PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:17 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 11:17 am

P.S. Take a look on familysearch at the 1930 census, 1940 census and World War II draft registration for "George Fleszar" who was born in 1890. He may be your guy. He lived in McClellandtown PA in 1942, and gave his birth date as 4 March 1890 and you expected 9 March 1892. Hmmmm.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:58 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:58 am

Hi Sirdan,

In your original post, you also asked about Wojciech Flejszar. I looked at the manifest for him. As you said, he arrived in 1910 and went to his brother-in-law. He arrived on the ship Vaderland, and if you look further through that manifest you will find him also on one of the pages for Detained Aliens. To make it easier for you, I am putting the image here; he is on line 22. The name of the brother-in-law is much clearer on this page - - it is written as Stepan Pentman. Clearly a mis-spelling of Szczepan .... something. Poor Wojciech, he was detained because he needed the money for transportation from New York to Vanderbilt, Pennsylvania, and he had to telegraph his brother-in-law to send it. He was finally released on September 2, so you can see they have noted on this form that he ate 4 breakfasts, 4 lunches and 4 suppers. I am sure he was ready for some home-made cooking by the time he reached Vanderbilt!
Like you, I have not found any documents for him, but I do want to draw your attention to the World War I Draft Registration form for "Valenty Fleysher" on Familysearch.org because Walenty is also from Wysoka and may be his brother. He is not in Vanderbilt, but still in the same county in Pennsylvania, and he is also working with coke (he spelled it "coak" but it is coke). They would have been 2 years apart in age.
Best,
Sophia

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

dnowicki — Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:18 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 7:18 pm

Sophia,

Why get a delayed birth certificate in 1942? Your guess is a logical one but there are certainly other possible reasons. Social Security was a relatively new program and in 1940 there still were plenty of individuals who were not enrolled. Perhaps she needed it because she wanted to get a social security number. (Back in the "good old days" I don't recall presenting too many documents to get a social security number---got mine when I was in high school and needed it for a summer job.) I'm not sure if that was her reason. Perhaps she just wanted a birth certificate which didn't require her to explain why her baptismal certificate was a birth certificate substitute. Perhaps she was like my mother and had no other reason to get a delayed certificate than that she just wanted it. Who knows?

Dave

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:30 pm

Author: sirdan

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 6:30 pm

I want to post to thank again you Sophia for valuable comments and Elżbieta for findings. Looks like i need to put some time to collecting the records. Later will post my findings.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:55 pm

Sophia wrote:

Hi again,

I just realized that there is a second page for Julia's delayed birth certificate. Here it is:

Best,
Sophia

Salomea Miedler from Detroit, is noted neighbor, but her name is Julianna's name - Salomea is wife of Walter Miedler, born 1891
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KHSS-RSX
She is Sally in 1930 census, from Poland, and Salomea in 1940 census, from Poland, also born in 1891.

Walter brother of Wojciech Miedler?
Elzbieta

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:08 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 1:08 pm

On her application for the US passport in 1024, Julianna states she is going to her cousin Andrzej Klamut. On her arrival to the US in August 1924, she states she is going to her brother-in-law Andrzej Klamut.

Familysearch.org with Andrzej Klamut indicates several records:
- WWI draft: he was born 25 Nov 1888 in Graboonica, Austria (Grabownica on his immigration)
- US immigration: 1912, Baltimore, Baltimore, Maryland, United States, 24 years old, from Grabownica, going to his brother Ludwik Klamut, in Braddock, PA
- marriage of his son Walter: he is married to Mary Bleszczak

Maria sister of Anna Blaszczak, therefore Andrzej Klamut is Julia's uncle from mother's side.
Best
Elzbieta
==

Grabownica
woj. podkarpackie
pow. jarosławski
gmina Pruchnik

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:11 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 12:11 pm

Hi again,

I just realized that there is a second page for Julia's delayed birth certificate. Here it is:

Best,
Sophia

This Abstract of Supporting Evidence uses several abbreviations. Here is my interpretation.
1. Certificate of baptism, St. Trinitatis Church, Connellsville, Pa., baptized May 19, 1906
2. Affidavit of John Blaszczak, uncle, Uniontown, Pa., notarized July 3, 1942
3. Affidavit of George Chmiel, neighbor, Phillips, Pa., notarized July 3, 1942
4. Affidavit of Salomeia Miendlar, neighbor, Detroit, Michigan, notarized July 3, 1942
5. Marriage record of applicant, Julia Miedlar and Andrew Dudek, Detroit, Michigan, married September 7, 1925
6. Certificate of birth of applicant's son, Edward Dudek, #15704, Detroit, Michigan, born June 17, 1926

As Elzbieta pointed out in her post, Salomeia is not just a neighbor but a relative.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:08 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 11:08 am

Wow! So much has happened here since I last posted. Everyone is providing very useful documents. It is amazing how quickly one can go from knowing only a little bit about an emigrant, to finding out so much of their story.

