PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri May 22, 2015 1:48 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 1:48 pm

jacekhejza wrote:

Hello again and Happy Friday!

I will post this afternoon with a quick update, but, I received a correspondence from the Nun this morning and I was wondering if you could please translate her message, as time permits.

Thank you,

~ Jacek

pozdrawiam. Proszę podać nazwisko Henryka. Napiszę do tej parafii. Napiszę do Tucholi i zapytam o siostrę dziadka Waleriana. Żeby odszukać groby muszę znać miejsce zgonu i kiedy zmarli.
U nas w archiwum jest protokół przedślubny dziadka, był spisany u nas. I dlatego miała wiadomości o dziadku. s. Kinga. Czekam na nazwisko

Jacek,

Here it is.

Best,
Elzbieta
==

Greetings. Please provide the name of Henryk. I will write to the parish. I will write to Tuchola and ask for the sister of grandfather Walerian. To find their graves I need to know the place of death and when they died.
In our archive we have a prenuptial protocol of your grandfather, it was written with us. That’s why the Nun Sister Kinga had information about your grandfather. I am waiting for the name [of Henryk]

==

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Fri May 22, 2015 9:47 am

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Fri May 22, 2015 9:47 am

Hello again and Happy Friday!

I will post this afternoon with a quick update, but, I received a correspondence from the Nun this morning and I was wondering if you could please translate her message, as time permits.

Thank you,

~ Jacek

pozdrawiam. Proszę podać nazwisko Henryka. Napiszę do tej parafii. Napiszę do Tucholi i zapytam o siostrę dziadka Waleriana. Żeby odszukać groby muszę znać miejsce zgonu i kiedy zmarli.
U nas w archiwum jest protokół przedślubny dziadka, był spisany u nas. I dlatego miała wiadomości o dziadku. s. Kinga. Czekam na nazwisko

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Tue May 19, 2015 6:48 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:48 pm

jacekhejza wrote:

1. Given all the information that we have now on Walerian Hejza, do we know what "zone" and town in France to request his birth certificate? Is it zone 62 like we thought before and is the 1 of the 300 or so towns (on average) we needed for the birth certificate, Bruay-la-Buissière, postal code 62700?

We have everything ready to ask for French record. You shall do it yourself, I prepared a step-by-step attached below.

Quote:

2. So, it appears that he moved to Poland when he was 16 or 17. Our family history was that when they moved back they settled in Zielona Góra, but, this makes me believe that they settled in Białobłocie (Złotów). I don't see, Białobłocie (Złotów) on the list below of the last known areas where Hejzas were known to live, so which of the list below are the closest to Białobłocie (Złotów)?

m. Bydgoszcz (26)
Rypin (12)
m. Płock (12)
Choszczno (11)
Bytów (9)
Słupsk (9)
Lipno (
m. Białystok (5)
m. Konin (4)
Świdwin (4)

The closest to Białobłocie (Złotów):
Bytów,
Słupsk,
Świdwin
Choszczno
all the above in the North-West of Poland.

Quote:

3. I'm sure that burial records are hard to search, but do you think it is worth a search for burial records for Pawel and Maria Hejza in either Bruay-en-Artois, France (in case they went back there to retire or Białobłocie (Złotów)?

Walerian was 16 when they moved back to Poland in 1947. His parents were less than 50 (my guess), why do you think they passed away in France?

Quote:

4. Very interesting that the church in France, is actually a Polish church, is that correct? I supposed there is no way of knowing when Pawel and Maria Hejza moved to France or even if it was their parents that moved to France and they met in France. I believe you mentioned that many people moved from Poland to France in the 1910s and 1920s... What was the reason for this mass emigration?

In addition to Dave explanation:
1920 is after the WWI, 2 million people died in France and Germany, no single family without a man killed in Verdun or in Ardennes, in each tiny French village there is a Monument aux Morts, with names of young men killed during WWI.
France needed people to work in mines, and made agreements with Poland and other countries. The whole villages have been constructed in mines areas, to accomodate workers with families.

Quote:

5. Any other thoughts or areas/ways that you think I can continue my search based on this information? Or, if you were me, what other or next piece of information would I need to find in order to take the next step?

I am puzzled by Białobłocie (Złotów), and would ask the Nun if she knows anything about it.

The logic would be to try to get Pawel Hejza birth record. The same for his wife Maria Duda.

Eventually, where did they live before going to the US?

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Latin Words In Baptismal Certificate

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Tue May 19, 2015 6:03 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 6:03 pm

dnowicki wrote:

Elzbieta---you still get an "A" for your translation of the Latin after the few corrections.

Dave

Dave,

"after the few corrections"
Thank you!

I am going to correct my typing:
Chapel Poland -> Chapel for the Poles
Communione et Confirmatione -> Communio et Confirmatio
Nothing worst that persisting mistakes, well entrenched with Google engine help

No excuse for the second line – I did check with Google translate, “communion et confirmation” from French to Latin, then similar from Polish to Latin, and English to Latin, and in each case it was not ”Communio et Confirmatio”. Instead of trusting my eyes, I gave up for mistake, shame on me.

