PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo parish

mestanton — Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:34 pm

Author: mestanton

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:34 pm

Yes, the Polish language is specific. I remember, as a child, hearing different words for my father's uncle on his father's side (paternal uncle) and the uncle on his mother's side (maternal uncle). Your comments on the language while translating are valuable in providing genealogical clues.
Best regards,
Marilyn

Re: Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo parish

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:12 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 4:12 pm

mestanton wrote:

Other Polish words were used to describe a cousin (brat) on the father's and the mother's side. Do the Polish words indicate whether the person is first or second cousin? Jozef Siemiatkowski was cousin on the mother's side, and her maiden name was Sikorski, so Jozef may be a son of a sister of the mother, I suppose. I was hoping to learn more about the Antoni Rzeszotarski who signed many of the marriages of my family in this parish, but he appears to be just a neighboring farmer who is always listed first in the list of witnesses and who signs his name.
Marilyn

Marilyn,

The Polish is very specific:

Tomasza Rzeszotarskiego liczacego lat 32, brata stryjecznego mlodej, Jozefa Siemiatkowskiego liczacego lat 30, brata ciotecznego mlodej w Chwalach,

Tomasz Rzeszotarski, 32, bride's "brat stryjeczny" = son of an uncle from father's side, i.e. either son of father's brother or of father's sister
Jozef Siemiatkowski, 30, bride's "brat cioteczny" = son of an uncle from mother's side, i.e. either son of mother's brother or of mother's sister

I guess it is first cousin -- but in Polish we are specific, as above. My French family uses the term "cousin", and I am always lost to figure out who's that person.

Elzbieta

Re: Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo parish

mestanton — Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Author: mestanton

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 3:47 pm

Elzbieta,
Thank you for the transcription and summary of this marriage that contains some new (for me) vocabulary applied to the groom and his father--slawetny, meaning famous or renowned or an average middle class craftsman and citizen. In English, the word notorious usually has a very negative connotation, so when I first read the summary, I assumed the groom was a bad person, but this is not the case. Other Polish words were used to describe a cousin (brat) on the father's and the mother's side. Do the Polish words indicate whether the person is first or second cousin? Jozef Siemiatkowski was cousin on the mother's side, and her maiden name was Sikorski, so Jozef may be a son of a sister of the mother, I suppose. I was hoping to learn more about the Antoni Rzeszotarski who signed many of the marriages of my family in this parish, but he appears to be just a neighboring farmer who is always listed first in the list of witnesses and who signs his name.
Marilyn

Re: Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo paris

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:26 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Jun 27, 2015 2:26 pm

mestanton wrote:

Please transcribe and translate this marriage of Katarzyna, daughter of Woyciech Rzeszotarski. It is record #7 in 1822. I am particularly interested in the descriptions (age, connection to the bride's family, residence, status, etc.) of the male witnesses, two of whom signed.

Thank you for your assistance and for helping me to interpret the words in Polish.

My jpeg attachment was too big to send. Let me know if you want me to try another way.

Marilyn

CORRECTED:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/50/391/0/-/17/str/1/2/15/SX3RytQUOfAT-acZcKUaNQ/#tabSkany

Marilyn,

Here it is.

I typed all Polish, but did not translate, only summary. Hope it is OK, otherwise please let me know.

Best,
Elzbieta

==

==PO212:
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/50/391/0/-/17/str/1/2/15/SX3RytQUOfAT-acZcKUaNQ/#tabSkany
N 7 Chwaly

MARRIAGE: 13 November 1822, in Rościszewo, circuit Mława, in the department of Płock
GROOM: notorious [NOTE] Marcin Widajewski, young man staying with his parents, 24 years old according to submitted [metrics] birth records cut out of the books of the parish church in Bieżuń, in the assistance of notorious [NOTE] Jakub Widajewski, residing on farm in Bieżuń, and his mother Katarzyna born Drzazewska, legitimate spouses
GROOM-PARENTS: notorious [NOTE] Jakub Widajewski, residing on farm in Bieżuń, and his mother Katarzyna born Drzazewska, legitimate spouses
BRIDE: well-born Katarzyna Rzeszotarska, 20 years old, liczaca podlug metryki zlozonej, wycietek z ksiag kosciola parafialnego Rosciszewskiego lat 20, according to submitted [metrics] birth records cut out of the books of the parish church in Rościszewo, staying with her mother so far, in the assistance of her mother Marcyna Rzeszotarska, residing on farm in Chwaly;
BRIDE-PARENTS: daughter of the late Woyciech Rzeszotarski, residing in Chwaly on the farm, and the well-born Marcyna born Sikorska, living; she presented [sepultura] the death certificate of her late father.
WITNESSES: well-born (plural) Antoni Rzeszotarski, 44 years old, neighbor, Tomasz Rzeszotarski, 32 years old, bride’s cousin from father’s side, Jozef Siemiatkowski, 30 years old, bride’s cousin from mother’s side, from Chwaly, Antoni Wawrowski, 32 years old, neighbor residing in Pszczyle, all farmers
BANNS: 3, 10 November, in local parish [Rościszewo] and in parish in Bieżuń from Marcin Widajewski side
Signatures:
Antoni Rzeszotarski as witness
Antoni Wawrowski as witness
NOTE:
http://genealodzy.pl/PNphpBB2-printview-t-16762-start-0.phtml
notorious (famatus / famosus) - average wealthy craftsman ... someone with status of citizen (townsman)