Sirdan, I do have a subscription to Ancestry, so if there are particular documents that you want, please tell me and I will post them here for you. I do not want to guess which ones. So let me know.

I agree with you, the record you found for Helena Klus going to Michigan is the correct Helena Kluz, and that "Vanderberth" is really Vanderbilt, Pennsylvania. This is very exciting, as it is the only document we have found for Helena. She and Juljanna and their parents must have all gone back to Poland and survived the first World War there. I also agree with what you are saying about the information on the birth certificate for Julia, it is a mixture of information that was accurate at the time of birth plus information that was accurate in 1942. It is not very clear to me when her father Albert Miedlar died. So far, I do not find him in the index of Pennsylvania deaths.

Elzbieta, thanks for posting the map. It is very helpful when you can see how close all these little towns are.

Dave, I wonder if you have any theory on why Julia would apply for a delayed birth certificate in 1942? What did she need it for? She already had a passport from 1924. We can see on the 1940 census that she worked for an auto plant. Do you suppose that once the U.S. entered WWII, the plant changed over to war material production and she required additional proof of who she was? Just a guess on my part.

PolishLibrarian, excellent find on Fr. Szpara. I google a bit and came up with nothing! Nicely done.

Best,
Sophia

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:22 am

Author: sirdan

Posted: Wed Dec 02, 2015 3:22 am

Thanks! i will write to the parish then.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

dnowicki — Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:41 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 8:41 pm

PL,

I'm sure that info will be of use to Sirdan since it provides the name of the parish where Julia was married---especially if he is not able to locate her baptismal record in Holy Trinity.

Sirdan,

Kruszka's book is certainly not something anyone would want to read completely. I've only bothered to read those entries which relate to places my relatives lived. A difficulty is that it is not set up in such a way where you just pick out the volume you want to look at. I can tell you this---the first few volumes do not cover parishes but deal with newspapers and other publications in the Polish-American community at that time. The various volumes cover parishes by states so I found that the easiest way to zero in on what was important is to skim through the volumes until you find the state you need. Almost all the states are in the Northeastern and Midwestern US with some in Texas and California. Most of the early Polish immigrants settled in those areas rather than in the Southern and Western states. The attached information about the parish where Julia was married my be useful to you if you are not able to obtain a copy of her baptismal record from Holy Trinity since baptismal information is usually included in marriage records.

Dave

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

PolishLibrarian — Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:17 pm

Author: PolishLibrarian

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 6:17 pm

dnowicki wrote:

Sirdan, Elzbieta, & Sophia,

Here is the marriage license return for the marriage of Julia and her husband Andrzej Dudek. The marriage took place on September 7, 1925 in Detroit. This is a civil document and unfortunately there is not enough information to determine the name of the church were the wedding took place. The name of the priest does not yield any matches on a Google search.
...
Hope this helps you. Dave

Sirdan, Dave~ For what it's worth, I found a Find A Grave record for Fr. Callistus Szpara who served at Our Lady of Angels in Detroit 1925-1929. http://www.findagrave.com/cgi-bin/fg.cgi?page=gr&GRid=21466206 ~PL

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:01 pm

Author: sirdan

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 4:01 pm

Hello! I want to thank you all for help and taking time writing replies. I m really grateful.

@Elżbieta
I found te records. Something tells me Anna Blaszczak passenger list is quite accurate, dont know about other people. Why would have she posses their maiden name, being even married. Strange. I have small info about this part of family, i cannot use backing info about relatives left in home or that they heading to. Not right now at least.
Just one tiny correction, Peszko is typical name here.
Ah one more, also thought Anna would marry Wojciech in Poland. Not enough info yet on that matter.

@Dave
Thaks for info, that was great job. The license, the civil document confirm other documents so its important. Great. Im not sure if want to dig in somebody's family, the marriage record would be sufficient for my needs. Birth records of Dudek children arent gonna shed more light, are they? Thank Dave for help at library, if You or anybody want to obtain that copies, this always would be great.
I must say, that just now have realized how close that towns are togheter, this area must have been centre of emmigrants from Łańcut surroundings. I see even more familiar towns than Elzbieta traced. Ancestors of many people posting on the forum might get to know there.
Ill look on that Kruszka Book, but so many volumes..

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

dnowicki — Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:01 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 12:01 pm

Sirdan, Elzbieta, & Sophia,

Here is the marriage license return for the marriage of Julia and her husband Andrzej Dudek. The marriage took place on September 7, 1925 in Detroit. This is a civil document and unfortunately there is not enough information to determine the name of the church were the wedding took place. The name of the priest does not yield any matches on a Google search.