Re: Gallia
Do you know Astérix le Gaulois and Obélix, two charming characters by Uderzo and Goscinny living in Gaule?
This pic may refresh your memory http://www.asterix.com/la-collection/les-albums/visu/alb01fr.png
... and Wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asterix_the_Gaul
All French, 65 millions, know that we are Gaulois, that our ancestors were Gaulois, that our pesky mood is because we are Gaulois, that le coq gaulois - Gallic rooster – is an unofficial national symbol of France as a nation.
Still any doubt about Gallia

Best,
Elzbieta

Latin Words In Baptismal Certificate

dnowicki — Tue May 19, 2015 9:08 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 9:08 am

Elzbieta & Jacek,

A couple of comments regarding the Latin in the baptismal certificate---The words Cappellanus Polonorum actually mean "Chaplain of the Poles" and so combining Cappella with Polonorum would mean "Chapel of the Poles". The two phrases could be rendered in more common American English usage as "Chapel for the Poles" and "Chaplain for the Poles." While the change is not major, it better reflects how the Chapel of the Sacred Heart of Jesus fits into the organizational scheme of the Catholic Church in that area. In most of the word Catholic parishes are organized on the basis of geographical territory---one area = one parish. So the chapel for the Poles was not exactly a Polish parish in the strict sense of the term but was a subdivision of the territorial parish of the area as a mission to serve the religious needs of Poles living in that part of France. The way parishes were structured in the USA during the period of great immigration until WWI was quite different. There were territorial parishes (parishes where the majority of the members were Irish) but within the "territory" of these parishes there were also "ethnic" parishes which were designed to serve the needs of Catholics for whom English was not their primary language. In the area of Chicago where I grew up there were two territorial parishes---St. Patrick's and St. Bride's but within the territory of those two parishes there were a number of ethnic parishes---Immaculate Conception, St. Michael, St. Mary Magdalene and St. Bronislawa (usually spelled in the Latin version as Bronislava) (Polish), St. Joseph (Lithuanian), Our Lady of Guadalupe (Mexican), St. George (Croatian), and SS. Peter & Paul (German). Each of these were parishes with their own pastor. From the wording on the certificate, Sacred Heart was not a parish but a chapel staffed by a priest who was a "chaplain" who did not have the same church authority as a pastor but was there to serve the needs of Poles. Granted that in every day life the chapel functioned as a parish, but according to Catholic Church organization it was not a parish.

A short Latin lesson---The Latin word for Poland is Polonia which is different from the Latin word for a Pole (i.e. a person from Poland). The Latin word for a Pole is Polanus (masculine) and Polana (feminine). Polanorum is the Genitive Plural and means "of the Poles". The Latin words for Poland and Poles are derived from the name of one of the Slavic tribes which inhabited the area near Poznan and Gniezno during the 10th Century. The tribe was the Polanie and Mieszko, the first of the Piasts, was the ruler of the Polanie.

Gallia is one Latin word used to designate France but another Latin word for France is Francia. Gallia was the term the ancient Romans used to describe the area which became a Roman Province after the conquest by Julius Caesar. Caesar begins his commentaries on the Gallic War with the well-known lines: "Gallia est omnis divisa in partes tres, quarum unam incolunt Belgae, aliam Aquitani, tertiam, qui ipsorum lingua Celtae, nostra Galli appelantur." ("All Gaul is divided into three parts, of which the Belgae inhabit one, another the Aquitani, the third, those who are called in their own language Celts and in our (language), Gauls." Just as the name Poland is derived from the name of one regional tribe, so too the name Gallia/Gaul is derived from the name of one of the tribes which inhabited the area. The ancient Belgae gave their name to the country of Belgium and the Aquitani to the area of France known as Aquitaine. The area the Romans knew as Gallia was not geographically identical to the area of modern France but since modern France encompasses the largest part of the Roman Province of Gallia the name is one of those used for France.

The last part of today's lesson is a minor correction to the wording of the notation on the certificate---it reads "Communio et Confirmatio". Communione et Confirmatione are the same words but in the Ablative Case. On the record they are in the Nominative, as is required by Latin grammar.

The great period of emigration from Poland began around 1870 and lasted until WWI and although emigrants from Poland during that period did settle in France as well as in other places in Europe, the majority of emigrants left Europe mainly for North & South America. The main motivation for this emigration was the search for better living conditions. World War I basically put the trans-Atlantic immigration to the Americas on hold beginning in the late summer of 1914. During the War the conditions which caused people to emigrate from Poland had not improved but with immigration to the Americas being almost nonexistent, other locations became ever more desirable and practical. After the War a quota system was put into place in the U.S.A. which again made immigration to other countries easier and thus more attractive for those leaving Poland for better opportunities.

Elzbieta---you still get an "A" for your translation of the Latin after the few corrections.

Dave

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Tue May 19, 2015 5:49 am

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 5:49 am

Elzbieta,

Thank you for such a wonderful and translation!!! I can't believe all the information that was uncovered!

A couple thoughts and/or questions, I would appreciate your input on....

1. Given all the information that we have now on Walerian Hejza, do we know what "zone" and town in France to request his birth certificate? Is it zone 62 like we thought before and is the 1 of the 300 or so towns (on average) we needed for the birth certificate, Bruay-la-Buissière, postal code 62700?

2. So, it appears that he moved to Poland when he was 16 or 17. Our family history was that when they moved back they settled in Zielona Góra, but, this makes me believe that they settled in Białobłocie (Złotów). I don't see, Białobłocie (Złotów) on the list below of the last known areas where Hejzas were known to live, so which of the list below are the closest to Białobłocie (Złotów)?

m. Bydgoszcz (26)
Rypin (12)
m. Płock (12)
Choszczno (11)
Bytów (9)
Słupsk (9)
Lipno (
m. Białystok (5)
m. Konin (4)
Świdwin (4)

3. I'm sure that burial records are hard to search, but do you think it is worth a search for burial records for Pawel and Maria Hejza in either Bruay-en-Artois, France (in case they went back there to retire or Białobłocie (Złotów)?

