PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Elzbieta I have the copy of the 1903 Marriage

ossnhughie — Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:08 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 12:08 pm

Elzbieta,

Here's the 1903 marriage record perhaps you can make some sense of it at least pertaining to the village.

Hugh

Re: Thank you Elzbieta and Gilberto

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:23 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 6:23 am

ossnhughie wrote:

3rd reference: Marriage record of Jozef Michalkiewicz and Weronika Szymkiewicz who were married in Nowe Troki RCC on the 16th November 1903. Then the record oddly says both from "Przemyslowka Parish Church" instead just referring to it as a village.
Hugh

Hugh,

It could be that some punctuation was missing in the original record translated to "Przemyslowka Parish Church", which superposed to the usual passive form of sentences, with the subject at the end of a long line, made it odd.
Or maybe that pesky English "'s" interfered too:
Przemyslowka's Parish Church = Jewie
Przemyslowka Parish Church = Przemyslowka

If you have an original, it might be possible to clarify. Otherwise, just add it to the list of "mysteries of punctuation".

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Elzbieta I think I found it

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:16 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:16 am

ossnhughie wrote:

Dear Elzbieta,

Again many thanks for the previous help and I think again with your help I found the plkace on the German map you linked. it' is not spelled Przemysluwka but rather Promyslanka. It is in the lower right corner of the map you linked that was German just north of Olesniki. If you look at the area it makes sense because this is very close to the area Weronika's family resided. If you take a look please let me know if you think this might be it.

Warm regards,

Hugh

Yes! Promyślanka with core "myśl", meaning "thought, mind, view, idea, notion, suggestion".

Excellent.

Best,
Elzbieta

Elzbieta I think I found it

ossnhughie — Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:04 am

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 4:04 am

Dear Elzbieta,

Again many thanks for the previous help and I think again with your help I found the plkace on the German map you linked. it' is not spelled Przemysluwka but rather Promyslanka. It is in the lower right corner of the map you linked that was German just north of Olesniki. If you look at the area it makes sense because this is very close to the area Weronika's family resided. If you take a look please let me know if you think this might be it.

Warm regards,

Hugh

Re: Thank you Elzbieta and Gilberto

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:26 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sun Apr 10, 2016 3:26 am

ossnhughie wrote:

Now with this key information I will check my WIG Polish army maps to see where abouts these places are. I had a followup village I wanted to find that appears on some baptism records as well as a marriage record of my my great grandparents.

The village name is as far as I can tell (from my Russian translators) Przemyslowka. To add to the confusion the three records are from two different RCC parishes.

1st reference: birth record of Maria Szymkiewicz who was born 3 July 1898 in the said village and baptized 12 July in the Jewie (Vievis) Roman Catholic Church.

2nd reference:birth record of Julia Szymkiewicz who was born 29 August 1901 in the same village (spelled- Przemsluwka) and baptized 2 September 1901 in Nowe Troki Roman Catholic Church.

3rd reference: Marriage record of Jozef Michalkiewicz and Weronika Szymkiewicz who were married in Nowe Troki RCC on the 16th November 1903. Then the record oddly says both from "Przemyslowka Parish Church" instead just referring to it as a village.

Here are the facts as I know them the 2 baptisms mentioned are Weronika's younger sisters (She herself was baptized in Kozakiszki in 1885), Her younger brother Bronislaw (born 1895) was also baptized in Kozakiszki RCC. This is partly explained I think by previous research that shows the Weronika's ancestors are all seemingly from what I have found member of the Szlachta class and might have had property divided between sons in various parts of Troki county.

Jozef Michalkiewicz who was of peasant origin was from Suderwa Parish and was himself born in Dombrowciszki in June of 1875, as were all of his siblings including the youngest his brother Ludwik who was born in 1891. The part that gets interesting is that the first child I have found of Jozef and Weronika after there 1903 marriage was my great uncle Rafal who was born in Dombrowciszki in June of 1906 and baptized in Suderwa.

I have looked through some of the WIG maps and for the life of me can't find Przemyslowka yet it must be in theory, fairly close proximity to Jewie (Vievis) or Nowe Troki. One tidbit I found out from an archivist was that Nowe Troki was a popular place to be married do to the miraculous image of the Virgin Mary at the church in that village. I believe Pope St. John Paul II visited the shrine during his Papacy.

Thanks to those that can help, I apologize if the information provided was to extensive; I just wanted to make sure I set up the situation regarding the families.

