PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:18 am

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 1:18 am

Thank you so so much Elzbieta! So excited and happy to finally have that brick wall cracked! I have a lot of adding to my tree to do now!

Antoni Maluchnik death record from 1916

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:12 am

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:12 am

It is on the page _026_zg.JPG , I am attaching it.

Zembrzus Nr 2
Dzialo sie w Janowie dnia 16 stycznia 1916, 4 pm. Stawili sie Walenty Borkowski, 50 lat, i Wladyslaw Motkowski 30 lat, godpodarze w Zembrzusie zamieszkali, i oswiadczyli, ze dnia wczorajszego 8 pm, umarl we wsi Zembrzus Antoni Maluchnik, wyrobnik 70 lat majacy, syn niegdy Pawla i Jozefy malzonkow Maluchnikow, urodzony w Wolce, w Zembrzusie zamieszkaly, ostawil po sobie zone Karoline z Napalowskich.

DATE-of-ACT: 16 Jan 1916, 4 pm
WITNESSES: Walenty Borkowski, 50 y, and Wladyslaw Motkowski 30 y, farmers residing in Zembrzus
DEATH: 15 Jan 1916, 8 pm, in Zembrzus, Antoni Maluchnik, 70 y, son of the late Pawel and Jozefa spouses Maluchnik, born in Wolka, residing in Zembrzus, leaving behind his wife Karolina nee Napalowska.

==
It is your Maluchnik!

==
M:07 Jul 1846___Pawel + Jozefa Pawel 35 y, Jozefa 22 y
B:1847?________Antoni______D:15 Jan 1916, 70 y
B:1849_________Marianna___D:25 Apr 1851, 2 y
B:14 Mar 1852__Józefa______D:06 Jan 1853, 1 y
B:21 Dec 1853__Adam_______D:19 Dec 1869, 15 y
B:13 Mar 1857__Franciszek
==

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:30 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:30 pm

http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,235129,2

Any chance for a translation? To rule out or confirm if is mine. There is writing on the side too. Unfortunately cannot make out any names. It should be the number 2 one, according to http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=D&w=14wm&rid=D&search_lastname=maluchnik&search_name=anton&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1906&to_date= index

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 6:25 pm

Pabian, thank you! I'll have to see if I can find and have Anton's death cert translated then, since he died 1916 it should be there! May finally be able to confirm if it's mine

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

PabianAus — Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Author: PabianAus

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:56 pm

Lyn1982

Your Karolina’s death record can be found at: http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,235118,59

Records from 1914-1936 can be found at: http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,list,235048,1

All the best
Tom

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:44 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:44 pm

I decided to check Mazowieki and Warsawizo-Mazowieki all Anton Maluchnik's born between 1840-1860 (very wide range) and see which ones I can rule out for sure as being mine.

1845 5 Antoni Maluchnik Jan Agnieszka Czernice Borowe He died the same year, not mine

1847 147 Antoni Maluchnik Wawrzyniec Elżbieta Lewandowska Krzynowłoga Wielka Gadomiec (he died the next year, not mine)

1849 1 Antoni Maluchnik Tomasz Marianna Zakrzewska Krzynowłoga Mała Kaki Mroczki (he died the same year, not mine)

1856 69 Antoni Maluchnik Augustyn Marianna Wiewiórska Krzynowłoga Wielka Krzynowłoga Wielka

1858 31 Antoni Maluchnik Tomasz Marianna Mierzejewska Krzynowłoga Mała Romany Sebory

Cannot find death or marriage records for the last two, so cannot rule those out either, tho I do still think Pawel Maluchnik is more likely the right one, based off all the other evidence I've posted.

Hopefully Pabian will come along and explain how he got Karolina's death record. I'd love to see the 1916 one for Anton to see if it could be mine.

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:20 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:20 pm

Also, The only Anton Maluchnik born between 1848-1852 is ruled out as being mine as they died the very same year.

Re: Olsztyn archives:Maluchnik born between 1846-1856 (1871)

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:06 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 5:06 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Lyn1982 wrote:

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Lyn1982 wrote:

[quote="Elzbieta Porteneuve]

EDITED This Antoni to be checked - if he died in Poland, and if parents are Paweł and Józefa Brzezna, then he is not your Antoni:
1916 2 Antoni Maluchnik Paweł Józefa Janowo Zembrzus [Miejsce przechowywania ksiąg: Urząd Stanu Cywilnego ] [Indeks dodał: Izabela_Czaplicka]

Best,
Elzbieta

Lyn1982 wrote:

I'm confused. Why not? My Anton didn't immigrate far as I know. I mean the Senior Anton. Sorry, guess it gets confusing. He also had a son Anton whom may be my ancestor (or it may be Stanislaw as I explained above).