4. Very interesting that the church in France, is actually a Polish church, is that correct? I supposed there is no way of knowing when Pawel and Maria Hejza moved to France or even if it was their parents that moved to France and they met in France. I believe you mentioned that many people moved from Poland to France in the 1910s and 1920s... What was the reason for this mass emigration?

5. Any other thoughts or areas/ways that you think I can continue my search based on this information? Or, if you were me, what other or next piece of information would I need to find in order to take the next step?

I had no idea that this journey would take me deep into France! How lucky am I that you are the main contributor and are located in Paris, France!

Thank you very much, as always,

Jacek!

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Mon May 18, 2015 6:01 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 6:01 pm

jacekhejza wrote:

Thank you Elzbieta,

I was post soon to provide a quick update.

However, my father, this week, will go over to my Uncle's house to look through a box of pictures and important documents. I told him what would be the most helpful, so I will post when I see what he uncovers.

Also, The fantastic nun who has been helping me in Katowice, sent the following three items in the mail, which I received today.

If you could please translate any of the pertinent or important information. It appears that my grandfather's birth certificate was included, but I am not sure if it is the official French one and if it will contain the town that we are looking for. Let me know what you think! So, exciting to get more information!

Look forward to your post / comments,

Jacek

Jacek,

You are right to praise the fantastic nun - she made an extraordinary job. She not only posted the certificate of baptism from France, and the marriage certificate from Katowice, but also a little piece of paper indicating in which cities and when Walerian Hejza have been residing, and that is priceless.

Here are all the three scans typed, translated, and commented when I had something to note.

Best,
Elzbieta

==
CORRECTION: two mistakes
Chapel Poland -> Chapel for the Poles
Communione et Confirmatione -> Communio et Confirmatio

==PO199:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/img005_670.jpg
where and when Walerian Hejza have been residing

WALERIAN HEJZA syn Pawła i Marii zd. (z domu) Duda
Zawód: technik górniczy
Mieszkał: do roku 1947 w Bruay – Francja
od 1947 do 1948 w Białobłocie (Złotów)
od 1948 do 1949 w Tarnowskie Góry
od 1949 do 1953 w Zabrze
od 1953 Katowice Murcki
//
WALERIAN HEJZA son of Paweł and Maria born Duda
Occupation: mining technician
Residing: until 1947 Bruay-en-Artois, France [NOTE1]
from 1947 to 1948 in Białobłocie (Złotów)
from 1948 to 1949 in Tarnowskie Góry
from 1949 to 1953 w Zabrze
since 1953 Katowice Murcki

NOTE1: In 1987 Bruay-en-Artois merged with Labuissière to form Bruay-la-Buissière, postal code 62700
NOTE2: Tarnowskie Góry, Zabrze and Katowice Murcki are close. But there is circa 500 km between Białobłocie (Złotów) in north-west Poland and Tarnowskie Góry.
Złotów http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z%C5%82ot%C3%B3w
Remember http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/hejza.html
==

==PO199:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/img006_194.jpg
BAPTISM Record in Latin from France, Bruay-en-Artois

LATIN:
CAPPELLANUS POLONORUM
Bruay-en-Artois
Gallia // name of France in Latin

TESTIMONIUM BAPTISMI
Nr 94/ 1931 an.

Nomen et cognomen: Valerianus HEJZA
Parentes: Paulus HEJZA et Maria DUDA
Dies et locus ortus: 6 Martii 1931
Bruay-en-Artois, Pas de Calais, France
Dies et locus Baptismi: 22 Martii 1931
Capelle sacratissimi Cordis Jesu Bruay-en-Artois, Pas de Calais, France
Patrini: Franciscus HEJZA et Stanislava DUDA
Annotationes: Communio et Confirmatio: 1942
Round seal CAPPELLANUS POLONORUM
Signature (illegible)
Bruay, die 9 Februarii 1954

TRANSLATED:

Chapel for the Poles
Bruay-en-Artois
Gallia // name of France in Latin

Certificate of Baptism
No. 94/1931 year

Name and surname: Walerian HEJZA
Parents: Paweł HEJZA and Maria DUDA
Date and place of birth: 6 March 1931
Bruay-en-Artois, Pas de Calais, France
Date and place of Baptism: 22 March 1931
Chapel of the Sacred Heart of Jesus Bruay-en-Artois, Pas de Calais, France
Godparents: Franciszek HEJZA and Stanisława DUDA
Annotations: Communion and Confirmation: 1942
Round seal Chapel for the Poles
Signature (illegible)
Bruay, 9 February 1954

NOTE3: Name of the Chapel in French and Polish, as well as the website
// Chapelle du Sacré Cœur de Bruay la Buissière
http://www.bruay.tchr.fr/fr/nos-chapelles.html
// Kaplica Najświętszego Serca Pana Jezusa w Bruay la Buissière
http://www.bruay.tchr.fr/pl

==
==PO199:
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/img004_946.jpg
MARRIAGE RECORD from Katowice, in Polish and in Latin

