PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Record book index consfusion

JGwizdowski — Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:52 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 5:52 pm

Having been inspired by Cynthia's discovery of my grandfather Edward's birth record from 1884, I felt empowered to seek out his brother, Alexander, born 1881.

I make no attempt to hide the fact that these handwritten Russian records fill me with confusion and fear. But when I went to the index list of births in the 1881 Włocławek book, I found a hand printed - in BLUE INK - listing in what appears more English than Russian Language for "
Zecman Alexander 131/1887"

I went to the 1887 book, record 131, and there was my g.uncle's birth record. I will have to seek out Marcel's help in getting a translation and determining if the date within the record is actually 1887, or is it 1881 and somehow mis-filed in the 1887 book and later corrected? Is this sort of thing not uncommon?

Anyway, I thought I'd relate this story in the event it might help others in the future.

Thank you!
Joe

Re: Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

JGwizdowski — Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:56 am

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Fri Jun 09, 2017 11:56 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

You are very welcome! I am happy to help.

If you would like some research tips I have learned when working with the parish books and with Russian script, just email me via PO. There are definitely more siblings to be found. I saw a record for Helena's brother, Kazimierz.

Best,
Cynthia

Cynthia...for some reason my email sent through PO get's hung up somewhere. I've had this trouble with a couple others.

I assume you've not received anything from me and I'm at a loss to understand why they aren't getting through.

Joe
jgwizdowski@gmail.com

Re: Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

mcdonald0517 — Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:53 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:53 pm

You are very welcome! I am happy to help.

If you would like some research tips I have learned when working with the parish books and with Russian script, just email me via PO. There are definitely more siblings to be found. I saw a record for Helena's brother, Kazimierz.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

JGwizdowski — Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:34 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:34 pm

mcdonald0517 wrote:

And, here is a birth record that I am fairly certain is your grandfather, Edward. This parish book did not include the Polish translation of the names after the Russian, so I had to go by an educated guess based on the date you provided. But my slight familiarity with the Russian alphabet leads me to believe this is his birth record. Perhaps Marcelproust can verify it for you.

the image is attached. Oh, and sorry about the black banner. That is just how it downloads from the archive....

Here is the link to the parish book, it is record #151
https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.city=W%25C5%2582oc%25C5%2582awek&query.page=4&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=false&query.sortMode=DEFAULT&modal=258701442&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query

I searched for their marriage record in both Włocławek and Zgłowiączka, but could not find it. Because Helena was born in 1887, their marriage would be at the earliest 1904-5 (she would be 17 and 18 respectively) and more likely around 1907 (she would be 20). Are you sure they married in Poland? Is it possible they married here in the U.S.?

All the best,
Cynthia

Cynthia!
I am so very grateful. I would never had thought this possible but...you did it with such skill! Even with you leading me right to "the trough," I still have a very difficult time but, eventually, I do think I can infer a couple critical names like Setzmann and Marie, but I never would have found this without your assistance!

Edward arrived in America on April 25, 1905 and Helena followed in 1906. On his arrival listing he claims he he is married and will be joining his "half brother" A. Ducsak. I am assuming he meant brother-in-law. There is a chance they were not actually married. They indicate that they are on their first born's New York birth certificate in 1907, but there is a marriage license from Michigan in 1915. I always presumed this was for naturalization purposes...but perhaps grandfather simply wanted to make an honest woman of my grandmother?

I will ask Marcel for a proper translation and will now seek Edward's brother. I really want to figure how to do this myself, but if I get stuck, I hope I can impose on you again! I am thrilled by this find!

Thank you so very much!
Best,
Joe

Re: Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

mcdonald0517 — Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:11 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:11 pm

And, here is a birth record that I am fairly certain is your grandfather, Edward. This parish book did not include the Polish translation of the names after the Russian, so I had to go by an educated guess based on the date you provided. But my slight familiarity with the Russian alphabet leads me to believe this is his birth record. Perhaps Marcelproust can verify it for you.

the image is attached. Oh, and sorry about the black banner. That is just how it downloads from the archive....

Here is the link to the parish book, it is record #151
https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.city=W%25C5%2582oc%25C5%2582awek&query.page=4&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=false&query.sortMode=DEFAULT&modal=258701442&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query

I searched for their marriage record in both Włocławek and Zgłowiączka, but could not find it. Because Helena was born in 1887, their marriage would be at the earliest 1904-5 (she would be 17 and 18 respectively) and more likely around 1907 (she would be 20). Are you sure they married in Poland? Is it possible they married here in the U.S.?

All the best,
Cynthia

Re: Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

mcdonald0517 — Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:03 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 9:03 pm

Hi Joe,

I found your grandmother's birth record. It is in 1887 and is record # 53 on the page. Here is the link:
https://genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.city=Zg%25C5%2582owi%25C4%2585czka&query.page=5&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=false&query.sortMode=DEFAULT&modal=253440347&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query

I am also attaching the individual image.

Best,
Cynthia

Seeking Setzmann, Włocławek

JGwizdowski — Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:41 pm

Author: JGwizdowski

Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2017 8:41 pm

My maternal grandfather, Edward Setzmann, remains the last enigma. He was born in Włocławek 26 DEC 1884. Father, Wojciech and mother Marie Baronowski. He married my grandmother, Helena Dudczak of Zgłowiączka, sometime before he came to the U.S. in April 1905.

I have been searching for birth records in Włocławek, and marriage records in Zgłowiączka from 1904 through early 1905. To be honest, I very well may have looked right at a record and not recognized it. I am having a terrible time with the Russian handwriting.

The Setzmann name appears to be uncommon in Poland and the family lore is that Edward’s family, at some prior point, were German migrants into Poland and that his father, Wojciech, was a brewer which would be supported by Edwards listed trade for his first 10 years in America: a cooper.

Edward also had a brother Alexander was born 12 Dec 1881 and listed his birthplace as Woclawow, which I’ve always assumed to be Włocławek.

I’m a bit stymied at this point and would appreciate any suggestions and assistance in going forward.

Thank you!
Joe