PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

Anonymous — Wed May 24, 2017 4:49 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 4:49 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

I feel like what Watson was to Sherlock! I have so much to learn and still don't understand how you've found all these records.

Otmianowo is also listed on Antoni Dudzinski's immigration passenger list. A new twist is that he said he was with his father, Jozef, in Otmianowo.

Dave, your list of given name showing the Latin/English/Polish equivalents will be of great help. And Gilberto, your map is a great idea and helps to visually show these relationships and how they moved about and came together.

I was up last night, bleary eyed from trying to pick out information from the records you've identified for me. As I closed up shop, I thought I had sent you a message, Gilberto but, in looking at my sent box I don't see any evidence that it was sent out...did you get anything from me? In my haste, perhaps I hit delete rather than send, in which case I'll have to write again.

Again.. I cannot thank you all enough for your help and patience with me!
Best,
Joe Gwizdowski

Watson, no messages in.

Holmes

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Wed May 24, 2017 1:31 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 1:31 pm

I feel like what Watson was to Sherlock! I have so much to learn and still don't understand how you've found all these records.

Otmianowo is also listed on Antoni Dudzinski's immigration passenger list. A new twist is that he said he was with his father, Jozef, in Otmianowo.

Dave, your list of given name showing the Latin/English/Polish equivalents will be of great help. And Gilberto, your map is a great idea and helps to visually show these relationships and how they moved about and came together.

I was up last night, bleary eyed from trying to pick out information from the records you've identified for me. As I closed up shop, I thought I had sent you a message, Gilberto but, in looking at my sent box I don't see any evidence that it was sent out...did you get anything from me? In my haste, perhaps I hit delete rather than send, in which case I'll have to write again.

Again.. I cannot thank you all enough for your help and patience with me!
Best,
Joe Gwizdowski

Re: Antoni Dudzinski Birthyear

Anonymous — Wed May 24, 2017 6:37 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed May 24, 2017 6:37 am

Magroski49 wrote:

JGwizdowski wrote:

As best I can establish, Antoni Dudzinski (or was it Dudczak?) was born in 1875

He married in 1902, record nr. 2, in Boniewo, to Katarzyna Murawski.

Gilberto

Antoni was surely born somewhere in the area shown on the map attached. Klobia, where Ewa was born; Zglowiaczka, where she and Wawrzyniec got married; Sawilno; where Wincenty was born; Boniewo, where Antoni got married and Otmianowo where he last resided before departuring to the USA. I would consider he went by two given names.

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

dnowicki — Tue May 23, 2017 9:18 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 9:18 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

Dave...I had to follow up and thank you again for the link you provided a couple of weeks ago.

While I have not had any luck so far with my original target "Budzinski," I made some remarkable strides on my Koscinski line, finding several birth records for my grandmother's siblings. It's taken me 20 years to get to this point! If only the internet and online availability of scanned records had been available back then!!

One question I have in using https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ search techniques...
When I searched for "koscinski" I was returned 3 hits which, I believe so far, are another branch of Koscinski's.

However, when I searched for "Kościński" using the Polish characters, I was returned with 115 hits!

This got me thinking: what am I missing when searching other ancestors names by using the Americanized spelling? I wouldn't even know what to use for, say Budzinski, or Gwizdowski, etc.

Any additional insight into the naming conventions used in these searches are GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks Again!
Joe Gwizdowski

Joe,

Looks like you’ve made great progress with Gilberto’s help. To address your earlier question regarding diacritical marks in Polish surnames---Diacritics are important and make a difference. Polish uses the Roman alphabet with additions/modifications to symbolize Polish sounds. Letters with diacritical marks are distinct letters when compared to the same letter without the diacritical mark. It is true that adding diacritical marks can change the results you get from a search. You asked about Budzinski. If you were to add the diacritical mark the name would appear as Budziński and it is not pronounced the same way as Budzinski. Just to add another variable the surname Budziński also is found in Poland as Budzyński. Although it is true that each letter in the Polish alphabet has its own pronunciation which does not change like some letters do in English (“c” for example in English can be either hard or soft like in cat vs. cease), the way a person enunciates can change the way the listener writes the word. As a general rule, surnames ending in the letters “nski” usually employ the diacritic over the “n” which changes it to “ń” and the sound of the two letters is not the same.
I suppose that the bottom line is that it would never hurt to search with both letters as well as variants like Budzyński.