Seal:
PARAFIA RZYMSKO-KATOLICKA // Roman-Catholic Parish
Św. Ludwika, Króla i Wniebowzięcia NMP
PRZY KLASZTORZE FRANCISZKANÓW // AT FRANCISCAN MONASTERY
40-760 KATOWICE, ul. Panewnicka 76
tel. (032) 2526870; e-mail: parafia@panewniki.pl

ŚWIADECTWO ŚLUBU // MARRIAGE CERTIFICATE
Testimonium matrimonii contracti

Rok i numer księgi zaślubionych: // Year and number of the book of marriages: 1954 / 21
/Annus et numerus libri matrimoniorum/

LINES NUMBERED and TRANSLATED:
L1: Imię i nazwisko // First and last name
/Nomen, cognomen/
L2: Imiona rodziców // Names of parents
/Nomina patris et matris/
L3: Data i miejsce urodzenia // Date and place of birth
/Dies et locus nativitatis/
L4: Wyznanie (obrządek) // Religion (rite)
/Religio (ritus)/
L5: Data i miejsce ślubu (parafia) // Date and place of the marriage (parish)
/Dies et locus matrimonii contracti/
L6: Duchowny asystujący // Assistant clergyman
/Assistens/
L7: Świadkowie // Witnesses
/Testes/

L8: Miejsce i data // Place and date
/Locus et dies/

HANDWRITTEN INFORMATION ABOUT GROOM and BRIDE
MAŁŻONEK // GROOM
/SPONSUS/
L1: Walerian Hejza
L2: Paweł i Maria zd. (z domu) Duda // Paweł and Maria born Duda
L3: 06.03.1931 Bruay Francja // 6 March 1931, Bruay-en-Artois, France
L4: rzym-kat // Roman Catholic

MAŁŻONKA // BRIDE
/SPONSA/
L1: Leokadia Bazińska
L2: Antoni i Maria Skrzypek // Antoni and Maria Skrzypek
L3: 11.11.1925 Goliszowiec Lubelski // 11 November 1925 Goliszowiec Lubelski
L4: rzym-kat // Roman Catholic

COMMON LINES FOR GROOM and BRIDE:
L5: 27.02.1954 Katowice Panewniki // 27 February 1954, Katowice Panewniki
L6: O. (Ojciec) Serafin Niedbała ofm // Father Serafin Niedbała ofm
L7: Baziński Stefan, Pelec Tadeusz

Round Red Seal: BASILICA O.F.M. Officium Parachiale Panewniki

L8: Katowice, 11.05.2015 // 11 May 2015

Potwierdzam zgodność z księga zaślubionych // I confirm compliance with the book of marriages
/Concordat cum libro matrimoniorum/
w/z (w zastępstwie) // in place of
s. (Nun Sister) Kinga Stępniewska
/Proboszcz/Parochus/

==

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Mon May 18, 2015 12:11 pm

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Mon May 18, 2015 12:11 pm

Thank you Elzbieta,

I was post soon to provide a quick update.

However, my father, this week, will go over to my Uncle's house to look through a box of pictures and important documents. I told him what would be the most helpful, so I will post when I see what he uncovers.

Also, The fantastic nun who has been helping me in Katowice, sent the following three items in the mail, which I received today.

If you could please translate any of the pertinent or important information. It appears that my grandfather's birth certificate was included, but I am not sure if it is the official French one and if it will contain the town that we are looking for. Let me know what you think! So, exciting to get more information!

Look forward to your post / comments,

Jacek

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Tue May 12, 2015 4:59 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Tue May 12, 2015 4:59 am

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

jacekhejza wrote:

If somehow we can get of list of the cities in France 62, I am willing to speak with my Father and my aunts and uncles, to see if any of them ring a bell. I am not sure what site you are using, but if there are 100 cities, for example, I will take the time to try each and every one. I think once we find 1 for my grandfather, the other 4 or 5 will be the same.

Walerian was born in 1931 (3/6/1931 to be specific) and my grandmother in 1925. If we don't have the city, given my birth certificate, my father's and the exact date. Maybe they can make an exception for not having the exact city!

France is the craziest country of the world, we have 30000 villages, each one with its own registry (for 99 departments), that makes 300 villages per department on average.

The list for department 62, Pas de Calais, is here:
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liste_des_communes_du_Pas-de-Calais

There was a number of mines in this departments, some of villages have a name with "Mines", it is still too much.

If I find few minutes on Monday I will call them and ask if it's possible to have a "manual" request without the name of village (it's better to fill a form on line).

UPDATE: 12 May 2015

I called this Tuesday morning Arras, and got following answer:

- no central information about births per departement in France
- if you do not know the place, you have to write explaining your case to all 300+ places, paper letter including answer enveloppe, they will search; if they do not find, they will send you back the empty answer enveloppe; the search in itself is free, but 300 paper letters ....
- they do not have any information today where mines were located in Pas de Calais (to shorten the list)
- and yes, they know, how bad it is

Could you tell me if Walerian Hejza date of birth: 3/6/1931 is 3 June or 6 March?

Do you have anything from that time, any postcard from France, any piece of paper, train ticket, contract, miner pension, just anything? On a postcard or letter stamp I could see the name of place. Maybe an annotated picture souvenir (like the wedding one), with name of place?
Maybe something on the marriage record of Walerian and Leokadia in Poland?

Maybe Leokadia could recall something?