That is my misunderstanding, I thought that Antoni Maluchnik son of Pawel, probably born 1856, emigrated to the US.
It would be good to see this record from 1916.

We know that Pawel Maluchnik, died /2/14/ Aug 1856, the year of birth of Antoni.

Best,
Elzbieta

Yes,
1857 21 Franciszek Maluchnik Paweł Józefa Brzyzna Janowo Wólka Zdziwujska [Miejsce przechowywania ksiąg: Archiwum Państwowe w Olsztynie 10-521 Olsztyn, ul. Partyzantów 18] [Indeks dodał: gosiagosia2 Weryfikował: beatabistram]

Quote:

The birth record of baby Franciszek contains the DEATH record of his father Pawel.
1857 21 Franciszek Maluchnik Paweł Józefa Brzyzna Janowo Wólka Zdziwujska
DATE-of-BIRTH-Franciszek: /1/13/ March 1857, son of the late Pawel Maluchnik, died /2/14/ Aug 1856 , 50 y, and Jozefa nee Brzyzna 30 y.

Aw ok, Thanks. Sorry, missed that before, that it was from the birth record.

One thing that I find odd is if Anton has to be born in 1856, I'm not 100% sure the age would be right. This is what I have from childrens birth records:

Vital records of birth Jan Maluchnik ,March 17 1888,father Antoni 40 years and mother Karolina nee Napałowska ,28 years ,village of Zembrzus (mean Anton's aprox year of birth is 1848)

Mary Maluchnik's birth: It did happen in posada Janowo, /28 October/9 November/ 1890 year, 1 pm. Appeared in Antoni Maluchnik, workman, 40 years, residing in the village Zembrzus (aprox year of birth 1850)

Jozefa Maluchnik's birth April /3/15/ 1895 year, 1 pm. Appeared in Antoni Maluchnik, carpenter, 45 years, (Anton's aprox year of birth 1850)

Joseph Maluchnik's birth: SUMMARY: DATE-of-ACT: /12/24/ - 24 November 1898, 1 pm, in Janowo FATHER: Antoni Maluchnik, carpenter, 53 years, (so Anton's aprox year of birth is 1845 way diff here).

Franciszek is born February 6/19, 1903 at 7 a.m. Father: Antoni Maluchnik (Anton Maljukhnik), 52 yo (somehow Antoni got younger 5 years later lol) this puts his aprox year of birth as 1851)

And the two death records aprox age:

Janow on 26 July/7 August, 1886, at 8:00 PM. Appeared Anton Maluchnik, worker, age 38, (so Anton's date of birth is 1848) Could it be possible for Anton's birth year to be consistently off by 6 years?

But, if that Anton isn't mine, then where is mine? All the others have been ruled out because of age or widow.

Re: Olsztyn archives:Maluchnik born between 1846-1856 (1871)

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:52 pm

Lyn1982 wrote:

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Lyn1982 wrote:

Quote:

Re: Olsztyn archives:Maluchnik born between 1846-1856 (1871)

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:40 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:40 pm

Elzbieta Porteneuve wrote:

Lyn1982 wrote:

Pawel had son Frank in 1857. http://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=14wm&rid=B&search_lastname=maluchnik&search_name=pawel&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable= So I'll have to see if I had that translated before. (Edit this is one record I need translated) tho not sure it will help much. Just would be nice to make sure is nothing weird with the birth, like the child being born very late in the year)

Re: Olsztyn archives:Maluchnik born between 1846-1856 (1871)

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:21 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:21 pm

Lyn1982 wrote:

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:12 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 4:12 pm

Lyn1982 wrote:

Thank you for correct location for Rogu Elzbieta, is there anyway to find those records? Or for me to look manually in the indexes there for Anton and karolinas marriage record? Since it doesn't come up in any search

Lyn, I have no idea. Just spent some time trying to see Szczytno/Wielbark (not city, byt countryside near city) records in Olsztyn archives. It is in German - which would mean easier to understand than Cyrillic, but there is no index of names, so each time you have zillion of pages to browse with your eyes. I tried 1885 and 1887 (for two little boys, 7 y, and 9 y, record of death from 1886), but did not have a chance. I am absolutely not sure if I tried anything correct, I wanted see Olsztyn Civil Records.