Although it is true, as Gilberto wrote, that the English version of Wawrzyniec is Lawrence (variant spelling: Laurence), some Poles after immigrating to the USA chose to use English given names which sometimes had nothing in common with their actual Polish given name. A good example is Wojciech, which properly means Adalbert. For some reason unknown to me many Polish men named Wojciech called themselves George in English. There actually is a Polish version of George---Jerzy. So why did Wojciech become George? Again, it pays to consider variations---even variations with no apparent rhyme or reason.

I’m posting a list of Latin given names with the Polish and the English meanings of those names. Although I prepared the list specifically as a resource for those who are using Latin records, you may find it of some use for the Polish given names you encounter in your research.

Wishing you continued success in your research,

Dave

Re: Antoni Dudzinski Birthyear

Anonymous — Tue May 23, 2017 8:11 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:11 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

As best I can establish, Antoni Dudzinski (or was it Dudczak?) was born in 1875

He married in 1902, record nr. 2, in Boniewo, to Katarzyna Murawski.

Gilberto

Antoni Dudzinski Birthyear

JGwizdowski — Tue May 23, 2017 8:08 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:08 pm

As best I can establish, Antoni Dudzinski (or was it Dudczak?) was born in 1875

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Tue May 23, 2017 8:05 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 8:05 pm

That must be she! I've always had to estimate her birth year at 1888, based on census data, birth records, etc.

Bushia was sensitive about her age and the older she got, the later her birth year became. But as I move back in time...the earliest until this new discovery of yours, 1888 is where I have landed. I'm so excited by your find that I can barely contain my excitement. I really was getting close to admitting that I would never find anything about Helena's origins.

Now, you have given me a great gift! I must go see these two documents!

Dziękuję Ci bardzo

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

Anonymous — Tue May 23, 2017 7:54 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:54 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

BINGO!!

One of the last things Busia told my aunt...her youngest daughter, was that she was really a DUDCZAK! My Bushia's oldest brother, Antoni Dudzinski, had a large family when they came to the U.S. Somewhere along the way, and I have not figured this out yet, his sons adopted the name DUDCZAK.

Gilberto... you are genius and have brought this riddle of mine full circle.

From about 1926 onward, Bushia claimed her maiden name was Budzinski.

Between 1907 and 1926, her documents claimed Dudzinski. HerBrother, Antoni, went by Dudzinski, but later reverted to Dudczack. Her other brother Wincenty was born Dudzinski but adopted/changed to Budzinski after arriving in the U.S.

Bushia's name was Helena Dudzinski/Budzinski/Dudczak. How can I know which one to pick?

I am looking at my handwritten notes from 2002 when I questioned Aunt Lorraine about Bushia. Here is where I have a note "Budzinski/Dudczak"

This is getting VERY exciting...the hunt is on!!

Thank you, Gilberto!!!

Joe,
Helena Dudczak, born in Zglowiacka, in 1887, record 53. which year Antoni was born?

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Tue May 23, 2017 7:47 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:47 pm

BINGO!!

One of the last things Busia told my aunt...her youngest daughter, was that she was really a DUDCZAK! My Bushia's oldest brother, Antoni Dudzinski, had a large family when they came to the U.S. Somewhere along the way, and I have not figured this out yet, his sons adopted the name DUDCZAK.

Gilberto... you are genius and have brought this riddle of mine full circle.

From about 1926 onward, Bushia claimed her maiden name was Budzinski.

Between 1907 and 1926, her documents claimed Dudzinski. HerBrother, Antoni, went by Dudzinski, but later reverted to Dudczack. Her other brother Wincenty was born Dudzinski but adopted/changed to Budzinski after arriving in the U.S.

Bushia's name was Helena Dudzinski/Budzinski/Dudczak. How can I know which one to pick?