2ND UPDATE: 12 May 2015

Well, knowing that coal mines were very well organized by French, I was able to find 1433 pages PDF files with all miners of one very large group, Houilleres du Bassin du Nord Pas-de-Calais, in Pas de Calais ... but alas, only born up to 1900. It contains 53688 names with birth dates, no Hejza inside.

Then I went digging more, in Wiki
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bassin_minier_du_Nord-Pas-de-Calais

I noted that Poles were making up 40 to 45 % of the population in two cities: Marles-les-Mines and Sallaumines

Maybe those two names ring a bell?

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Mon May 11, 2015 7:47 pm

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:47 pm

I came across something today when speaking about my family history with my father. As a result, I posted what he said below to see if anyone knows anything more about this...

A memory of Leokadia Bazinski Hejza....

When she was a little girl she remembered her grandfather walking in white robes.. like a night gown, but usually reserved for nobility like barons or lords etc ... That is what she told ... this happened before most of her brothers and sisters were born (she was born in 1924) .... That's about all I have...

Thanks!

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Mon May 11, 2015 7:48 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 7:48 am

jacekhejza wrote:

Elzbieta or Community Member,

Would you be so kind and translate this latest message from the Nun who is helping me getting the marriage certificate. I have cut and pasted it in various translation software, but, I am getting some conflicting translations in key parts. Is there one piece of software or a website that people use for polish to english or vice versa that is better than the others? Just curious. Thanks and hope everyone had an enjoyable and relaxing weekend.

Jacek

Pozdrawiam! Dzisiaj wysyłam do Ameryki świadectwo ślubu Dziadków. Mnie jeszcze interesuje czy dziadek był głównym dyrektorem kopalni i w jakich latach, czy był dyrektorem jakiegoś działu w kopalni. Proszę nie wysyłać żadnych pieniędzy. Czynię to bo chcę i sprawia mi to wielką radośc. Nie czynię tego dla zapłaty. proszę nie odbierać mi tej radości. Zapraszam do nas. Mieszkam przy bazylice o. Franciszkanów. Jest nas pięć sióstr we własnym domu. Jeżeli Pan chce to mogę też niektóre zdania poprawić jak prawidłowo je wypowiadać. Z Bogiem. s. Kinga\\

Jacek,

Here it is.

Best,
Elzbieta

==

Greetings! Today we send to the US the marriage certificate of your Grandparents. I am still interested to know if your grandfather was the chief of mine, and in what years, or if he was managing director of a department in the mine. Please do not send any money. I do this work because I want to, and it gives me a great joy. I do not do it for money, so please do not remove me this joy. I welcome you to visit us. I live near the Basilica of Fathers Franciscans. We are five nuns at home. If you want, I can also make corrections to some sentences, so you know how to properly speak them. With God. Nun Sister Kinga.
==

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Mon May 11, 2015 6:13 am

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Mon May 11, 2015 6:13 am

Elzbieta or Community Member,

Would you be so kind and translate this latest message from the Nun who is helping me getting the marriage certificate. I have cut and pasted it in various translation software, but, I am getting some conflicting translations in key parts. Is there one piece of software or a website that people use for polish to english or vice versa that is better than the others? Just curious. Thanks and hope everyone had an enjoyable and relaxing weekend.

Jacek

Pozdrawiam! Dzisiaj wysyłam do Ameryki świadectwo ślubu Dziadków. Mnie jeszcze interesuje czy dziadek był głównym dyrektorem kopalni i w jakich latach, czy był dyrektorem jakiegoś działu w kopalni. Proszę nie wysyłać żadnych pieniędzy. Czynię to bo chcę i sprawia mi to wielką radośc. Nie czynię tego dla zapłaty. proszę nie odbierać mi tej radości. Zapraszam do nas. Mieszkam przy bazylice o. Franciszkanów. Jest nas pięć sióstr we własnym domu. Jeżeli Pan chce to mogę też niektóre zdania poprawić jak prawidłowo je wypowiadać. Z Bogiem. s. Kinga\\

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Sun May 10, 2015 12:14 pm

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 12:14 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

jacekhejza wrote:

(2) The whole Bazinski with an "S" is a huge revelation to me. I will ask my father and relatives, as maybe it was a simple mistake made by the person who was filling out the birth certificate; however, that means doing research on Basinski instead or or in addition to Bazinski.

... etc

Jacek,

I wonder if you are not going astray with your supposition about Silesia as the land of your ancestors.

The birth record of Waldemar Hejza states he was born in 1955 in Stalowa Wola.
His parents were born (father in France) and mother in 1925 in Goliszowice, today Goliszowiec, which is in the middle of very large forests Lasy Janowskie, less than 10 km North of Stalowa Wola.
“Maria Skrzypek (Bazinski) was born nearby in Maliniec, Poland” it is within the same parish as Goliszowiec – Zaklikow.

There is a fantastic tool made by Austrian with Google, you have superposition of old maps and new ones, you may see how it was
http://mapire.eu/en/map/hkf_75e/
Make opacity (top-center of the window) at circa 50%
Zoom to see Stalowa Wola – it was within Austrian empire, not in Silesia, it is Galicia.
Stalowa Wola in Wikipedia in Polish
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalowa_Wola
have much more information that in Wikipedia in English
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stalowa_Wola
On Polish wiki, go to the bottom, line
Powiat niżański (1920-39 i 1945-73) (► II RP)
Click on [pokaz] on the right, you will see that Stalowa Wola was part to Lwow (Lviv today) voivodeship

Please have a look on the Curzon Line in 1945:
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linia_Curzona
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linia_Curzona#/media/File:Curzon_linia.svg
After the WWII Poland „moved to the West” - very large populations from the Eastern part moved Westward, it was very large migration, Germans were leaving West side to Germany, abandoning their places, and Poles from the Eastern parts, spoiled after WWII deals, were going there, they needed a place to live. Besides that Poland lost universities, including the one in Lwow, so new generations were going elsewhere, to Krakow, Wroclaw, Poznan.
Long story short, while in general you can trace any family roots based on the place they lived before WWII, it is very much hazardous afterwards.