Warmest regards,

Hugh

Hugh,

Re: Przemyslowka or Przemsluwka (transliteration from Cyrillic)

While the Polish ears detect the core "przemysł" meaning "industry" in the above name, or maybe "przemyśl" which have "myśl" as the core, meaning "thought, mind, view, idea, notion, suggestion", that might not be the real source for people living in that Lithuanian area.
There is a river Musė, north to the river Neris which is, at least partly, the natural border between Kansas region and Vilnus region, see wiki for the territory Lapeles, Lapelės:
https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lapel%C4%97s

My idea - to be confirmed or discarded - is that in the transliterrated word "Przemyslowka", "prze" means "przy"="near", and then it is that river Musė name; that the name of the toponym is from Musė.
In which case it would be to the north, somewhere on the Polish map with Lithouanian names:
http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/100K_300dpi/P29_S39_KAISIADORYS_%28KOSZEDARY%29_1935_300dpi.jpg
Or better here, on German map with Polish names:
http://www.mapywig.org/m/German_maps/series/100K_KdWR/400dpi/KdwR_P22_Koszedary_1916_400dpi.jpg

My Google maps tracking with Lithuanian names:
Čiobiškis,+Vilnius+County,+Lithuania/Lapelės/Maišiagala,+Lithuania/Sudervė,+Vilnius+County,+Lithuania/Paaliosė,+Lithuania/Kozakiszki,+Vilnius+County,+Lithuania/Alesninkai,+Vilnius+County,+Lithuania/Vievis,+Lithuania/Vilūniškės+II,+Vilnius+County,+Lithuania/Trakai,+Lithuania

MORE DIGGING:
Pamusiai -- could it be the searched name?

https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pamusiai_(%C5%A0irvintos)
click on the smallest admin unit, Čiobiškio seniūnija
https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%8Ciobi%C5%A1kio_seni%C5%ABnija
IMPORTANT: there is a list of all settlements, with Lithuanian names in the table with title:
Gyvenvietė Statusas[1] Gyventojų skaičius
which translates into
Settlement Status [1] Population
Apparently this is only in Lithuanian wiki, but there are lists of all settlements for all Lithuanian!
See in the bottom:
Širvintų rajono seniūnijos
Translates to:
Širvintos district elderate
cf. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elderships_of_Lithuania
It seems then that "seniūnija" may also indicate parish, cf:
"A seniūnija (in English: eldership, elderate, ward,[1] parish,[2] or subdistrict)[3] is the smallest administrative division of Lithuania."

Best,
Elzbieta

update I found the villages!!!

ossnhughie — Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:21 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 7:21 pm

Elzbieta and Gilberto,

Thank to your contributions I found the villages i was looking for on the wig maps.

http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/100K_300dpi/P30_S40_WILNO_1935_300dpi_bcuj297848-285056.jpg

in the northwest corner of the above 1:100 Wilno map are found the villages of Kurkliszki and to the northeast many settlements Wiluniszki a village, a Folwark and a Zascianek all by the name.

http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/100K/P29_S40_MEJSZAGOLA_1928_600dpi_bcuj297838-285041.jpg

On the following map a village of Podolosie is in the place right were the Paaliose is on the google map (great job Elzbieta!!!)

Hopefully one of you guys or someone else can find help out with the post previous to this.

Warmest regards,

Hugh

Thank you Elzbieta and Gilberto

ossnhughie — Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:47 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 2:47 pm

Now with this key information I will check my WIG Polish army maps to see where abouts these places are. I had a followup village I wanted to find that appears on some baptism records as well as a marriage record of my my great grandparents.

The village name is as far as I can tell (from my Russian translators) Przemyslowka. To add to the confusion the three records are from two different RCC parishes.

1st reference: birth record of Maria Szymkiewicz who was born 3 July 1898 in the said village and baptized 12 July in the Jewie (Vievis) Roman Catholic Church.

2nd reference:birth record of Julia Szymkiewicz who was born 29 August 1901 in the same village (spelled- Przemsluwka) and baptized 2 September 1901 in Nowe Troki Roman Catholic Church.

3rd reference: Marriage record of Jozef Michalkiewicz and Weronika Szymkiewicz who were married in Nowe Troki RCC on the 16th November 1903. Then the record oddly says both from "Przemyslowka Parish Church" instead just referring to it as a village.

Here are the facts as I know them the 2 baptisms mentioned are Weronika's younger sisters (She herself was baptized in Kozakiszki in 1885), Her younger brother Bronislaw (born 1895) was also baptized in Kozakiszki RCC. This is partly explained I think by previous research that shows the Weronika's ancestors are all seemingly from what I have found member of the Szlachta class and might have had property divided between sons in various parts of Troki county.