I am looking at my handwritten notes from 2002 when I questioned Aunt Lorraine about Bushia. Here is where I have a note "Budzinski/Dudczak"

This is getting VERY exciting...the hunt is on!!

Thank you, Gilberto!!!

D

Anonymous — Tue May 23, 2017 7:30 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 7:30 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

Yes! I just found Vincent's 1913 marriage record and he lists his parent's names as Laurence [sic] and Eva.

The curiosity now is, why/how did the name Dudzinski turn in to Budzinski. Perhaps it's not important.

Thank you again so very much!!!

Well, I am afraid things will get a bit more confusing. I have found a birth record for an Ewa Okonska, born in 1842, in Klobia (5 miles from Zglowiacka). record #45. This Ewa married in Klobia, in 1862, to Wawrzyniec........Dudczak!!!
(her parents are the same on both records, so it is the same Ewa). This Ewa's age matches with you Ewa.

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Tue May 23, 2017 6:55 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:55 pm

Yes! I just found Vincent's 1913 marriage record and he lists his parent's names as Laurence [sic] and Eva.

The curiosity now is, why/how did the name Dudzinski turn in to Budzinski. Perhaps it's not important.

Thank you again so very much!!!

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

Anonymous — Tue May 23, 2017 6:21 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Tue May 23, 2017 6:21 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

With your help, I found it! Thank you so much. It is late here, and this is my second attempt to respond, so I think it best for me to turn in, but not before letting you know how very much I appreciate your help!

Ewa Okoński is reference in several of Busia and Vincent's U.S. documents, so I am convinced this is the right Wincenty. The names Budzinski and Dudzinski intertwine throughout my research...Busia also had a brother Antoni Dudzinski.

As for the father, both Busia and Vincent reference their father's name as Ludwig. Is Wawrzyniec a common/convenient Americanization of Wawrzyniec?

I have more questions, but hesitate to impose on your generosity. I will make another donation to P.O. and wonder if I might contact you offline.

Meanwhile, both I and my Uncle Vincent thank you so very much!

Best,
Joe Gwizdowski

Joe,

Wawrzyniec is usually rendered as Lawrence.

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Mon May 22, 2017 10:32 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 10:32 pm

With your help, I found it! Thank you so much. It is late here, and this is my second attempt to respond, so I think it best for me to turn in, but not before letting you know how very much I appreciate your help!

Ewa Okoński is reference in several of Busia and Vincent's U.S. documents, so I am convinced this is the right Wincenty. The names Budzinski and Dudzinski intertwine throughout my research...Busia also had a brother Antoni Dudzinski.

As for the father, both Busia and Vincent reference their father's name as Ludwig. Is Wawrzyniec a common/convenient Americanization of Wawrzyniec?

I have more questions, but hesitate to impose on your generosity. I will make another donation to P.O. and wonder if I might contact you offline.

Meanwhile, both I and my Uncle Vincent thank you so very much!

Best,
Joe Gwizdowski

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

Anonymous — Mon May 22, 2017 8:31 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:31 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

Gilberto...I am astonished by your skill at this! Was the father's name Ludwig Dudzinski?

The Budzinski/Dudzinski names have been a constant source of confusion for me. When Bushia (as we called her) remarried after her 1st husband died, she said her maiden name was Helena Budzinski, and carried that name with her.

But on her first child's birth record, her name was Dudzinski. Uncle Vincent Budzinski was her brother, but she also had a brother Antoni Dudzinski.

To add to my confusion, I am hard pressed to figure out how to find "record is nr. 54 in image nr. 14, 1879" Even though you point me in the right direction, I am lost. Whoa is me!

I just can't figure out how to get from here to there! May I plead your indulgence a bit more?

This has been a 20 year quest...thank you!
Joe Gwizdowski

Joe,
Parents are Wawrzyniec Dudziński and Ewa Okoński. Recorded at June 25 / July 6 (gregorian and julian calendars).
Go to www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl
Type Zgłowiączka in Town Field (all names must use polish characters)
type 1879 in Date field (shows 71 results/images)
On the right side, under Options, select Show Thumbnail
Wait untill image nr. 14 is loaded then click on it.
Wait untill the image is fully loaded and then click on Launch Zooming
on the right side of the image click on the Download button
on the right side will appear Pobierz 1. click on it
type the words that will appear and then in Download register
once the download is registered, click in Download.
the image will be saved in your computer
now you can edit the image, saving - if you want - only your ancestral record.