Your College professor gave you an explanation about possible migration of your ancestors. In Europe populations have been migrating quite a lot, it is part of our history. We had invasions, but there was a lot of ordinary people from western parts of Europe going east, especially when Polish kings were offering them privileged conditions to settle in cities or on the land and cultivate it. We also had people following Napoleon and going from France to the middle of Russia. When they settled in Poland, their names got modified. As long as the large majority of persons did not know how to write and read, the names evolved according to scribe’s ears.

BTW, do you know this tool, showing you distribution of names in current Poland
http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/hejza.html
or in Germany
http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/heise.html
http://www.verwandt.de/karten/absolut/heis.html

Re: Basiński
The good side of Polish names is that we have always etymology: Basiński and Baziński are different (for Polish ears they are indeed different).

According to Stankiewicze http://www.stankiewicze.com/index.php?kat=44&sub=531

Basiński - od bas ‘niski głos męski, człowiek mówiący niskim głosem’, basy ‘instrument muzyczny’, też od imienia Sebastian; w formach pochodnych trudno odróżnić od nazw osobowych na Basz .
//
Basiński - from bas+niski, =bass+low, low male voice, the man speaking in a low voice; bass is musical instrument; also from the name of Sebastian; in related derived forms it’s difficult to distinguish from personal names starting with Basz.

Baziński - od imienia Bazyli, notowanego w Polsce od XIII wieku. Imię pochodzenia greckiego od basileus ‘wódz, król’. Na Rusi miało formę Wasilij, Wayl.
//
Baziński - from the name of Bazyli=Basil, recorded in Poland since the thirteenth century. Name of Greek origin from basileus 'leader, king'. In Russia it took the form of Vasily, Wayl.

Re: your picture
http://polishorigins.com/forum/files/img002_173.jpg
“My grandfather, Walerian Henryk Hejza, in what I believe to be traditional Polish attire. Does anyone know any specifics in regards to his outfit?”
That is a picture every tourist going to Polish Tatras after WWII was bringing back home. I have one too (as a kid).
==

Good luck for more digging.
Elzbieta

Elzbieta,

I agree and think you are right on the money. I have been thinking along the same lines as you, in recent days.

On the Bazinski / Basinski side of the family, my grandmother Leokadia (my father, Waldemar Jacek Hejza's mother) was one of 11 brothers and sisters. Fortunately, some of them are still living and able to tell me more about that side of the family. Given what we have uncovered thus far (1) my father was born on vacation in Stalowa Wola (2) Leokadia (my grandmother was born in Goliszowiec (3) my great grandfather (Antoni Bazinski) was born in Golszowiec (4) my great grandmother (Maria Skrzypek) was born just a stone's throw away in Maliniec... that is all a really tight group and a very small area where that side of the family originated in recent history. Also, it's amazing you mentioned Lazy, because my Grandmother used that word a lot to describe the areas (lots of trees / forrest) and the only reason they survived when the Nazis came to exterminate them was that when they lined them all up to be killed in a line, they ran for the forest and don't know if the Nazis shot over their heads, missing their shots or shot over their heads on purpose letting them live. So all o this makes a lot of sense on this side.

The Silesian Cities like Katowice, Tychy and Zlotoryia (Just north of Jelenia Gora) are all much more recent and may not have any significance. My new hypothesis or idea is that my grandfather was born in North France and at some point when his family came back to Poland they decided to settle in Zlotoryia (maybe due to the tremendous amount of coal mines in the area). My grandfather, as a young adult served in the Polish military, as required, and when he finished he went looking for a job. As the story goes in our family, my grandmother was working at a place and she assigned jobs for people. She met my grandfather and assigned him to a good job at a coal mine and they began dating. So, my grandmother simply moved from the Golszowiec area to the Katowice area for this good job assigning people to jobs and my grandfather went to the big city of Katowice looking for work. They later moved to Tychy just around the time my dad was born and then they came to the United States.

The fact that some many more hejza's are in the north of poland and that is where the last surviving sisters address was, tells me a lot of where the Hejza family most likely was before going to France.

I can't wait to read up on all the links you provided this afternoon. It will be a wonderful sunday afternoon leisure activity. Thanks! Have you given any thought in regards to searching based on cemetery records, as well. Thanks!

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sun May 10, 2015 10:02 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 10:02 am

jacekhejza wrote:

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Sun May 10, 2015 6:54 am

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Sun May 10, 2015 6:54 am

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

jacekhejza wrote:

Quote:

(2) I see that twice on the birth certificate Bazinski was spelled with an "S" as in Basinski. Was this a mistake or is the Polish spelling of Bazinski, Basinski. Also, it appears that Basiński Wacław, my grandmother's brother is listed on the birth certificate. Why (as a witness)?

