other camps too. Awaiting the Allied Armies find a place in the world for all those brave stateless.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:26 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:26 am

Thankyou for your reply, Elzbieta,
What sort of camps were they? Mussbach?

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:08 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 4:08 am

lindyloo40 wrote:

a document I have called Fiche Individuelle has a photo of my father, with the information listed above in the last chapter
Document number is 64672,
followed by fingerprints.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Lindy,

1.
Fiche Individuelle – often Fiche individuelle d’état civil - is a French name used for a document with information corresponding more or less to an ID card plus birth plus marriage if any. Until year 2000 it was an official document one could get at any mairie (city hall) where a city employee could fill up a form with information copied from official original records shown by petitioner, put a date, and stamp it with city seal. A kind of document stating: I, employee of the city X, have seen original documents, demonstrating that this person resides here, was born there, from parents that and that, is married to.

Quote:

On a document carte dentity it says
Address....Mussbach
Cerele do........Neustadt
Situatione de famille....cel

The terminology is French.
The first line “address” is in the village/city Mussbach, Germany, which is part to a district/lander/whatever administrative organization given in the second line, here Neustadt, Germany.
The third line “Situation de famille” indicates a civil status of a person: célibataire (single), marrié (married), veuf (widow), divorcé (divorced). Your line starts with “cel”, célibataire, single.

Apparently your Fiche Individuelle had also a photo of your father, and his fingerprints. That let me think it was even more a document like ID-card, given to persons which are not nationals, but residents (whatever that could mean after WWII, residents of Europe after WWII turmoil), and have to be identified, even if they are stateless, former PoW, former forced labor, civils left on the road, etc.

2.
When I follow your dates and places on the map, it looks like Mussbach camp for 3 years, then, 3 years later decisions to move towards North, almost to Koblenz [intention to go to the US?], then U-turn, 1500 km to Naples, then another U-turn, and more than 800 km to Trieste [emigration to Australia]. Turmoil after WWII.

12 June 1946: Mussbach seems to be a little river, near Neustadt an der Weinstrasse, Germany
http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mu%C3%9Fbach_%28Rehbach%29
Then, 3 years later:
11 April 1949: Kaiserslautern, Germany
Niederlahnstein, Germany
Simmern, Germany
29 September 1949: transfer to Naples, Italy
20 October 1949: emigrated to Australia from Trieste, Italy

3.
The place of birth: Bazar, Poland is not unique in Poland. Three Bazar in today Poland: Bazar, Masovian Voivodeship. Bazar, Łódź Voivodeship, Bazar, Lublin Voivodeship
The old geography book from 1880-1900 gives 5 villages Bazar, and tells a nice story about King Sobieski and Bazar in the county Krasnystaw.
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_I/120

I wish you find more.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:21 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:21 am

a document I have called Fiche Individuelle has a photo of my father, with the information listed above in the last chapter
Document number is 64672,
followed by fingerprints.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Michael Orlik/Orlig 28/09/1925 need help with translation

lindyloo40 — Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:54 am

Author: lindyloo40

Posted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 12:54 am

Hello all, after many years of searching, I finally have some documents, but I have little understanding of them. I would love to trace relatives still living, and would appreciate any help anyone can offer me.

The document I have is from my Father's records.

Name ORLIK/ORLIG Michael.
Born 28/09/1925 Bazar Poland.

Nationality: Polish

12 June 1946 registered in Mussbach, district Neustadt a.d.Weinstrasse

Archival unit 3.1.1.1, Doc.ID. 68478693

Archival unit 3.1.1.1, Doc.ID. 68478685; 68478686; 68478687

11 April 1949 registered in Kaiserslautern – coming from Niederlahnstein

Archival unit 3.1.1.1, Doc.ID. 68478689

at a date not

indicated registered in district Simmern

Archival unit 3.1.1.1, Doc.ID. 68478694 and 68478695

29 September 1949 transferred from Resettlement Center Lahr to Naples

Archival unit 3.1.3.2, Doc.ID. 81742937 and 81742959

20 October 1949 emigrated to Australia from Trieste aboard the ship

“Dundalk Bay“

Archival unit 3.1.3.2, Doc.ID. 81785535 and 81785557

On a document carte dentity it says
Address....Mussbach
Cerele do........Neustadt
Situatione de famille....cel