I made an excel for Maluchnik Antoni, to help me. I can match with colors some records.

Best,
Elzbieta

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:40 pm

Thank you for correct location for Rogu Elzbieta, is there anyway to find those records? Or for me to look manually in the indexes there for Anton and karolinas marriage record? Since it doesn't come up in any search

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:17 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 3:17 pm

Regarding the manifests and my ancestors siblings putting wrong fathers down:

Jan (john frank( Maluchnik birth born Parish Janowo ,on -line in ,,Metryki" .Vital records of birth Jan Maluchnik ,March 17 1888,father Antoni 40 years and mother Karolina nee Napałowska ,28 years ,village of Zembrzus

I know that John Frank settled in chicago. He is heading to a father Josef on Sept 26, 1910 and his arrival date and his nat records with matching birthdate confirm it has to be him (actually the birthdate is near matching it has the day 1 off and year by 2, but pretty sure its him)

(Oddly enough theres 2 Jan Maluchnik's of simular age who settled in Chicago) the other one I traced back some but could not find relation to.

Nor have I been able to find the Josef Maluchnik Jan is heading to.

It's all so very odd, I also have my ancestors brother August Maluchnik (with a sister Alexandra) heading to father Frank Maluchnik on his manifest, and I can confirm that that is also the right manifest. My Anton and karolina have no daughter Alexandra Maluchnik but as I said above if Anton's parents are who I think they are that would mean that August and Alexandra were cousins. As Pawel and Jozefa did have a son Frank whom had a daughter Alexandra.

But, maybe August isn't my ancestors brother (I;ve found no birth for him), but then why in August's obit did he mention being survived by brother Stanislaw Maluchnik of New York and why in what I've confirmed via nat papers is my ancestor, is my Stanislaw heading to brother August Maluchnik? Has to be him.

This is just all so strange. Putting their fathers as Josef and Frank on the manifests is definitely giving false info, I don't understad why they would do that. But, those Jan and Frank are actual people (haven't found who the Josef is but they put an address for him on the manifest).

Here is the manifests in question.
John Frank Maluchniks https://www.libertyellisfoundation.org/passenger-details/czoxMjoiMTAxNDQwMDUwMDk0Ijs=/czo4OiJtYW5pZmVzdCI7

August Maluchnik (cannot find his online, so I'll upload what I've saved)

Don't have August's nat papers, but I know that ones mine, because my ancestor Stanislaw is heading to brother August in the same location where this August lived. It's a small town in pennsylania, so no chance it's not the same August (plus no other August Maluchnik settled there).

Also uploading John Franks page of nat papers. The birthdate closely matches the one confirmed as son of Anton and Karolina. Yet somehow he is heading to father Josef in his manifest.

I'm obviosuly related to the Pawel and Jozefa Maluchnik line somehow, since August is on boat with their son Franks daughter Alexandra. But, I cannot seem to tie in the Josef Maluchnik that John Frank is heading to in his manifest to their line. Trying to find that Josef didn't prove very fruitful either. I will note that I discovered many Maluchnik's in chicago that I traced back to a different Maluchnik branch. Those ones traced back to a Jan Maluchnik and Malgorzata Oleksik. Cannot seem to tie that into the Pawel Maluchnik line but it must tie in somehow.

Re: Olsztyn archives:Maluchnik born between 1846-1856 (1871)

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:27 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:27 pm

[quote="Elzbieta Porteneuve]

EDITED This Antoni to be checked - if he died in Poland, and if parents are Paweł and Józefa Brzezna, then he is not your Antoni:
1916 2 Antoni Maluchnik Paweł Józefa Janowo Zembrzus [Miejsce przechowywania ksiąg: Urząd Stanu Cywilnego ] [Indeks dodał: Izabela_Czaplicka]

Best,
Elzbieta[/quote]

I'm confused. Why not? My Anton didn't immigrate far as I know. I mean the Senior Anton. Sorry, guess it gets confusing. He also had a son Anton whom may be my ancestor (or it may be Stanislaw as I explained above).