The name is Basinski, with "S". Basiński Wacław was declaring the birth.
I see I forgot to translate the sub-title:
DANE DOTYCZĄCE OSOBY (ZAKŁADU) ZGŁASZAJĄCEJ URODZENIE:
// Data regarding the person (or institution) declaring the birth.

Best,
Elzbieta

(1) Wow! 300 villages per department on average. That is unbelievable.

I completely agree and really appreciate you considering taking time out of your busy day (I'm sure), to make the call on my behalf. I can speak a bit of Polish, and took Spanish in high school for 3 years, but if I would have known some of my relatives / ancestors lived in France, I would have taken French and would have attempted to make the call myself. Anytime you are able to call, it doesn't have to be Monday, would be fantastic!

(2) The whole Bazinski with an "S" is a huge revelation to me. I will ask my father and relatives, as maybe it was a simple mistake made by the person who was filling out the birth certificate; however, that means doing research on Basinski instead or or in addition to Bazinski.

(3) Something that I woke up thinking about today is regarding how good the cemetery records are in Poland and if they have a regional or national database. In the United States, the best luck I have found finding information on relatives here is through very detailed burial records. So I was thinking, and I would appreciate your opinions if this is a good or bad idea, trying to find a cemetery that has a Pawel Hejza and Maria Hejza or Maria Duda Hejza either next to each other, in close proximity and if not at least at the same cemetery. Generally speaking, loved ones and families get married near each other or in the same cemeteries. The problem I have is, without finding a surviving relative, we would not be able to narrow it down much from the cemetery most likely being in Poland, but, possibly being in France (if they went back there when they retired). Let me know what you think about this method?

(4) Finally, I contacted a College Professor that specializes in Eastern European Languages and this is the information he was able to share with me about the Hejza surname. Some of you may find int interesting, so I decided to share it below. I was always told through family rumors that our surname "Hejza" was "made up", so I didn't pay much attention to it and I was disappointed that there isn't much history about it or that it doesn't have a coat of arms, etc. However, after reading this and if I am able to determine that at least for the entire 1900s and maybe even late 1800's Hejza was the official surname of my family (and I can't find any additional info through research), I think I will change my surname back from Haze to Hejza!!!! Very exciting news, at least for me .

"Hejza" comes from German proper name Heis which comes from Middle High German heis, heise ‘harsh, hoarse.’ There are numerous last names that came from the same root: Hejza, Hejzak, Hejzakiewicz, Hejze, Hejzyk, Hejża, Hejżak, etc., to quote just a few. Since you mentioned your family's roots are in Silesia, it is very probable your ancestors might have come from the vast area inhabited by German-speaking populace in the past. As a matter of fact, Silesia was one of the most backward regions of late medieval Polish state so the ruler(s) decided to attract some immigrants from Western Europe. These came from the territories that now belong to Germany and the Netherlands among others, and within a century Silesia became the richest province of the Polish crown."

As always, thank you all for your time and help.

Best Regards and Happy Weekend~

Jacek

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat May 09, 2015 5:36 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:36 pm

jacekhejza wrote:

Quote:

Re: Please help find family's Surname(Hejza?)-Donations provided

jacekhejza — Sat May 09, 2015 5:18 pm

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:18 pm

Thank you for the detailed translations! I learned some very interesting things, not only about my family history, but about Polish history and Polish history under the Communists. I'm so glad they have renamed all of the communist streets.

To be honest, the most I had ever heard about the Hejza family, before making major discoveries on this site over the past week , was when my grandfather was a young boy, they went to France for a period of time. Thus, I had or have no idea why they went to France or for how long (hence why i am trying to get in touch with any surviving relatives). I also did not know my grandfather was born in France and that it appears all of his brothers and sisters were as well. I didn't know where in France they were, so this discovery was truly amazing, not to mention the added information that this is a region where there are also coal mines. Thus, Pawel might have been a coal miner, as well and my grandfather just followed in his foot steps as a young man.

If somehow we can get of list of the cities in France 62, I am willing to speak with my Father and my aunts and uncles, to see if any of them ring a bell. I am not sure what site you are using, but if there are 100 cities, for example, I will take the time to try each and every one. I think once we find 1 for my grandfather, the other 4 or 5 will be the same.

Walerian was born in 1931 (3/6/1931 to be specific) and my grandmother in 1925. If we don't have the city, given my birth certificate, my father's and the exact date. Maybe they can make an exception for not having the exact city!

A couple quick questions about my father's birth certificate.

(1) So, it shows my family as being a miner and intellectual worker, correct? Does it also show my family as either pracownik fizyczny, klasa robotniczo - chłopska or klasa intelektualiści. I looked and did not see it, but wanted to make sure that I didn't miss it.

(2) I see that twice on the birth certificate Bazinski was spelled with an "S" as in Basinski. Was this a mistake or is the Polish spelling of Bazinski, Basinski. Also, it appears that Basiński Wacław, my grandmother's brother is listed on the birth certificate. Why (as a witness)?

Thank you again,

Happy Saturday!!!

Jacek

Basiński Wacław

Re: Most Recent Update -

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat May 09, 2015 11:06 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 11:06 am

jacekhejza wrote:

Two birth records

Here are translations of two birth records.

PO-hejza-Kolton-Barbara-6sep1955-Krakow.pdf
PO-hejza-Hejza-Waldemar-2jan1955-StalowaWola.pdf

Do you happen to know the place in France where Walerian was born? I looked up the department 62 site, and the searcher must indicate the place of birth first.

