PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:48 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 6:48 am

Thank you, Karol! I am lucky to meet you as you have been so kind in helping to search.

It looks like this is not the answer we need. It must be back to the original UMZ records, I think. I cannot guess where the Skoniecki family came from, as there is no Gotfryd Skoniecki born in Biezun in the 1770s or 1780s...

Thank you, thank you very much for looking and searching for answers with the Archives . I appreciate it

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:18 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:18 am

i SPOKE WITH REGISTRY OFFICE in Biezuń. they dont have any census records from 19 and early 20 century. they started to keep this kind of documents since 1970'.
they told me that they belong to the Mława State Archives. i made phone call to Mława but they told me that Bieżuń belongs to Mława Archives since 1945, earlier it belonged to płock. but as i said Płock doesy have any census records from Bieżuń only the documents i wrote earlier about people who emigrated to prussia.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:35 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2017 11:35 pm

Meredith wrote:

Thank you, Karol, and nice to meet you!

I do not believe that Anna Justyna is buried and recorded in Rypin books, but perhaps the earlier Skoniecki family came from that area. It is worth something to check, if I can. Gotfryd, based on his age from his children's baptism records, was born circa 1782 and his wife was born circa 1787.

They are a mystery

Meredith

I got answer from Płock State Archives.

Here it is:

Archiwum Państwowe w Płocku uprzejmie informuje, że w swoim zasobie nie posiadamy ksiąg meldunkowych miasta Bieżunia z okresu XIX i XX wieku. Jednocześnie informujemy, że w aktach Kancelaria Gubernatora Płockiego odnaleziono sygn. 1310 „Lista osób, które przekroczyły granicę z Prusami w poszukiwaniu pracy – miast Bieżuń – 1891 rok.

Płock State Archives informs that in our resources there are no census records from city Bieżuń of XIX and XX century. At the same time we inform that in Płock Governor Office files there are documents: list of people who crossed the prussian border for looking for a job - City Bieżuń, 1891. Signature 1310.

I will male a phone call to Bieżuń registry office and to Bieżuń city museum and ask about those census records. maybe they have some information.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:48 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 8:48 am

Dziękuję Ci, Karol. Hvala vam puno (Thank you very much )

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:42 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:42 am

Meredith wrote:

Hi Karol,

I am just saying "hello" and checking in to see if Płock State Archives have responded to you yet. If they have not, I am in no hurry and am patient .

I have gotten no further searching, though Geneteka has indexed M 1856-1910 for Bieżuń, so that is nice. I have researched all those marriage record before, but it is easier to look them up in an index, of course. What I really need, though, are the 1825-1855 church records!!!

Take care, and hope you are well,

Meredith

hello, i am still waiting for the answer. i will inform you

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2017 7:30 am

Hi Karol,

I am just saying "hello" and checking in to see if Płock State Archives have responded to you yet. If they have not, I am in no hurry and am patient .

I have gotten no further searching, though Geneteka has indexed M 1856-1910 for Bieżuń, so that is nice. I have researched all those marriage record before, but it is easier to look them up in an index, of course. What I really need, though, are the 1825-1855 church records!!!

Take care, and hope you are well,

Meredith

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:45 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:45 am

Thank you so kindly for contacting the Archives! That was very nice of you to do that

I have done a little looking (just through the indexing at Geneteka) for the Skoniecki and the Gil (Anna Szarlotta, Gotfryd Skoniecki's wife, Anna Justyna's mother) families. The surname, Gil or Giel, and Skoniecki are common in the Kujawsko-Pomorskie area. I am not familiar too much with research there, but it gives me hope to see the names more common together than in Mazowieckie.

Perhaps the Skoniecki family came to Bieżuń from the Rypin area before 1812?

Thank you for checking!

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:53 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Mon Mar 13, 2017 3:53 am

Meredith wrote:

Hello,

i just spoke with the Płock State Archives worker and he asked me to write email and ask about the census records from Bieżuń. Usually they answer in one or two weeks. So we have to wait patiently for the answer.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:19 pm

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:19 pm

Thank you, Karol, and nice to meet you!