(part1, introducing groom and bride, with documented dates of birth, and names of parents)

Roku 1822, dnia 13 miesiaca Listopada. Przed nami proboszczem parafii Rosciszewskiej sprawujacym obowiazki Urzednika Stanu Cywilnego gminy Rosciszewskiej, obwodu Mlawskiego, w departamencie Plockim. Stawili sie slawetny Marcin Widajewski, mlodzian przy rodzicach dotad zostajacy, liczacy podlug metryki zlozonej, wycietek z ksiag kosciola parafialnego Biezanskiego lat 24, w asystencji slawetnego Jakuba Widajewskiego, na gospodarstwie w Biezuniu zamieszkalego, i matki swej Katarzyny Drzazewskiej, prawych malzonkow. Tudziez urodzona Katarzyna Rzeszotarska, liczaca podlug metryki zlozonej, wycietek z ksiag kosciola parafialnego Rosciszewskiego lat 20, corka niegdys Woyciecha Rzeszotarskiego w Chwalach na gospodarstwie zamieszkalego, i urodzonej Marcyny z Sikorskich zyjacej, przy matce swej dotad zostajaca, w asystencji matki swej Marcyny Rzeszotarskiej na gospodarstwie zamieszkalej w Chwalach, sepulture ojca swego zmarlego zlozyla.

(part2, Code Napoleon procedure, including dates of banns, and often oral permission of present parents or blood relatives):

Strony stawajace zadaja abysmy przystapili do obchodu ulozonego miedzy niemi malzenstwa, ktorego zapowiedzie uczynione byly przed glownemi drzwiami naszego domu gminnego, to jest pierwsza dnia 3 listopada w niedziele 23-cia po Swiatkach, druga 10 listopada, w niedziele 24-ta po Swiatkach, o godzinie jedenastej przed poludniem roku biezacego. Rowniez w gminie Biezunskiej z strony Marcina Widajewskiego jak zaswiadcza attest Urzednika Cywilnego pod pieczecia, dany na pismie. Gdy o zadnym tamowaniu rzeczonego malzenstwa uwiadomieni nie zostalismy, a rodzice niniejszym na obchod malzenstwa pozwalaja, przychylajac sie zatem do zadania stron, po przeczytaniu stronom i swiadkom wszystkich wyzej wyrazonych papierow i dzialu szostego Kodeksu Napoleona w tytule o Malzenstwie, zapytalismy sie przyszlego malzonka i przyszlej malzonki, czyli chca polaczyc sie z soba zwizkiem malzenskim?

(part3, groom and bride say separately yes, the marriage is declared in the name of Law, in presence of witnesses)

Na co gdy kazde z nich oddzielnie odpowiedzialo, iz taka ich jest wola, oswiadczamy w imieniu prawa, iz slawetny Marcin Widajewski i urodzona katarzyna rzeszotarska sa polaczeni z soba wezlem malzenstwa. Czego spisalismy akt w przytomnosci urodzonych Antoniego Rzeszotarskiego liczacego lat 44, sasiada, Tomasza Rzeszotarskiego liczacego lat 32, brata stryjecznego mlodej, Jozefa Siemiatkowskiego liczacego lat 30, brata ciotecznego mlodej w Chwalach, Antoniego Wawrowskiego liczacego lat 32, sasiada w Pszczylach zamieszkalych, wszystkich gospodarzow, ktory stawajacym przeczytany i podpisany zostal przez nas i swiadkow dwoch, drudzy dwaj pisac nie umieja.
Ksiadz Woyciech Dmochowski, Proboszcz Rosciszewski, sprawujacy obowiazki Urzednika Stanu Cywilnego
Signatures:
Antoni Rzeszotarski jako swiadek
Antoni Wawrowski jako swiadek

==

Re: Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo parish

mestanton — Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:44 pm

Author: mestanton

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:44 pm

http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/50/391/0/-/17/str/1/2/15/SX3RytQUOfAT-acZcKUaNQ/#tabSkany

This is the correct scan link for marriage record #7 in 1822 for Rosciszewo parish. My pasting of the link did not work. Sorry.

Katarzyna Rzeszotarska 1822 Marriage in Rosciszewo parish

mestanton — Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:38 pm

Author: mestanton

Posted: Wed Jun 24, 2015 2:38 pm

Please transcribe and translate this marriage of Katarzyna, daughter of Woyciech Rzeszotarski. It is record #7 in 1822. I am particularly interested in the descriptions (age, connection to the bride's family, residence, status, etc.) of the male witnesses, two of whom signed.

Thank you for your assistance and for helping me to interpret the words in Polish.

My jpeg attachment was too big to send. Let me know if you want me to try another way.

Marilyn

http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/50/391/0/-/17/str/1/2/15/gpOL5IJbOb2HffQlwm1cYQ/#tabSkany