Best,
Elzbieta

==
NOTE1: about P5 and P6 lines in Waldemar's birth
P5: Year of birth of Hejza Walerian is missing. Place of birth is a country.
P5-P6: swapped lines in Leokadia’s column.
==
NOTE2: about communist terminology in Poland after WWII, cf. line P4 in Waldemar's birth

The communist classification was simple, so everyone could understand and feel comfortable.

Two categories of persons in communist Poland: pracownik fizyczny (working with his hands) vs pracownik umyslowy (working with his brains).
Two social classes: klasa robotniczo - chłopska (class of laborers and peasants, the first group in factories, the second in fields) and klasa intelektualiści (class of revisionists and enemies of real people, trying to think with uneducated brains).
==

Re: Most Recent Update -

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat May 09, 2015 6:02 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 6:02 am

jacekhejza wrote:

(3) My grandfather indeed was a miner per his marriage license and he lived in Katowice-Murcki on Waryńskiego street. Finally, my grandfather was born on 3/6/1931 in France.

KATOWICE: ul. Ludwika Waryńskiego has been renamed to ul. Pawła Kołodzieja in 1976
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zmiany_nazw_ulic_i_plac%C3%B3w_w_Katowicach
After so many years of communists in Poland, it was normal to make general cleaning up.
Even "Plac Komuny Paryskiej" in Warsaw named in memory of French 1871 communist mouvement in Paris has been renamed to Plac Wilsona.

That large Pawła Kołodzieja street is very close to the parish Murcki (Murcki is the name of the parish)
http://www.murcki.wiara.org.pl/historia,i2.html
The adress is:
ul. Solskiego 2 / 112
40-749 Katowice

The French rules are similar to Polish ones with BMD certificates: if you can demonstrate your ascendence/descendence, you can get it. I can help you with that with Etat Civil of the department 62. French cerificates are free of charge. The only problem you might have is a language.
Today in all countries of European Union you may ask for (recent) records in international form, which means in 3 or 4 languages (certainly the country language, but also additional ones, I think English and French is always provided). Then if such international certificate is possible for your father (from Polish office), then you will have it recognized by all European authorities, including French, and you are done.

I will translate your PDF Polish records later today.

Best,
Elzbieta

Most Recent Update -

jacekhejza — Sat May 09, 2015 5:13 am

Author: jacekhejza

Posted: Sat May 09, 2015 5:13 am

1. I was able to get in contact with a nun who works in the office at the church my grandparents got married at. She was able to provide me with the information I requested and will also send me a copy of their marriage certificate. Some of the interesting things that I found out from her were: (1) That my great grandparents were name Pawel Hejza and Maria Duda (2) The wedding date for my grandparents was February 27, 1954 (My father was born almost 9 months later on January 2, 1955, hahaha) (3) My grandfather indeed was a miner per his marriage license and he lived in Katowice-Murcki on Waryńskiego street. Finally, my grandfather was born on 3/6/1931 in France.

Also, It appears that in regards to all of the Bromboszcza Ligota talk, my grandfather and grandmother lived near the corner of current day Bromboszcza and Piotrowicka streets in Katowice.

This is all great information and no one in my surviving family knew that my great grandparents names were Pawel and Maria. Also, this is proof that if there was a surname change, it happened before my great grandparents. Unfortunately, I have no way or idea on how to take this back a step, even if I wanted to. I don't know if Pawel was born in France (I don't think so, but maybe) and if not, where he or Maria were from in order to try and locate either of their birth certificates or their marriage license. So, I may be at an impass there, unless I get lucky and find out that one of the Hejza's I am going to try to reach out to in Poland, is a direct relative and can provide some additional information or clues.

The Nun I have been working with is amazing and I will be donating to the church as a token of appreciation and in memory of my late grandfather and grandmother.

2. I also learned that my great grand parents, on the side of my grandmother, Leokadia Bazinski Hejza... were Antoni Bazinski (who was born in Goliszowiec, Poland.... near Stalowa Wola, Poland) and my great grand mother was Maria Skrzypek Bazinski) was born nearby in Maliniec, Poland.

3. During this process I was able to find my father's Polish birth certificate. He thought he had to surrender it when he got his American birth certificate, so this was a huge find. If anyone can translate any of the interesting or important on this birth certificate, i would very much appreciate it.

4. I understand that Poland has strict privacy laws, but I am going to do my best to get in contact, one way or another with some current Hejza's in Poland. Any suggestions on the best way?

4. I am going to work on getting a copy of my grand parents polish marriage certificate on my mom's side and see if the church still exists, so when I visit Poland this late summer or early fall, I can hopefully visit both churches. I also have some work to do to try to locate my grand father's mine, but if there are any cool coal mine tours, I hope to take one.

5. I learned that on my mother's side, my grandfather Henryk Kolton purchased an apartment right on the Baltic sea in the city of Sopot, Poland. He never sold it when he came to the United States and wanted to use it as a vacation home and maybe retire there one day. Well, a communist broke in and began living there at some point and even though my late grand father has all of the paperwork and legal documents to prove ownership, I believe the laws are different in Poland and this person got squatters rights. We may look into hiring a Polish attorney to see if we have any legal avenues.

Any additional thoughts, ideas, suggestions, etc. would be greatly appreciated...

Thank you to everyone, especially Elzbieta, Sirdan, polishhistorian and dnowicki, for helping me getting farther than anyone has ever gotten in our family! Much Appreciate and Many Thanks!