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Mon May 22, 2017 8:13 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 8:13 pm

Gilberto...I am astonished by your skill at this! Was the father's name Ludwig Dudzinski?

The Budzinski/Dudzinski names have been a constant source of confusion for me. When Bushia (as we called her) remarried after her 1st husband died, she said her maiden name was Helena Budzinski, and carried that name with her.

But on her first child's birth record, her name was Dudzinski. Uncle Vincent Budzinski was her brother, but she also had a brother Antoni Dudzinski.

To add to my confusion, I am hard pressed to figure out how to find "record is nr. 54 in image nr. 14, 1879" Even though you point me in the right direction, I am lost. Whoa is me!

I just can't figure out how to get from here to there! May I plead your indulgence a bit more?

This has been a 20 year quest...thank you!
Joe Gwizdowski

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

Anonymous — Mon May 22, 2017 7:32 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 7:32 pm

dnowicki wrote:

JGwizdowski wrote:

Having recently discovered my G.Uncle Budzinski's Petition for Citizenship and his WWII draft registration, I find contradictory claims for his town of origin in Russia Poland.

As best as I can decipher, the Petition lists the town name as: Brzesckayawski.

20 years later, as best I can decipher, the name is: Sawelno

In attempting to interpret these names, I find myself running in circles and I'm hoping someone with greater familiarity with these names may offer some insight.

Thank you!

Hi,

On the petition the place name is Brześć Kujawski and on the WWII Registration the village is Sawilno. Brześć Kujawski is about 17 km or 11 miles from Sawilno and was one of the larger towns in powiat Włocławski so there is not real contradiction in the place names. The village of Sawilno belonged to the parish of Zgłowiączka. You are in luck in that the parish records are online at https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ The years given for his birth have not been indexed but you can browse the records. The only fly in the ointment is that the the year of his birth is not certain so you may have to browse several years of birth records. The records are in Russian but for that parish the names of the parents and the child also appear in Polish.

Wishing you success in your quest,

Dave

Joe and Dave,

Wincenty's birth record is nr. 54 in image nr. 14, 1879. Interesting,his father is presented as Dudzinski.

Gilberto

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Mon May 22, 2017 2:23 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Mon May 22, 2017 2:23 pm

Dave...I had to follow up and thank you again for the link you provided a couple of weeks ago.

While I have not had any luck so far with my original target "Budzinski," I made some remarkable strides on my Koscinski line, finding several birth records for my grandmother's siblings. It's taken me 20 years to get to this point! If only the internet and online availability of scanned records had been available back then!!

One question I have in using https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/ search techniques...
When I searched for "koscinski" I was returned 3 hits which, I believe so far, are another branch of Koscinski's.

However, when I searched for "Kościński" using the Polish characters, I was returned with 115 hits!

This got me thinking: what am I missing when searching other ancestors names by using the Americanized spelling? I wouldn't even know what to use for, say Budzinski, or Gwizdowski, etc.

Any additional insight into the naming conventions used in these searches are GREATLY appreciated!

Thanks Again!
Joe Gwizdowski

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Wed May 03, 2017 2:56 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:56 pm

Dave... thank you so very much! This is great information for me to move forward on. Thank you!

Re: Place names in Polish Russia

dnowicki — Wed May 03, 2017 2:11 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 2:11 pm

JGwizdowski wrote:

Place names in Polish Russia

JGwizdowski — Wed May 03, 2017 12:36 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Wed May 03, 2017 12:36 pm

Having recently discovered my G.Uncle Budzinski's Petition for Citizenship and his WWII draft registration, I find contradictory claims for his town of origin in Russia Poland.

As best as I can decipher, the Petition lists the town name as: Brzesckayawski.

20 years later, as best I can decipher, the name is: Sawelno

In attempting to interpret these names, I find myself running in circles and I'm hoping someone with greater familiarity with these names may offer some insight.

Thank you!