PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Family of Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:33 pm

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:33 pm

Sophia
Yes I concur that no doubt it's the same family and yes I have two more places to visit. It's been a great day. Can't wait to get there. Thanks again.

Joe

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:25 pm

Hi Joe,
I spent some time looking at the translations Marcel provided of the church records. I can only conclude that this is one family. Jan Tyrolski and Maryanna Modzelewska (whose mother's maiden name was Wiechowska) lived in Susk and married in the church in Rzekun in 1894. While still in Susk, your grandfather Bronislaw was born (1895), as well as Bronislaw's twin sisters Bronislawa and Stefania (born 1900). After that, the family moved to Dzierzbia and three more children were born, Aleksander (1904), Zofia (1907) and Wanda (1909). Wanda died in 1910. In some cases, where they were recording Maryanna's maiden name, they got it wrong and recorded Wiechowska instead of Modzelewska. I can not think of any other way for the records to make sense. And now you have two more places to add to your list of places - - the birth place of Jan Tyrolski was Troszyn, and the birth place of Maryanna Modzelewska was Czerwin, according to their marriage record.
This is a big step forward.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:20 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 9:20 am

Don't worry, Joe. When I clicked on the photo to open it on my screen, it re-oriented correctly.
Lovely picture!

Picture

Joseph Torolski — Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:51 am

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:51 am

Sorry the wedding picture posted side ways. Tried three time and each time it was the same.

Wedding Picture of Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:48 am

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2017 8:48 am

Attached is the weeding picture of My DziaDzia Bronislaw Turolski and my Busia Busia Mary Ptak. Can anyone recognize the uniform my DziaDzia has on. Some of my family think it may be Russian.

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:57 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sat Jul 01, 2017 11:57 am

Hi Joseph,
I decided to go ahead and ask Marcelproust on the Russian Records Translation 2 thread to look at the records and try to determine if it is one family or two.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:59 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 4:59 pm

Hi Joseph,

OK, we need to take a breath here. I wonder if there are two couples named Jan and Marianna Torolski/Turolski/Tyrolski.

Here is the thing - - the Wanda Turolska who is baptized in 1909 in Poryte Parish, has a mother named Marianna Modzelewska. The Wanda Turolska who dies in 1910 in Poryte Parish, has a mother named Marianna Wiechowska. So this Wanda #2 and the Bronislaw that I mentioned earlier today, baptized in Rzekun and whose mother was Marianna Wichowska, are surely one family. The other kids (Wanda #1, Zofia, Aleksander, Bronislawa and Stefania) whose mother is Marianna Modzelewska may be another family. You really need translations in order to tease these two families apart, I think.

Best,
Sophia

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:29 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:29 pm

And now for a real treat: Bronislaw had twin sisters, Bronislawa and Stefania, baptized in 1900 in the parish in Rzekun. Parents are Jan Tyrolski and Maryanna Modzelewska. You will see them here as entries 33 and 34.
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0709d&sy=3015&kt=1&plik=031-034.jpg#zoom=1&x=1915&y=192

Best,
Sophia

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:25 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:25 am

Hi Joseph and Tom,
Here is a birth record from Rzekun, 1895, for Bronislaw Torolski. Father's name is Jan Torolski. Mother's name surprises me, though: Maryanna Wichowska. Any thoughts?
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0709d&sy=3005&kt=5&plik=223-226.jpg#zoom=1&x=700&y=168
It is record #223.
Best,
Sophia

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

PabianAus — Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:42 am

Author: PabianAus

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 7:42 am

My very basic Russian indicates that Jan was 27 years old, and Marianna was 18 years old.

Parish records for Rzekuń are held in the Archdiocese Archives in Łomza, for the following years:
Baptisms from 1801. Marriages from 1758. Deaths from 1760.

Tom

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:16 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:16 am

Found them!
Your Jan Tyrolski and Marianna Modzelewska married in the parish of Rzekun (you can find it on a map near Ostroleka) in 1894. The image is here:
http://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=6&zs=0709d&sy=4000&kt=9&plik=42-43.jpg#zoom=1&x=586&y=641
I would recommend that you ask for a translation of this on the Russian Records Translation 2 thread here on the forum. The indexer has shown Jan Tyrolski's parents as Aleksander Tyrolski and Jozefa Kadlubowska, and Marianna Modzelewska's parents as Adam Modzelewski and Anna Wiechowska. A translation will confirm that, and give you added info.
To answer your other question, what you are calling a birth record is what I am calling a baptism record. Since they are church records, and the church's interest was in recording baptisms, that is what I always call it. In particular places at particular times (described far more eloquently by Dave here on the Latin Translations thread) the church was also the official record keeper for the government and therefore the record also served as a civil birth record.
Best,
Sophia

Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:21 pm

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:21 pm

Thanks Again - How do you get to Baptismal records. Genetka has birth, marriages and death records but unless I'm missing something I have not found baptismal records. Then again I'm relatively new at this.

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 12:10 pm

P.S. I meant to mention that on Aleksander's baptism entry, his mother's name was first given as another name but then corrected to Maryanna Modzelewska. A simple error that was corrected, I suppose.

