PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

ossnhughie — Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:30 am

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sat Oct 29, 2016 12:30 am

Sirdan,

i meant to tell you that after a Polish speaker (and working on his masters in Russian) looked at the original document he spelled just the way it is on the map that you linked. So it seems that at some point in the late 1700's and before that this was owned by my ancestor. The one vexing thing about having szlachta ancestors is that they seem to move around quite a bit, the peasant/farmer lines of my Polish heritage have proven to be much easier to trace.

Hugh

Re: locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

sirdan — Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:59 am

Author: sirdan

Posted: Mon Oct 10, 2016 1:59 am

Kościeniewo is not same as Koshchynevo, but the latter is processed two times, so Kościeniewo is best match for now. On this map this place is quite big, with many buildings http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/025K/P36-S40-I_KOSCIENIEWO_1939.jpg

Kościeniewo is in powiat Lida so can be taken into consideration. But from the beginning the owner of this place was Kostewicz family, and later some Kostrowicka lady. The possesion changes must be investigated further.

On that jewish site you have Radziminski-Frackiewicz h. Brodzic. H. is shortcut from herb which is Coat of arms, so this should explain all.

Radzimina (with the -a ending) is stylized, i dont know where it come from, but some family names were ended with a somehow. Once i wrote to you Radzimina name might mean "z Radzimina" which means "from Radzimin", so it could be that Frąckiewicz was from Radzimin. And that was written in last link to google book.
The only "issue" is locating right Radzimin. This can be Radzymin i Mazowieckie voivodeship, but according to Brodzic coat of arm, Brodzice were near Płońsk/Płońsko in mazowieckie. But oh well, story begins in xv c. - there were so many connections and coat of arm branches.

Re: locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

ossnhughie — Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 7:22 pm

Sirdan,

After looking on the http://www.kami.net.pl/kresy/ website and typing in Koshchynevo and [u]Koszczyniewo[u] i found a soundex match for a place called Koscieniewo north east of Szczuczyn.

This area seems to have been part of the former Lida powiat of the late 1700's tell me what you think about the spelling andif you think it probable.

Just found this after typing in Lida Radzaminski-Frackiewicz:

http://kehilalinks.jewishgen.org/lida-district/zaludok.htm

It's a site that is fucused on Jeiwsh genealogy from Lida yet in mentions the history of Zoludek and how it was a town the the Radziminski Frackiewicz family received from the Sapieha family (as a dowry) It seems my Frackiewicz ancestors at one time (much to my surprise) were more then just petty "grey nobility" I just wonder how far back I can go??

As a history buff I find the prospect of finding out more fascinating.

*Sirdan the spelling on my documents is Radazimina-Frackiewicz this is this the same as Radzaminski-Frackiewicz???

Also this book online has paes where it mentions the Radzimina-Frackiewicz family (I'll have to see about having it translated)

https://books.google.com/books?id=PrhBAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA165&dq=Radzimina+Frackiewicz&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJt5HFxM_PAhXBSCYKHdLkB2EQ6AEIIDAA#v=onepage&q=Radzimina%20Frackiewicz&f=false

Hugh

Re: locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

ossnhughie — Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:48 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 4:48 pm

Sidan I think you are on to something with Borejkiszki, this location is just north of the parish my ancestors were known to have lived by circa 1810 so I know that in the 1811 census says they left the Miciuny village in Nowe Troki parish in 1803 so perhaps they settled on this other ancestral property. Now I just need to verify the parish Borejkiszki belongs to and see if I can find nobles with the name Frackiewicz. Mejszagola does have records online so if thats the parish for the village I am all set. I think my best avenue with the last village is to scan the Lida area maps and see what turns up. It has to be a fairly limited geographic area.

Hugh

Re: locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

sirdan — Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:08 pm

Author: sirdan

Posted: Sun Oct 09, 2016 3:08 pm

Hi Hugh, theese lithuanian village names are headakes, so many similar names at various areas, specific endings, small gatherings smaller than villagess like przysiólek, zaścianek, dwór, folwark etc makes all things more difficult.
I believe you found Poholsza place, it does not sound right at first, but map confirms its correct. The good thing in this mess is that there are many detailed maps with all those names. The Boreikishki name sounds like Borejkiszki. There is a wikipedia site of Borejkiszki http://www.kaisiadoriumuziejus.lt/enciklopedija/index.php?title=Bareiki%C5%A1k%C4%97s to make more confusion to us.. cause i cannot locate it. I found other Borejkiszki in Troki area, its near Mejszagoła so it means something.. open this map http://www.mapywig.org/m/WIG_maps/series/100K_300dpi/P29_S39_KAISIADORYS_(KOSZEDARY)_1935_300dpi.jpg and look oth the very right side, between 32 and 28 latitudes, its in polish spelling.
Koshchynevo might mean Koszczyniewo, i cannot locate it right now,, you may look it for yourself on maps with polish names, i look for it later too.

locating ancestors properties in Troki and Lida uyezd

ossnhughie — Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:03 pm

Author: ossnhughie

Posted: Sat Oct 08, 2016 1:03 pm

My PO friends,

I have recently received a translation of the description of a old nobility argument for my Radzamina-Frackiewicz family, it contains a wealth of information. It also mentions that in 1778 the family sold one of their estates Poholsha in Ozmiana Uyezd to a Adam Zavadzki. They sold this estate, still having possession of two other family estates (these are ones I need help finding)

Boreikishki in Troki Uyezd.

Koshchynevo in Lida Uyezd.

My researcher is Lithuanian sdo when she translated into English she might have not spelled the names of these estates/villages as a Pole would spell them. She was translating from a Russian document, so it wouldn't surprise me if there is a potential typo in there.

I am looking for help finding these places and there most likely Polish spelling and if thats not possible a map of the areas covered by these two Uyezds in the late 1700's timeframe.

The good news:

I believe I found Poholsha on one of the Polish Army maps from the 20's its to the south-south west of Oszmiana village and on this map is spelled Poholsza .

As an interesting aside according to the same translated nobility documents, Poholsha was purchased in 1682 by my 7th great-grandfather Jerzy Radzamina-Frackiewicz. It included peasants.

In 1759 Jerzy son of Jan Radzamina-Frackiewicz conducted will that after his fathers death, he and his brother Jan (my 6th great Grandfather) would become co-owners of the estate.

Jerzy left his portion of the estate to his sons Tomasz, Jerzy, Andrzej and Kazimierz.

In 1766 Jan (my 6th G-gfather) granted his portion of Poholsha to his two middle sons: Piotr (my 5th great grandfather) and Mateusz Marcin. His other estates Koshchynevo and Boreikishki he kept to himself for now.

In sales document from 1778 brothers Tomasz, Jerzy, Andrzej, and Kazimierz with son Jan. Piotr with his sons Stefan Bartlomiej, Antoni Grzegorz (4th great grandfather) Mateusz Marcin with his sons Jerzy Felix, Andrzej, and Marcin have sold their estate to Adam Zavadzki.

This is great information I never thought I'd see but I feel like an estate lawyer

Please let me know if you can help or what you think.