PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Cadastral Maps and Landowner Records

efc3011 — Wed May 04, 2022 3:17 pm

Author: efc3011

Posted: Wed May 04, 2022 3:17 pm

efc3011 wrote:

Thanks to the postings on this website, I have been able to find the 1854 cadastral maps of my grandfather's village, Huta Stara(56/126/0/588M). I am now looking for the landowner records, but can't locate them online. Does anyone know if they are available online?

Thank you!
Elaine

Hello all,
After several years, I went on the hunt for the landowner records(operat?) which apparently correlate with the cadastral maps. I still haven't been able to find them. Has anyone had any luck with these?

Thank you,
Elaine Collins

Cadastral Maps Frydman, Zamagurze, Polish Spisz

riglar — Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:29 pm

Author: riglar

Posted: Sat Apr 30, 2016 6:29 pm

I was very excited to find the 1853 cadastral map for my mother's village of Korabina (gminie Bojanów, powiat stalowowolskim, województwie podkarpackim) online at the website of the Archiwum Państwowe w Przemyślu. http://www.skany.przemysl.ap.gov.pl/show.php?zesp=126&cd=0&ser=0&syg=768M
I wrote to the archives and was also able to get copies of the operat and feldskizzen by mail after wiring payment to the Archives.
I would very much like to find the nineteenth century cadastral map and operat for my father's village of Frydman, which is just outside Galicia, and is in the region of Zamagurze, also known as Polish Spisz (formerly in Slovakia within the Kingdom of Hungary). It was interesting to read an internet post that the cadastral records for the nearby villages of Stare Bystre and Ratulow in Nowy Targ county in Podhale were in Lviv. However, I suppose that is because Lviv was holding records of the Austrian province of Galicia.
I have not been able to find the cadastral map and operat for Frydman (Fridman). I have made inquiries to Slovakia, Hungary and the Archives in Krakow and Nowy Targ. I was informed there was a 1937 map at the PODGK office in Nowy Targ which could be viewed on site, and I was advised that earlier maps had not been turned over by Slovakia.
Has anyone had any success with obtaining cadastral records from the region of Polish Spisz?
Rick Iglar
riglar@optonline.net

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

may28991 — Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:19 pm

Author: may28991

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2015 12:19 pm

I am so very sorry, I don't have a clue.

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

starshadow — Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:03 pm

Author: starshadow

Posted: Thu Aug 27, 2015 7:03 pm

I noticed the maps for some villages did show the names of families and locations of their respective plots of land. But not so for all villages. The map for the village I wanted didn't show that, but the one for the village nearby did. Any idea why?

Polish Map, Kataster, and Operat Relationship

may28991 — Tue May 26, 2015 7:29 am

Author: may28991

Posted: Tue May 26, 2015 7:29 am

Thank you, thank you,....I'll try is this afternoon.

Thanks again,
Larry

Re: Polish Map, Kataster, and Operat Relationship

jhzs — Mon May 25, 2015 2:00 pm

Author: jhzs

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 2:00 pm

Hi Larry,
In operat you need to find a table listing, in alphabetical order, all house and land owners. Then you need to find your ancestor there. Each entry should contain house numer, name of the owner, numbers of land plots (seperatly for each section of a map if they are in different parts of a map), numer(s) of building plot(s), usually in red, at the bottom. Plus there can be later notes, changes, etc. If you want to find the place where your ancestors' house was located you need to look for a building plot (not house numer) in the kadastral map. Building plots were marked with yellow rectangles usually (unless they had a different shape . You can also look for land plot numbers on the map. Then, you can compare the map to currrent map (gogle map for example or you can use geoportal (http://mapy.geoportal.gov.pl/imap/?gpmap=gp0&actions=acShowServices_KATASTER) where you can find current kadastral maps (which may be helpful in comparing maps).
You may post a page from a table for your ancestor and I will try to find where it is in the map (I still should have a map I received from you I think

Zbyszek

may28991 wrote:

I need help in directing me to the right historical person(s). I visited the village where
my grandmother was born (1890) in 2013. She was born in the village of Brzyska Wola,
Poland. While there I obtained a village map (1892), Kataster (1862), and a Operat (1853)
of Brzyska Wola. I need somebody to show me how to use these documents to determine
where my relatives lived and property they owned.

Please lead me in the correct direct direction.

