PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Need help Identifying town!

dnowicki — Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:21 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 9:21 pm

[quote="Dave D Do either of you know of a database I could search for baptism records for the R.C. parish in Dylągowa?

Dave D[/quote]

Dave & Cheri,

My experience with Galicia research is limited to helping friends with their research since all my ancestors were from Wielkopolskie and Kujawsko-Pomorskie. From what I've seen, Galicia is a tough place to research unless you live in Poland or hire a researcher. This summer I helped a woman with whom I attended grammar school make sense out of data from the parish of Osobnica which her researcher sent. Never asked her about the cost but I'm sure it was not cheap. She did get info back to the late 1700s and she felt it was well worth the cost.
There is only a small number of records from Galicia available online and relatively little is available on LDS films (nothing for Dylągowa). The Polish National Archives has a home page from which it is possible to learn what civil transcripts are housed in the National Archives, although the info is not always up to date. The National Archive in Przemśyl does hold some civil transcripts, but nothing that would help you. (They have births from 1896 to 1911 and marriages from 1894 to 1909.) I've seen listings for other parishes for civil records held by National Archives, but they often only cover about 10 to 30 years from the end of the 19th Century and/or the beginning of the 20th Century. I could very well be wrong but I remember reading once upon a time that civil copies were sent to the Austrian government and only those from the late years ended up in Polish archives.

For what it is worth, the contact info for the parish is attached.

Best of luck in your research.

Dave

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:19 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 6:19 pm

Dave,
I read this on Stephen's blog:
Well, it seems that on 04 Oct 1945, Dylągowa and the neighboring villages of Bartkówka, Łączki, Sielnica, and Pawłokoma were burned to the ground by the Ukrainian Rebel Army. The parish metrical books were transferred to the Diocesan Archives in Przemyśl and, because the books are in poor condition, the archivists there are reluctant to allow genealogy researchers to examine the records.
http://stephendanko.com/blog/2464
http://stephendanko.com/blog/2468

Maybe he has learned more since he wrote those entries in his blog. I have read about a couple of researchers who have luck at the Przemyśl Archives, and I believe one of them might sometimes work for Polish Origins. I'm sorry to say that I would be surprised to learn that what you are looking for would be online. If I remember correctly, the priests in the Austrian partition was were not required to send copies of their records to the government, so there may not be any "state" records. I did look up Dylągowa at http://www.szukajwarchiwach.pl/ and unfortunately didn't see any birth marriage death records.

You did a great job finding the villages! By the way, the diacritical mark under the a makes it sound like an, so that explains the n in "Delingova".

Cheri

Cheri

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Dave D — Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:03 pm

Author: Dave D

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 5:03 pm

Thanks Dave & Cheri. Dave I think you are correct on baptism vs where a person was born. I forgot to make the distinction. This information is very helpful, I will use it to try and find immigration information. Just an FYI, I have found a lot of information on my grandfather from church records on the Lublin Roots database. My grandfather was born in Goraj, Biłgoraj, Lublin, Russia and his last residence was Potok-Stany, Janów Lubelski, Lublin, Russia. Do either of you know of a database I could search for baptism records for the R.C. parish in Dylągowa?

Dave D

Re: Need help Identifying town!

dnowicki — Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:36 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 2:36 pm

Dave D wrote:

Based on your feedback I substituted "w" for "v" and found 2 villages in southeast Poland named Dylagowa and Pawlokoma. Do you think these might be the ones I'm looking for.

Dave D

Dave & Cheri,

If you don't mind my adding some info...I think you nailed it, Dave. The R.C. parish for Pawłokoma is Dylągowa. It makes sense that the priest entered Dylągowa since he was interested in where she was baptized and the Declaration of Intention was asking where she was born (evidently in Pawłokoma) and not where she was baptized. The attachment from the Skorowidz shows that the R.C. parish for Pawłokoma is Dylągowa and the Greek Catholic parish was located in Pawłokoma. The map shows how close the two villages were to each other. The part of Galicia where she was from bordered the Russian Partition (Powiat Bilograjski) where there is a village named Potok Górny---possibly the places connected to your grandfather.