I do not believe that Anna Justyna is buried and recorded in Rypin books, but perhaps the earlier Skoniecki family came from that area. It is worth something to check, if I can. Gotfryd, based on his age from his children's baptism records, was born circa 1782 and his wife was born circa 1787.

They are a mystery

Meredith

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:40 pm

Meredith wrote:

Thank you, Marcel -- and I realize that marcelproust (as in the author) may just be your User Name and not your actual name; I am sorry if I have been calling you incorrectly!

I have never seen census records from Bieżuń...that would be wonderful if you have time to check if they exist; thank you.

I have tried to trace the Skoniecki family through the godparents/witnesses at Gotfryd i Anna Szarlotta's children's baptisms. Most of the men were clothiers (as Gotfryd was) or tailors. And most of the men were from the Bieżuń area -- I found, for example, several who married there 1800-1812. But no marriage for Gotfryd in Bieżuń.

I have also checked the UMZ index for the parish 1756-1808: no Gotfryd born there (and no Anna Szarlotta, either; her maiden name is Gild or Gield, as she is recorded "Anna Szarlotta z Gildow" in the acts). I am posting the 1812 baptism record of Anna Justyna, the first sign of the SKoniecki family in Bieżuń. I am also posting Anna Justyna's 1836 marriage, just to see. Perhaps I am missing some detail!

Thank you again for discussing this with me,
M

My real name is Karol, Marcel is my nickname. I just read that Bieżuń evangelics belonged to Rypin evangelic parish.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:08 pm

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 2:08 pm

Thank you, Marcel -- and I realize that marcelproust (as in the author) may just be your User Name and not your actual name; I am sorry if I have been calling you incorrectly!

I have never seen census records from Bieżuń...that would be wonderful if you have time to check if they exist; thank you.

I have tried to trace the Skoniecki family through the godparents/witnesses at Gotfryd i Anna Szarlotta's children's baptisms. Most of the men were clothiers (as Gotfryd was) or tailors. And most of the men were from the Bieżuń area -- I found, for example, several who married there 1800-1812. But no marriage for Gotfryd in Bieżuń.

I have also checked the UMZ index for the parish 1756-1808: no Gotfryd born there (and no Anna Szarlotta, either; her maiden name is Gild or Gield, as she is recorded "Anna Szarlotta z Gildow" in the acts). I am posting the 1812 baptism record of Anna Justyna, the first sign of the SKoniecki family in Bieżuń. I am also posting Anna Justyna's 1836 marriage, just to see. Perhaps I am missing some detail!

Thank you again for discussing this with me,
M

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:52 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 1:52 pm

Meredith wrote:

Cynthia --

Good thinking! My ideas had wondered along those lines, too, to a point. Yes: "Gotfryd" and even "Szarlotta" (Charlotte) sounded to me more German than Polish.

If I can find them, I will check Evangelical/Protestant records as well.

But here's the HOWEVER part: in the early records (early 1800s, up to maybe 1820), Catholic, Evangelical and Jewish records were all registered in the same book. So I viewed all those records at the same time. Consistently, every single record, the Gotfryd and Anna Szarlotta Skoniecki family were recorded in the Catholic entries: for baptisms of their children and for deaths of their children, as well as marriages (for example, of their daughter, Anna Justyna, in 1836). ALL Catholic, when there was clear opportunity to belong to and be registered in an Evangelical church.

So it seems pretty certain they were Catholic and led Catholic worship lives in Biezun. Anna Justyna was baptized and married Catholic; it would seem odd for her to suddenly convert to Evangelicalism right before death. Now, were Gotfryd and Anna Szarlotta, her parents, born Catholic? Who knows? All I know is they baptized and buried and married their children Catholic, even though there was a Protestant church right there for them.

My guess is that the Skoniecki family came from somewhere else prior to 1812, when Anna Justyna was born in Biezun. But where???

Thanks for your suggestion and your experience. I will see if I can find Protestant records for the 1880s, just in case.