Waclaw Kruszka's Historya.... probably will not help either since it was published in 1908 but it may come in handy for other research. There is no entry for Holy Trinity either, probably because Kruszka wrote the section on Poles in Pennsylvania around the time the parish was being founded (July, 1903). The book is in the public domain and can be found online. One place it is available online is from Harvard University Library. Elzbieta, that is where the historia par. sw. Michala and the story of our old friend ks. Adolf Nowicki came from. Sirdan, Kruszka's book may be of use to you for other research in the US. Holy Trinity became part of Immaculate Conception parish so the parish registers are probably kept there. I'm not sure whether you should contact the parish or the office above the parish contact information.

Just a little information about civil birth registrations in the USA....They are the responsibility of the various counties and before about 1920 many births were never recorded with the county. I'm not familiar with the practice in Pennsylvania but in Chicago in the early 20th Century it was the responsibility of the midwife or the physician who was present at the birth to register the birth with the county. Since most births took place at home with a midwife assisting it was usually her responsibility to file the registration and more often than not she did not file the registration. That is why Julia filed for a delayed certificate of birth. Neither my mother nor her siblings had their births recorded with the county. My mother did get a delayed certificate when she was in her mid twenties. Usually someone who was present at the birth (other than the baby) was supposed to testify to the facts of the birth. For my mother that was my grandmother but since Julia's mother was in Poland and they probably were unable to locate anyone in the US who was an adult present for her birth, the registrar accepted her testimony---most likely together with her baptismal certificate.

Sirdan, the other Dudek documents you listed require a paid subscription to Ancestry to be accessed. I do not have a subscription---actually I've never had one. When I wanted to use Ancestry in my research I used it at the local public library where I could use it za darmo. If no one who subscribes to Ancestry provides the documents for you, I will look for them at the library---but probably not until after the Christmas holidays.

Hope this helps you.

Dave

P.S. There was no Polish parish in Vanderbilt which is why Julia was baptized at Holy Trinity.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:53 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:53 am

Sirdan, Sophia,
I am fascinated by this search, learning a lot.

On Julianna Międlar application for passeport, done in 1924 in the US embassy in Warsaw (which means that names and places have a little less typos than elsewhere, both languages Polish and English in use), she states that her father Adalbert Miedlar immigrated to the US circa 1905, resided there for 6 years, and is deceased at the date of application.
Julianna states she was born 15 May 1906, in Vanderbilt, PA.

Familysearch.org for Wojciech Miedlar gives 2 entries in 1906:
1. resident of Vraczkowa immigration: 7 March 1906, 29 years, arriving from Antwerp (Belgium), ship name Vaderland
2. resident of Ruden (shall be Rudna Wielka?), immigration: 29 March 1906, 30 years, arriving from Hamburg (Germany), ship name Graf Waldersee

Vraczkowa is a typo, it is Kraczkowa on the manifest, very close to Łańcut.
Wojciech Miedlar from Kraczkowa has Marital Status: married on the ship manifest, is going to Wanderbilt, PA, to his brother in law Wladyslaw Peszko

Familysearch.org for Anna Blaszczak gives an entry in 1905, from Sonina, very close to Łańcut.
immigration: 13 April 1905, 20 years old; status married, going to her sister Jozefa Blaszczak, Connellsville, PA
https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:JF3T-N3L
departure port Bremen (Germany), arrival port New York, ship name Rhein

If Anna Blaszczak and Jozefa Blaszczak are sisters, then it is Anna's birth name.
Wojciech's brother in law Peszko vs Blaszczak, sounds similar, could be confused by non Polish ears.
Was Wojciech married to Anna in Poland?

Good luck!
Elzbieta

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:25 am

Author: sirdan

Posted: Tue Dec 01, 2015 5:25 am

I found Julia Dudek at the adress from birth certificate http://www.ancestry.com/1940-census/usa/Michigan/Roman-Dudek_2xkts6 1940 census is free, but other records below i cant access

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:24 pm

Author: sirdan

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 10:24 pm

Hi Sophia!
You are amazing. How did you dig that papers. I would not find these without your help!

Considering Census record, basing on my experience - this kind of record is the most inacurate of all records when it comes to dates. The enumerator at this case was also especially not paying attention to names. I see Andrzej Kluz coming on same ship with many people from Wysoka, 4 of them looks like appear on census. Not all them go Vanderbilt, some go to Connellsville. Andrzej goes to his brother Wojciech to Connellsville. I suppose Wojciech moved to Vanderbilt and took other friends. Whats more, with Wojciech was going Józef Bednarski, another person from census. So many coinsidences? Or a hint?
I take your explanation about census marks.