Hope you find this info useful.

Dave

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Dave D — Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Author: Dave D

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 12:59 pm

Based on your feedback I substituted "w" for "v" and found 2 villages in southeast Poland named Dylagowa and Pawlokoma. Do you think these might be the ones I'm looking for.

Dave D

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Dave D — Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:59 am

Author: Dave D

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2016 11:59 am

I have not been able to find any documents for my grandmother, not even her immigration (ship manifest), consequently I don't have any information on siblings. I didn't know about the no "w". So you feel that Delingova = Delingowa and Povtokoma = Powtokoma. Do you have any idea where these might be located?

Thanks,
Dave D

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:35 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 8:35 pm

Dave D wrote:

For several years I have searched for the village where my grandmother was born. I have 2 documents providing 2 different villages. One is her 1910 marriage record in America has Delingova (sp) and the other is my grandfather’s 1917 USA Declaration of Intention has Povtokoma. Any help in locating her birth place will be greatly appreciated. I have attached both records with the pertinent information.

Thanks in advance,
Dave D

Hi Dave,
Maybe you know that there is no letter V in the Polish alphabet, so the letter V in either village name would be W in Polish. Did your grandmother have any siblings that also came to the U.S.? If these villages are spelled incorrectly in your grandmother's records, maybe her siblings' records would have the correct spelling.
Cheri

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:39 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 7:39 pm

Iza wrote:

Kamyszyn was always part of the Swilcza. Addresses in Kamyszyn till now are given as Swilcza + house #.
Especially parish wise it was so. So all the parish records were made in Swilcza.
So even if your family (as well as mine) came from Kamyszyn they had to go to Swilcza and all the records then were dated with Swilcza as a place of event.
Very rarely, I found, that Kamyszyn was mentioned in church records.
Hope it makes sense

Iza,
Thanks for writing, it's always good to hear from someone with a shared ancestral home. You do make perfect sense. I now know that the church in Kamyszyn was built long after my grandfather left, so he was baptized in the church in Swilcza. Have you seen the Swilcza church records online? They have birth/baptismal marriage and death records from 1891-1908.

I started a Swilcza forum here at Polish Origins. In case you haven't seen it, you can find it here:
http://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?p=27076#27076
I see that I have run across the Kokoszka surname. I may have seen the Plizga surname as well, I just might not have been able to decipher it from the church books.
Cheri

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Dave D — Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:21 pm

Author: Dave D

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 5:21 pm

For several years I have searched for the village where my grandmother was born. I have 2 documents providing 2 different villages. One is her 1910 marriage record in America has Delingova (sp) and the other is my grandfather’s 1917 USA Declaration of Intention has Povtokoma. Any help in locating her birth place will be greatly appreciated. I have attached both records with the pertinent information.

Thanks in advance,
Dave D

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Iza — Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:17 pm

Author: Iza

Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2016 4:17 pm

Cheri Vanden Berg wrote:

... My mom's cousin told her that my grandfather was born in Kamyszyn, but the manifest for family members all said Świlcza, which is very close to Kamyszyn. The I was lucky enough to find my grandfather, and a few siblings birth records that were on the State Archives site, and he WAS born in Świlcza. I wonder if my mom's cousin's mom wrote to someone from the family in Kamyszyn, and that's why she thought the family was from there...

Re: Need help Identifying town!

LaurieGrz123 — Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:07 pm

Author: LaurieGrz123

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:07 pm

Thanks Cheri! I am definitely going to have to write the priest after Easter and that letter writing guide will be absolutely essential! I would have never thought to write after Easter. So smart!

Re: Need help Identifying town!