Jozef Michalkiewicz who was of peasant origin was from Suderwa Parish and was himself born in Dombrowciszki in June of 1875, as were all of his siblings including the youngest his brother Ludwik who was born in 1891. The part that gets interesting is that the first child I have found of Jozef and Weronika after there 1903 marriage was my great uncle Rafal who was born in Dombrowciszki in June of 1906 and baptized in Suderwa.

I have looked through some of the WIG maps and for the life of me can't find Przemyslowka yet it must be in theory, fairly close proximity to Jewie (Vievis) or Nowe Troki. One tidbit I found out from an archivist was that Nowe Troki was a popular place to be married do to the miraculous image of the Virgin Mary at the church in that village. I believe Pope St. John Paul II visited the shrine during his Papacy.

Thanks to those that can help, I apologize if the information provided was to extensive; I just wanted to make sure I set up the situation regarding the families.

Warmest regards,

Hugh

Re: tranlating lithuanian village names into Polish

Anonymous — Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:52 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:52 am

Hugh and Ezlbieta,

http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ilwinneb/placelit.htm

Gilberto

Re: tranlating lithuanian village names into Polish

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:05 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Apr 09, 2016 6:05 am

ossnhughie wrote:

Hello my PO friends,

I have no idea if anyone here is familiar with Lithuanian or with how Polish translates from, or into Lithuanian. A researcher found quite a few baptism records in the archives in Vilnius in various parish metric books when he sent the information he forgot to send the birth village names in Polish, and due to this I can't find the villages on the WIG Polish Army maps from the 20's and 30's.

Anyone who could help shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated.

Viluniskes in Jewie (Vievis) parish
Kurliskes in Nowe Troki parish
Paaliose in Kozakiszki parish

Thank you so much, if you can even get this close. I looked online and I think these villages might not exist in modern Lithuania. I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first, or the last time)

Sincerely,

Hugh

Hugh,

I concur, with real sorrow, that on Lithuanian side there is so few corresponding Polish toponyms, so nobody can easily find name, not even for cemeteries.

Credits to Google for finding Polishroots with this page
http://polishroots.org/GeographyMaps/tabid/56/Default.aspx
Then click on Lithuania on the right side, you are here:
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LH/

Your names are not on the Lithuania list, so I started to dig inside the first "None" on the top, giving a list of letters from Latin, Cyrillic, and others alphabeths. Click on the first J for Jewie, then on "Je" next page, et voilà!

http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LH/00/Vievis.html

Your name Viluniskes looks like
Vilūniškės II, Lithuania
-- it is close to Vievis.
Wiki for Vilūniškės gives Polish name Wiłuniszki, and even URL to the old geography book
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XIII/542
https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vil%C5%ABni%C5%A1k%C4%97s

Are Kurkliszki (Kurkliškes)? Your name is Kurliskes, missing "k" inside, is that Kurkliskes?
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/LH/00/Kurkliskes.html

Then wiki (in Lithuanian only!)
https://lt.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurkli%C5%A1k%C4%97s
Then you have no choice but click on their maps, then find out where it is on Google maps.

I could not find the third name on your list, but wiki was of help
https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kozakiszki
-- in Lithuanian Kazokiškės

The only answer I got for "Paaliose" is from Google,
https://www.google.fr/maps/place/Paalios%C4%97+21354,+Lithuania/
Vievis, Kozakiszki and Paaliose form a little triangle.

I trust that with all the above, you will find it on WIG maps.

Best,
Elzbieta

tranlating lithuanian village names into Polish

ossnhughie — Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:44 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Thu Apr 07, 2016 8:44 pm

Hello my PO friends,

I have no idea if anyone here is familiar with Lithuanian or with how Polish translates from, or into Lithuanian. A researcher found quite a few baptism records in the archives in Vilnius in various parish metric books when he sent the information he forgot to send the birth village names in Polish, and due to this I can't find the villages on the WIG Polish Army maps from the 20's and 30's.

Anyone who could help shed some light on this would be greatly appreciated.

Viluniskes in Jewie (Vievis) parish
Kurliskes in Nowe Troki parish
Paaliose in Kozakiszki parish

Thank you so much, if you can even get this close. I looked online and I think these villages might not exist in modern Lithuania. I could be wrong (it wouldn't be the first, or the last time)

Sincerely,

Hugh