And now the birth certificate. So many new info. The cert states "all info as of time of birth", but it looks like info comes from time of issue. Mother cannot be in Poland when giving birth in Vanderbilt. But.., Anna was married to Albert Międlar. Międlar is a surname known in my area, but not in my family. Anna lived in Krzemienica at 1942, what would be correct info. Julia probably married a Dudek - after coming back to usa - after the date 1924 yr.
So maybe my info was inaccurate, and in fact probably Julia went to poland with step-father in 1911. We dont know about Anna, she might travel with them or did back on 1913?
Still no sign of Helena. I found on familysearch Helena Klus visiting Michigan, born 9th may 1910 in Vanderberth PA. Isn't that wrong name of Vanderbilt?

I have no experience in obtaining records from usa parishes. Do you think its easy to get a copy of parish birth cert from Trinity church? According to online info, this parish does not exist anymore. At 1906 there were 180 families registered.

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:36 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:36 am

Hi again! Here is a great find. Look for "Juljanna Miedlar" on Familysearch.org and you will see her passport application. It gives Albert Klus as her stepfather. So here we have the entire Wojciech = Adalbert = Albert = George situation!! You can also see Juljanna returning to the U.S. in 1924.
Be sure to look at the NEXT image when you look at the passport application, because it gives the specifics of which church she was baptized in, and it also has her photo! Wow!
Best,
Sophia

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:05 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 8:05 am

Hi Sirdan,

Regarding the 1910 census, you are right that it makes no sense to say George Kluse was born in Pennsylvania and then give his year of immigration. As to which is correct, that cannot be known from only one record. You are asking if it is possible that the man on line 39 is his brother Andrzej. That is possible. Now, USUALLY, if this was the case, he would be listed as "brother" in the column that asks about his relationship to the head of household (who is George) but here he is listed as a "boarder." In this case, I accept it as boarder, for the one reason that there is a note in the very left column of the page that the tenement where they all live is owned by the W.J. Rainey Company. That is an unusual note. So maybe the census enumerator felt it was more accurate to say that this Kluse was a boarder. You see that so many of the people boarding at this address work at the coke plant (it means coke, the fuel made from coal, of course) and there is such a long list of them, the accuracy of their details may not be very good. So is that Wojciech's brother Andrzej? No way to be sure from only one record. But it does seem possible.

Now I will give you a big headache. There is a birth record for a Julia, whose mother was Anna Blaszczak. She was born in Vanderbilt, Pennsylvania. However...... she was born in 1906 and did not get the birth certificate issued until 1942. By then, she was living in Michigan and her mother Anna had moved back to Poland. Julia's father is not Wojciech Kluz, but Albert Miedlar. So you have to wonder if the Julia we see on the 1910 census is from Anna's first marriage. Yes, I know, the census says that George is her first marriage. Still, you can also see the census says that George and Anna are in their 0 year of marriage but Julia is 1 year old. In fact, if this birth certificate is correct, Julia is actually 3 years old, but maybe that raises too many questions when the census enumerator comes to the door... So, did Anna return to Poland with Wojciech and Julia, but Julia returned later? Was Anna's husband Albert also from Wysoka? Does the name Miedlar mean anything to you?

I will continue looking for other information that you asked for in your original post, but see what you think about this, for now.

Best,
Sophia

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

sirdan — Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:32 am

Author: sirdan

Posted: Mon Nov 30, 2015 3:32 am

@Edziu, thanks for the info.
I still have in mind your printed list of some family members, i cannot find a connection though.

@Sophia
Interesting record. All boarders have typical names from Wysoka. I didnt know about Julia earlier, maybe she didnt survive?
One question about the record. It says George Kluse was born in Pennsylvania, at the same states his year of immigration. What would be accurate info?

EDIT: Wow, i just found out that Jędrzej (Andrzej), brother of Wojciech has arrived to USA in nov 1909. He might be listed as Kluse Anela? or Anda, i suppose "rzej" was hard to speak or write for american. Why all boarder was listed as single? Might be this information taken as inaccurate? Andrzej was married at that time. What you think Sophia?

Re: Please help finding outside Poland:Kluz, Flejszar-Vanderbilt

Sophia — Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:41 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sun Nov 29, 2015 3:41 pm

Hi Sirdan,

Take a look at the 1910 census for "George Kluse" which you can see on Familysearch.org if you do not have access to Ancestry.com . The pronunciation of Kluse and Kluz would be very similar. George was the name often chosen by men named Wojciech once they lived in the U.S. His wife's name is given as Annie which is a match for your Anna. There is already a child, Julia, but since the census for 1910 was taken in April, the child Helena does not show up yet. This family lived in Dunbar, Pennsylvania, which is very very close to Vanderbilt.

What do you think?

Best regards,
Sophia