LaurieGrz123 — Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:05 pm

Author: LaurieGrz123

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:05 pm

Holy Cow! I am so grateful for you all! This information is absolutely incredible. So extremely helpful! I have so much more to go on now thanks to you all. I am familiar with szukajwarchiwach.pl but am still learning my way around. For the towns my ancestors came from, what is posted is mostly only the Jewish registeries and I had kind of given up! With this new information I will probably have to contact the church like Dave had suggested. Thank you all so much for sharing this knowledge with me. Dave, I am blown away by all that information. It really allows me to realize what life would have been like for him and you have added a whole new dimension to his story. So often you just picture them living at home with their family and then just getting on a ship and the story starts there but now my eyes are opened to everything they actually went through and the story before the ship. So many incredible details. Thank you all for helping me find my family story!
Laurie

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:56 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:56 pm

Thanks Dave,
I think Sophia did a great job finding Mateusz' village Ruda. I do know that Nowa means new in Polish, but I think today I wasn't thinking about the territory of Sarzyna when I was looking for a church. I appreciate that you looked further, and I agree that the first parish to contact would sw. Sebastiana in Sarzyna. Laurie, you should write to the priest in Polish. There should be letter writing guides at Family Search, or you could probably get someone to help you. From advice I've read, you might want to wait until Easter is over because priests are busy at this time, and might put your letter aside.
Cheri

Re: Need help Identifying town!

dnowicki — Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:11 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 4:11 pm

Laurie, Cheri & Sophia,

The parish in Nowa Sarzyna is a rather recently formed parish. Nowa Sarzyna was a small village within the territory of Sarzyna until the late 1930s when it grew to provide housing for workers at a new chemical plant. Prior to that time the R.C. parish for the area was in Sarzyna. Presently there is a parish in Sarzyna and another in Nowa Sarzyna. Since the parish in Nowa Sarzyna didn't exist prior to 1930 it would seem that the parish where the sacramental records would be found is sw. Sebastiana (St. Sebastian) in Sarzyna. Since it does not appear that the records were filmed and since they do not appear to be housed in the Polish National Archives, it would be necessary to contact the parish directly. In my opinion, the first parish to contact would sw. Sebastiana in Sarzyna.

The Ruda attachment is from the Skorowidz...etc. from the early 1930s and lists the R.C. parish for Ruda as Sarzyna. Two of the attachments give the contact info for the parish in Sarzyna and for the parish in Nowa Sarzyna. The map shows the locations of the three places in relation to each other. The excerpt from the Slownik geograficzny provides a bit of history of Sarzyna and the R.C. parish there. It also states that at the time the Slownik was published (1880-1904) the village of Ruda was part of the parish of Sarzyna.

There could have been a number of reasons why Mateusz left Galicia and resided in the Prov. of Posen/Poznan aka the German Partition. He may have been looking for work or he may have done a preemptive move to avoid conscription into the Austrian army since he was near draft age or any number of other reasons. There are two villages named Jablonowo in what at the time was the Prov. of Posen. The idea that he had to reside in German Poland for a time in order to get on a ship is not very likely. Since both Galicia and the Congress Kingdom (Russian Poland) were landlocked the difficult part of the journey for young men of draft age was crossing the border into the Prov. of Posen. To cross at a legal border crossing a man would need to produce proof of military service. Men who had not served in the military sometimes crossed using another man's documents or else hired a "guide" who would get him across the border at a point distant from the legal crossing areas. Once in German Poland the only thing needed was a steamship ticket. If that had not been purchased back in the village where he lived, a man would usually purchase the ticket from one of the local immigrant ship agents in the Prov. of Posen so that everything would be ready when he arrived at the port of embarkation. The two most frequently used ports for Poles were Hamburg and Bremen. The steamship lines were interested in getting passengers on board who would not be rejected once they arrived in the USA and the companies did what they could to make it as easy as possible for their customers---after all, the immigrant trade was the bread and butter of the steamship lines and the civil authorities in the port cities were not looking to keep people from embarking since the immigrant trade was a major economic engine for the port areas.

If the naturalization papers your aunt has are those which were given to Matt when he became naturalized, that is very cool since there was only one copy of the naturalization certificate and that was given to the new citizen. If that is the case, there are other documents (Declaration of Intention, Petition for Naturalization, etc.) which were not given to the new citizen but remained in the archives of the court. Those papers would also be valuable to have and if your aunt did not specifically obtain those, it would not be a bad idea to obtain them yourself.