Meredith

One of the nearest Evangelic church was in Sierpc. i also think the good idea would be to check the census records from Bieżuń. I dont know if they exist but i will ask the State Archives about it.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:25 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:25 am

Cynthia --

Good thinking! My ideas had wondered along those lines, too, to a point. Yes: "Gotfryd" and even "Szarlotta" (Charlotte) sounded to me more German than Polish.

If I can find them, I will check Evangelical/Protestant records as well.

But here's the HOWEVER part: in the early records (early 1800s, up to maybe 1820), Catholic, Evangelical and Jewish records were all registered in the same book. So I viewed all those records at the same time. Consistently, every single record, the Gotfryd and Anna Szarlotta Skoniecki family were recorded in the Catholic entries: for baptisms of their children and for deaths of their children, as well as marriages (for example, of their daughter, Anna Justyna, in 1836). ALL Catholic, when there was clear opportunity to belong to and be registered in an Evangelical church.

So it seems pretty certain they were Catholic and led Catholic worship lives in Biezun. Anna Justyna was baptized and married Catholic; it would seem odd for her to suddenly convert to Evangelicalism right before death. Now, were Gotfryd and Anna Szarlotta, her parents, born Catholic? Who knows? All I know is they baptized and buried and married their children Catholic, even though there was a Protestant church right there for them.

My guess is that the Skoniecki family came from somewhere else prior to 1812, when Anna Justyna was born in Biezun. But where???

Thanks for your suggestion and your experience. I will see if I can find Protestant records for the 1880s, just in case.

Meredith

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

mcdonald0517 — Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:17 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:17 am

Meredith,

I have another suggestion. I encountered something similar when researching my family - all of a sudden they seem to disappear because I could not find their death records. On a gut feeling, I then checked the Evangelical Parish books even though up to that point all of the records were Roman Catholic. - bingo! I found them.

The reason I suggest you check the Evangelical books is because Anna Justyny's fathers name was Gotfryd which is German. Also, Biezun was close to the Prussian/Russian border. Anna's family may have been German colonists, in which case, they were Evangelicals living in Roman Catholic areas. In such situations, their birth and marriage records would have been recorded by the Catholic Parish if there was not an Evangelical church nearby. However, Anna Justyny may have wanted her death recorded in the Evangelical church. That was the case with my family. My Great Grandparents were baptized Evangelical, moved to Russian partition, their children were married in Catholic churches to Roman Catholics, but when my Grandparents died, their deaths were recorded in the nearest Evangelical church which was some miles away. That is why I couldn't find them - I was looking in Roman Catholic parishes. It took me years to find them.

I know it is a long shot, but you seem to have done everything else - why not give it a try?

Wishing you success,
Cynthia

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:55 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:55 am

Hi Marcel,

Yes, I considered that perhaps Marianna married after Pawel died in 1884, so I checked the marriage records for a reasonable time period (up to about 1900; Marianna would have been 94 in 1900). Her son, Antoni, died in 1900, as you know (yes, only index, but I can check again on GenBaza to see if the actual record may be there -- I do not think so). I have not found a 2nd marriage for Marianna...

And yes, I have checked for these death records in Lutocin, Chamsk, Zuromin, i Radzanow, as well as Gradzanowo and Rosciszewo. I believe I also tried Sierpc. Some of the neighboring parishes do not have full records for the timeframe, but most do. I am not great with the Russian, but know enough to identify the surnames.

They both seem to disappear! Tracing Anna Justyna Kosin, born Skonieczna/Skoniecka, has been very hard. Her parents, Gotfryd and Anna Szarlotta Skoniecki, appear in Biezun in 1812, in Anna Justyna's baptism record; they do not exist in Biezun before that, and I have never found them. I was hoping that Anna Justyna Kosin's death record might provide clues to her family origins...

Thank you, Marcel, for discussing this with me. It has been a longtime mystery

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:11 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 8:11 am

Meredith wrote:

Hello!

Cynthia -- neither of those records pertain to "my" Franciszek or "my" Marianna; I have seen and translated both of them before. I have used Geneteka and Genealodzy's Metryki pretty thoroughly .Thank you for looking, however.

