PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Need help understanding this - passport needed?

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:25 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 8:25 am

Sophia wrote:

I have a slightly different take on this than Elzbieta does. I agree completely with her view of why the passport was suddenly necessary, but I believe that it was not a Polish-issued passport (dowod osobisty) but rather a U.S.-issued passport. The initials "C.G." that you see with the passport number on the ship manifet mean Consulate General and while it is not specified whose Consulate General, I think these were passports issued by the U.S. Consulate in Warsaw (and of course various other cities in other countries) to U.S. citizens abroad.
Best regards,
Sophia

Sophia,

You are right.

issued Washington
issued C G Warsaw
issued C G Prague
issued C G Zagreb
sometimes empty lines
List of passengers arriving to the US, US passport holders and aliens.

I just feel like at JFK immigration, going to non-US passport holders queue

Thanks!
Elzbieta

Re: Need help understanding this - passport needed?

Sophia — Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:53 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 7:53 am

I have a slightly different take on this than Elzbieta does. I agree completely with her view of why the passport was suddenly necessary, but I believe that it was not a Polish-issued passport (dowod osobisty) but rather a U.S.-issued passport. The initials "C.G." that you see with the passport number on the ship manifet mean Consulate General and while it is not specified whose Consulate General, I think these were passports issued by the U.S. Consulate in Warsaw (and of course various other cities in other countries) to U.S. citizens abroad.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Need help understanding this

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:46 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 2:46 am

lkocanda wrote:

I found a father and son last name Kocanda going to Europe in 1920 and the son returned alone..but I was wondering if the son needed a passport to go to Europe if he was born in the USA in 1908..Also His return looks like he had to get a passport in Warsaw...
Please help me understand this..
Thanks.

Hi,

I think your passeport question is very much related to the travels after WWI, including Nansen passport (see Fridtjof Nansen) for stateless and refugees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nansen_passport

The site of Canada's gov have an excellent short explanation
http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/games/teachers-corner/history-passports.asp

Quote:

The rising popularity of rail travel in the mid-19th century led to an explosion of tourism throughout Europe and caused a complete breakdown in the European passport and visa system. In answer to the crisis, France abolished passports and visas in 1861. Other European countries followed suit, and by 1914, passport requirements had been eliminated practically everywhere in Europe. However, World War I brought renewed concerns for international security, and passports and visas were again required, as a "temporary" measure.

Your second jpg gives passports for persons from various countries in Europe, not only Poland, issued in 1930 or 1931
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/image_823.jpg

Polish wiki explains Polish ID history with pics
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dow%C3%B3d_osobisty_w_Polsce
... translating History:

Quote:

After WWI in Poland - in 1920s and early 1930s - the name “dowód osobisty”="identity card" was used for a document required for international travel. It served as a de facto passport (despite the name "ID card" on the cover, the name passport was printed inside). The fee for the issuance was high: in June 1923 it was 90 000 Polish marka, and in 1930 it was 101 Polish zloty.

It could be that in 1920 Kocanda father and son could travel to Europe without passport, but later Kocanda son needed a travel document, and that was Polish ID-card aka passport.

US passport wiki have answeres:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_passport

On more general level: it took a lot of time to establish international universal global system to identify all countries, used by passports, the firts ISO3166 tables with alpha-2 codes (such as US, FR, DE, etc. you know it well, it's used by Internet domain names too) were issued in 1974.

Best,
Elzbieta

Need help understanding this - passport needed?

lkocanda — Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:39 pm

Author: lkocanda

Posted: Sun Apr 12, 2015 9:39 pm

I found a father and son last name Kocanda going to Europe in 1920 and the son returned alone..but I was wondering if the son needed a passport to go to Europe if he was born in the USA in 1908..Also His return looks like he had to get a passport in Warsaw...
Please help me understand this..
Thanks.