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:51 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 11:51 am

Hi Joseph,
I looked at the church books from which the index at geneteka is derived. I do not see your Bronislaw in 1894 or 1895. I also looked a few years earlier and a few years later and do not see him. Nor do I see a marriage record for his parents Jan and Marianna. It makes me wonder if they started their family elsewhere. I think it would be useful for you to post the images of the 3 baptism records (Aleksander, Zofia and Wanda) on the Russian Records Translation thread of this forum and see if there are clues there. One thing I wonder is what Jan's and Maryanna's ages were because there is quite a gap between 1894-5 and when the other 3 kids were born.
More later when I can,
Sophia

Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:03 am

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Wed Jun 28, 2017 7:03 am

Hi Everyone

Sophia thank your for your research and information you provided on the family of Bronislaw Turolski.
Based on your information I located the record for Aleksander Tyrolski which I believe is my Grandfather's brother. I also believe Wanda (born 1909) and Zofia (born 1907) are his sisters. With Wanda dying in 1910. Also the information provided on Jan Turolski/Tyrolski makes sense since it appears he travelled to the United States on more than one occasion. The city of Olsztyn, Poland is in the same area of Lomza, Dzierzbia. Any additional information you may find would be appreciated. We will be arriving in Poland on August 17 and each little piece of information helps.

Dziekuje

Joe Torolski

Re: Search for Bronislaw Turolski & Family

Sophia — Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:03 pm

Hi Joseph,
It's wonderful that you will be going to Poland! It is a great way to connect with your roots.
I am following on the very useful info that Gilberto "Magroski49" and Diane "Looking For Clues" already posted here. There are several records of births in your family in the Poryte parish which the Torolski family from Dzierzbia attended. Take a look at the spelling variety:
Aleksander Tyrolski, born in 1904
Zofia Torolska, born in 1907
Wanda Turolska, born in 1909
All three of them have a father Jan, and a mother Marianna Modzelewska. So, just as "Czerbia" turned out to be Dzierzbia, Torolski/Turolski/Tyrolski are likely to be the same family. Would you like for me to post images of those records here?
I have tried looking for your Bronislaw in 1895 and 1894, without success as yet, but I will try searching a bit more.
I also found what I think is your Jan, on one of his return trips to Poland. It is from the incoming passenger lists to the UK, and there is a man indexed as "Jar Tyrolski" arriving in Southampton from New York City on 14 April 1908. He was born in 1870, was a subject of Russia, and had a through ticket in his possession to get to Allenstein (that is Olsztyn, Poland, today, but it was formerly in East Prussia).
I am still trying to make sense of the connection your Bronislaw would have had with Gerlachsdorf (now Zgoda, as you said).
Stay tuned,
Sophia

Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:42 pm

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Mon Jun 26, 2017 2:42 pm

Hi I'm back again for the first time in a long time. MY wife and I have had surgeries and health problems with family members. First my wife and I are headed to Poland on August 16th and will be there to August 31st. We will go to our Grandfather's towns and we hope to find out more information of there past.. My Grandfather's past in still somewhat of a mystery. His immigration papers say that he was born in Lomza Dzierzbia, his World War I draft registration says he was born in Lomza and his World War II draft registration says he was born in Osieki. There is an Osieki due north of Dzierzbia on the northern border. My grandfather further stated that his last residence before coming to the USA was Gerlachsdorf which is now Zgoda. This is also on the border west of Osieki. Anyway I simply cannot find any birth records for him. In addition I still cannot locate marriage, death or birth records for his parents Jan or Marianna Modzelewska. i've checked everything I know how to check.

My Grandfather Bronislaw Turolski states his father Jan was in the USA when he arrived in the USA but I can find no record of his visit and/or immigration. However his father it appears to have come to the USA in 1914. He then shows up on a document I just found Saturday. He appears on my Grandfather's 1920 Census Records as being 50 years and residing with my grandfather. After that he disappears forever maybe back to Poland. Maybe he went back to Poland since no immigration records can be found for his wife or any Children. When Jan Turuolski came to the US he says he's from Wojsiechow, Russia. There are many of cities named Wojsiechow in Poland. I checked all Polish provinces on Geneteka with no success.

Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Sorry if I confused anyone.

Re: Bronislaw Torolski

Joseph Torolski — Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2017 3:07 pm

Magroski49 wrote:

Joseph Torolski wrote:

Thank you for providing the draft,registration. This is the first time I seen a draft registration for,World War II. I received the Lomza Information from his World War I registration in 1917. That listed Lomza and his birthdate of September 8, 1894. Most records I have list tha birthdate including the information from when he entered the United States at Ellis Island on September 24, 1912.

In www.stevemorse.org he stated his father's name was Jan and was livingi in Michigan (I could not read the name of the place). He declared he was born in Czerbia (second page of the manifest). His mother was Maryanna and listed as Czerbia, Lomza.

Gilberto

Re: Bronislaw Turolski

looking for clues — Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Author: looking for clues

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:53 pm

Joseph, don't know if I'm missing part of your last message. I just see my message quoted back without comment?

Re: Bronislaw Turolski

Joseph Torolski — Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:01 pm

Author: Joseph Torolski

Posted: Sat Mar 25, 2017 7:01 pm

looking for clues wrote:

To clarify, I am assuming that the Trovalski spelling was an error in the record or the indexing of the record. English speaking clerks with no knowledge of Polish may not have understood the pronounced name correctly and/or may not have read the handwriting correctly. Does the date of marriage look right?

Joseph, assuming you also saw Gilberto's message and my first message too?