Wishing you success in your research,

Dave

Re: Need help Identifying town!

LaurieGrz123 — Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:35 am

Author: LaurieGrz123

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:35 am

Sophia and Cheri,
You have know idea how much time you have saved me from searching the wrong place! I can't stand the way the lines are in the address column of the manifests they make it so difficult to see which belongs which person. That helps a lot to see them up close and you are right, that definitely looks like Poznanska. Thank you for finding the map! I love these old maps, they are such a great source. Hopefully it will help me with my next lead.
I know he had brothers but nothing about them. I believe one actually lived down the street from him in Massachusetts(we live about 8 hours away in Maryland). His name was Frank. It's just really odd because all my aunts and uncles (my dad recently passed away) that I have asked had never heard of him! Frank listed the same parents (Sebastyan Grz and Agnieszka Gnatek) as Matthew on his marriage cert and Matthew also listed on the next page of the manifest he was going to stay with his brother Franz in Mass so I have to think it must be true that they are brothers! But anyways back to the point... I think Frank only listed that he was from Ruda. I'm going to try to see if I can find any living relatives of Frank's and see if they have any clue! My great grandfather apparently mostly just spoke Polish and he had some form of dementia supposedly for the last 8 years of his life so that's probably where a lot of the misinformation comes from. I thought I was pretty good at this research stuff until it was time to research Matthew. He has been such a mystery! I can't thank you enough for helping me out! Back to searching for a baptism/birth record! Wish me luck!
Laurie

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:35 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 11:35 am

Laurie,
Are you familiar with the Polish State Archives site? http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/ If not, this might help:
https://familysearch.org/learn/wiki/en/images/a/a1/How_to_Use_the_Digitized_Records_of_the_Polish_State_Archives%29.pdf
However, I'm assuming that all that Sophia found for Ruda Łańcucka was the map (as did I), and all I found for Sarzyna was this map from 1853 that the Austrian government had done. It show Ruda on one of the borders of Sarzyna.http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/56/126/0/-/1485?q=Sarzyna+XSKANro:t&wynik=1&rpp=15&page=1#tabSkany I have been told that you have to get the property key from the Archives, and that should show who the landowners were. As far as I know, the online State Archives is a work in progress...

It looks like Ruda Łańcucka is a very small village. When I searched for a church, I came up with what is on the attachment. I would assume that the people of Ruda would have attended church in Now Sarzyna since it looks like it's only about a mile away.

I also wondered if Krzeszów was in the State Archives. There is another Krzeszów in western Poland. I don't think that the Krzeszów that is near Ruda is in the Archives. I don't think I found a church for that village either. I do remember that Krzeszów was on his death certificate, so I would think that the Ruda on his manifest would be the right village. My mom's cousin told her that my grandfather was born in Kamyszyn, but the manifest for family members all said Świlcza, which is very close to Kamyszyn. The I was lucky enough to find my grandfather, and a few siblings birth records that were on the State Archives site, and he WAS born in Świlcza. I wonder if my mom's cousin's mom wrote to someone from the family in Kamyszyn, and that's why she thought the family was from there.

Cheri

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Sophia — Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:18 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:18 am

Cheri, that does help.

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:14 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 10:14 am

I think that whatever the name is that is after Jablonowo, it belongs to the person in line 4. I have attached the birth place from Mateusz' line 3 and the birth place from line 4.

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Sophia — Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:59 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:59 am

Laurie,
Great map of your Ruda.
http://szukajwarchiwach.pl/56/126/0/-/1423?q=Ruda+XSKANro:t&wynik=3&rpp=15&page=1#tabSkany
Sophia

Re: Need help Identifying town!

Sophia — Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:41 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2016 9:41 am

Laurie,
I see the word below Jablonowo as Poznanska rather than Pomorska. Do you know if your great-grandfather had siblings who also emigrated? If so, have you looked for their ship manifests? You might get a clearer idea of what these towns are.
Sophia