Thanks in advance,
Larry

PS. Mr. Fred Hoffman (Editer/Publisher,...) suggesteted that I post my question on Polish Origins to get the best results.

Re: Cadastral Maps and Landowner Records

jhzs — Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 pm

Author: jhzs

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 1:46 pm

Hi,
Landowners records are not available on-line yet (although they are scanning them right now as far as I know) so I think you need to ask in a state archives in Przemysl.

Zbyszek

efc3011 wrote:

Polish Map, Kataster, and Operat Relationship

may28991 — Mon May 25, 2015 11:40 am

Author: may28991

Posted: Mon May 25, 2015 11:40 am

I need help in directing me to the right historical person(s). I visited the village where
my grandmother was born (1890) in 2013. She was born in the village of Brzyska Wola,
Poland. While there I obtained a village map (1892), Kataster (1862), and a Operat (1853)
of Brzyska Wola. I need somebody to show me how to use these documents to determine
where my relatives lived and property they owned.

Please lead me in the correct direct direction.

Thanks in advance,
Larry

PS. Mr. Fred Hoffman (Editer/Publisher,...) suggesteted that I post my question on Polish Origins to get the best results.

Cadastral Maps and Landowner Records

efc3011 — Tue May 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Author: efc3011

Posted: Tue May 19, 2015 12:13 pm

Thanks to the postings on this website, I have been able to find the 1854 cadastral maps of my grandfather's village, Huta Stara(56/126/0/588M). I am now looking for the landowner records, but can't locate them online. Does anyone know if they are available online?

Thank you!
Elaine

Other Cadastral Maps

stankieta — Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:40 pm

Author: stankieta

Posted: Wed Apr 15, 2015 9:40 pm

I've managed to locate information on my family farms in Stare Bystre using the 1846 Cadastre and the 1820 Franciszkanska and 1787 Jozefinska Cadastre's.

Were there any other similar land registrations conducted either prior to the Jozefinska Cadastre or after the 1846 Cadastre where I can continue doing research on the farms? If so, where could I look for the records?

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

stankieta — Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:06 pm

Author: stankieta

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:06 pm

Thank you Zbysek and Elzbieta.
I will try to send the money next week. Hopefully, my bank will help me to make sure it goes to the right place!

Also, I received a reply from the county office in Nowy Targ regarding the Cadastral maps for Stare Bystre and Ratulow. They told me that they do have both maps! Hopefully, I should have them soon. Thank you both for helping me with this!

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:37 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 9:37 am

Stan, Zbyszek,

I have problem with bank account number.

Lviv's account is in Germany, so your transfer will be to Germany.

European account number must fit into IBAN scheme
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Bank_Account_Number
which means for Germany:
20 signs, starting with alpha-2 code for Germany, which is DE
and 18 digits, see corresponding line.

But in Lviv's letter they indicate only 14 digits
acc.10094986270005 DEUTSCHE BANK AG (Frankfurt)

What I mean by that: if I had to transfer money from France to Germany, my bank would not accept, or would accept with extra searching for extra cost, as it does not fit into normal transaction.

The provided SWIFT is correct.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

jhzs — Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:52 am

Author: jhzs

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:52 am

Hi,
As far as I understand it it is $5 for the entire document and after receiving the money they will send you digital pictures. They require bank transfer (which will be perhaps much more then the ammount you have to pay) and do not accept checks. You should pay before March 20th.
Zbyszek

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

stankieta — Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:34 am

Author: stankieta

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 7:34 am

Zbyszek,
I wrote to the Lwow archives and asked what the cost would be for a copy of the Josephinska cadastre for Stare Bystre. I received a response today which is attached. If I'm interpreting this correctly, it says the cost of a copy is $5.00. Can anyone read the attached document? Would the $5.00 be for each page of the document or for the entire document?

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

jhzs — Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:33 am

Author: jhzs

Posted: Sat Feb 14, 2015 5:33 am

Hi,

stankieta wrote:

Thanks jhzs. I was afraid that was the case. I keep hoping that I will get lucky and someone will be able to point me to the maps for my villages.

I think you may try to contact county office in Nowy Targ, the branch that deals with kadastral documents: Starostwo Powiatowe w Nowym Targu, Wydział Geodezji, Katastru i Kartografii, ul. Bolesława Wstydliwego 14, 34-400 Nowy Targ, phone: 0048 18 2661300, email: starostwo@nowotarski.ppl (phone and email is for the whole ccounty office so they should connect you with wydział geodezji). There is some Chance they still have the old maps. If they do not have cadastral maps from ~1850 then the should still keep maps a little younger. Anyway, if they do not have tchem they most propably do not exist I am afraid.