And Marcel, thank you for taking the time to translate these! I am sorry I did not get online sooner to save you the trouble. As you can see, the Franciszek is only an infant and clearly not my elderly Franciszek. And, also, you can see that the "Marianna Kosin" -- I am looking for Anna Justyna Kosin -- who passed away in 1882 is the widow of Michal, not the widow of Franciszek, and is also of the Graczyk family, not the Skoniecki family and does not have the correct first name.

Thank you all for looking...These death records seem impossible to find.

Maybe those people You are looking for died in different parish? Maybe Marianna married someone after her husband died and she changed her surname and maybe she died in different place.

In 1900 died Antoni Peściński, son of Marianna maiden name Abramska and Paweł Peściński but the death record is not available online. There is only index of deceased for this year. If we could take a look at this death record we could know somethind about Marianna.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:24 am

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:24 am

Hello!

Cynthia -- neither of those records pertain to "my" Franciszek or "my" Marianna; I have seen and translated both of them before. I have used Geneteka and Genealodzy's Metryki pretty thoroughly .Thank you for looking, however.

And Marcel, thank you for taking the time to translate these! I am sorry I did not get online sooner to save you the trouble. As you can see, the Franciszek is only an infant and clearly not my elderly Franciszek. And, also, you can see that the "Marianna Kosin" -- I am looking for Anna Justyna Kosin -- who passed away in 1882 is the widow of Michal, not the widow of Franciszek, and is also of the Graczyk family, not the Skoniecki family and does not have the correct first name.

Thank you all for looking...These death records seem impossible to find.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

marcelproust — Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:03 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 7:03 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Hi Meredith,

I found a death record for Marianna Kosin in 1882 using the Metryki database Gilberto suggested. It is attached. I also found a death record for Franciszek Kosin in the same year - 1882 that was reported by another Franciszek Kosin (also attached). There are obviously 2 people with the name Franciszek Kosin (perhaps father and son?). So now to discover which Franciszek died in 1882 and which one married in 1884. You should be able to tell once you get these records translated.

Best,
Cynthia

I live very close to Bieżuń.

128
Bieżuń

It took place in Bieżuń on 23 August (4 September) 1882 at 8 a.m. Appeared Franciszek Kosin, slaughterer, 46 years old and Walenty Witkowski, farmer, 45 years old, both living in Bieżuń and said that on 21 August (2 September) 1882 at 8 a.m. died Franciszek Kosin, 1 years old, living with his parents in Bieżuń, born in Bieżuń, son of Franciszek Kosin and Teofila Kosin.
After eye belief about Franciszek Kosin death act was read to present, all illiterate,signed by the priest, administrator of Bieżuń parish Józef Smoleński.

63
Bieżuń

It took place in Bieżuń on 2 (14 ) April 1882 at 9 a.m. Appeared Antoni Peścieński, shoemaker, 55 years old and Marcin Mrozek, blacksmith, 40 years old, both living in Bieżuń and said that on 31 March (12 April) 1882 at 10 a.m. died Maryanna Kosin maiden name Graczyk, fsrmer, widow after deceased Michał, living in Bieżuń, 75 years old, born in Jonne, daughter of deceased parents, spouses Graczyk, names unknown.
After eye belief about Maryanna Kosin death act was read to present, all illiterate, signed by the priest Józef Smoleński administrator of Bieżuń parish.

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

mcdonald0517 — Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:46 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:46 pm

Hi Meredith,

I found a death record for Marianna Kosin in 1882 using the Metryki database Gilberto suggested. It is attached. I also found a death record for Franciszek Kosin in the same year - 1882 that was reported by another Franciszek Kosin (also attached). There are obviously 2 people with the name Franciszek Kosin (perhaps father and son?). So now to discover which Franciszek died in 1882 and which one married in 1884. You should be able to tell once you get these records translated.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Bieżuń Mazowieckie Research

Meredith — Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:22 pm

Author: Meredith

Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:22 pm

Yes, Gilberto, I am, and have searched through those records as well. GenBaza has some alegata that Genealodzy's Metryki does not have, but both are fairly similar.

Meredith