I also know that there were land registrations done in Galicia in the 1780's and 1820's. I've seen information on the "Jozefinska metric" and the "Franciszkanska metric". I was told that there were maps used for those assessments as well. I wonder if those maps might still exist and, if so, where they might be located.

As far as I know these two kadasters did not contain maps just tables listing house and land owners, which is also very usefull fo genealogical reasons of course. At least documents I saw did not contain maps. Documents from these two kadasters are in Lwow archives (Main Historical Archives of Ukraine, CDIAL):
Address: 3a Soborna sq., 79008 Lviv
Tel.: +380 (32) 235-45-08
Fax: +380 (32) 235-45-08
E-mail: office@cdial.org.ua
Web: tsdial.archives.gov.ua
You can order copies of records for your villages there (may be expensive) or see them yourself.

Zbyszek

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

stankieta — Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:59 pm

Author: stankieta

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 3:59 pm

Thanks jhzs. I was afraid that was the case. I keep hoping that I will get lucky and someone will be able to point me to the maps for my villages. I also know that there were land registrations done in Galicia in the 1780's and 1820's. I've seen information on the "Jozefinska metric" and the "Franciszkanska metric". I was told that there were maps used for those assessments as well. I wonder if those maps might still exist and, if so, where they might be located. Any idea's on where I could find more information on those studies?

Re: Cadastral records for Galicia online

jhzs — Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:11 am

Author: jhzs

Posted: Fri Feb 13, 2015 11:11 am

Hi, there are no maps for Stare Bystre and Ratulów in Krakow state archives (there is just a black and white copy of a part of a map for Ratułów), only so called "operat" survived. The one for Ratułów seems to be complete so should contain, among others, an alphabetical list of all house and land owners. Documents for Stare Bystre are not complete perhaps. One more place where you could ask for the maps from so called 3rd cadaster would be a country officce in Nowy Targ (some counties keep the maps even if they do not use tchem anymore, some of tchem even scanned tchem but still do not send originals to the archives. I do not know if this is aa case with Nowy Targ however. Anyway, you can always ask).
Zbyszek

Galicia Cadastral maps

stankieta — Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:51 pm

Author: stankieta

Posted: Thu Feb 12, 2015 1:51 pm

I've been trying to locate cadastral maps for the villages of Stare Bystre and Ratulow in Nowy Targ county. I know that some of the cadastral maps are available on line but I haven't been able to locate maps for either of the villages. I would be interested in finding maps from the 1700's, 1800's and 1900's if they exist. Does anyone know where I might find these maps? Are there any books available for purchase that might the maps?

Cadastral Maps

rickborek — Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:00 pm

Author: rickborek

Posted: Tue Jan 06, 2015 9:00 pm

Thank you for the post...I see that Lubatowa maps have been scanned and placed on-line. I will get them ordered

Cadastral records for Galicia online

Agnieszka Pawlus — Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:39 am

Author: Agnieszka Pawlus

Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2014 9:39 am

Our guide and researcher Zbyszek prepared for you an article about cadastral maps from Galicia that have been recently published online by the Polish State Archives.

Since many of your ancestors came from this part of Europe we decided to write you a little more about this source of information. Cadastral maps are used less often in genealogy search than, for example, church records but they may be a very useful source of information and give you more context to your ancestors’ life.

‘Cadastral records were used by Austrian authorities for the tax reasons – they recorded size of each property, category of the land, number of houses, changes in ownership and other information useful for tax reasons. They consists of a very detailed (scale 1:2280), colorful map of each village showing each plot of land and each building in a village.

Second part of a set is so called operat - that is a set of documents and tables describing a village and properties. The most interesting for genealogical reasons are alphabetical listings of house and land owners. Each entry for each owner contains: house number (this is the same number that you can find in metrical records but not on the map), building plot number (you can find it on the map), numbers of plots of land that belonged to this owner and later changes in ownership.(...)’

Read the whole article about cadastral records here: http://polishorigins.com/document/galician_cadastre
You will find there more information about cadaster from Galicia, including instruction how to find map of ‘your’ village in the online database.