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:09 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:09 pm

these are all the (somewhat) confirmed children I have for Antoni and Karolina and how I confirmed them:

Franciszek Maluchnik 1877–1886 - (death record confirmation)
Jan Maluchnik 1879–1886 (death record confirmation)
Ludwig Maluchnik 1880– (based off his marriage record)
august Maluchnik 1881–1948 (no records, but confirmed via fact sister Mary Maluchnik mentions him as her brother in her passenger manifest and her birthdate matches birthdate of a record for a child they had)
anthony maluchnik 1885–1926 (no records, assumption based off fact he married Stanislaw's wife before he did)
John Frank Maluchnik 1888–1948 (birth record)
maryanna Maluchnik 1890–1968 (birth record)
Stanley L. Maluchnik 1892–1983 (marriage record (father Anton mother Karolina) and also assumption based off passenger manifest that I have confirmed via nat papers is him where he is heading to brother August in same town that August settled in)
Jozefa Maluchnik 1895–1968 (birth record)
Joseph Maluchnik 1898– (birth record)
Franciszek Maluchnik 1903– (birth record)

Truthfully, I don't know whether I decend from Anthony or Stanislaw because their wife Margaret was married to both and my ancestor (who was a twin) was born 9 months and 2 weeks after Anthony died but before she married Stanislaw. I've assumed this whole time that Anthony and Stanislaw were brothers, but maybe they are cousins instead? I cannot find either of their births, so have had to piece together everything with passenger manifests and other stuff. However, a sinking thought is, since August and John Frank both lied on their passenge manifests about who their fathers were (August says he is heading to father Frank and John Frank says he is heading to father Josef Maluchnik) then whats to say my ancestors didn't lie about their relations on their manifests? However Stanislaw's marriage record does say his parents were Anton Maluchnik and Karolina (but mothers surname is very mispelled as Krosky or such)

Geography:

Elzbieta Porteneuve — Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:17 pm

Author: Elzbieta Porteneuve

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 1:17 pm

I checked whatever death record in Cyrillic, written "Rog parish Najdenburg Prussian Kingdom" -- should be Róg, Wielbark, Oltersburg (Szczytno), the name Oltersburg is well written, no mistake, alternate name of Szczytno.

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:58 pm

Zembrus and that Neu Bemburg are very far away, so it seems unlikely to be the right location. https://www.google.com/maps/dir/Zembrzus-Mokry+Grunt,+Poland/55546+Neu-Bamberg,+Germany/@50.3552514,6.8289266,4.96z/data=!4m13!4m12!1m5!1m1!1s0x471dc171ee34534b:0xed5c2a75fafe7cc0!2m2!1d20.6451813!2d53.2790272!1m5!1m1!1s0x47bdf667b99a5d23:0x422d4d510dad110!2m2!1d7.9242271!2d49.7989521

11 hour drive away! I know sometimes people traveled in those days, but that seems really odd to me. So there must be a Neu Bamburg parish elsewhere.

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:54 pm

Thank you Elzbieta . I actually had the two eldest known children of Anton and Karolina death records translated on here before. Jan and Franzicek Maluchnik born aprox 1877 and 1879. A kind person on here translated them before for me as

"Completed in posad [suburb] of Janow on 26 July/7 August, 1886, at 8:00 PM. Appeared Anton Maluchnik, worker, age 38, father of the deceased, and Franciszek Waslewski, householder, age 23, both residing in the village of Zembrzus and declared that on 23 July/4 August of the current year at 6:00 PM died in the village of Zembrzus FRANCISZEK MALUCHNIK, age 9 years, son of Anton and Karolina nee Napalowska Maluchnik, legal marriage, born in the village of Rogu [?], Kingdom of Prussia, Neu Bemburg parish and residing with is parents, laborers, in the village of Zembrzus. Death of Franciszek Maluchnik confirmed by eyewitnesses. This act read aloud to the illiterate and signed only by me. Rector of Janow parish, registrar of civil acts. Fr. Jozef Grandyszewski."

and
"Completed in posad [suburb] Janow on 23 July/4 August, 1886, at 10:00 AM. Appeared Anton Maluchnik, worker, age 38, father of the deceased, and Konstanty Lowicki, worker, age 30, both residing in the village of Zembrzus, and declared that yesterday at 3:00 AM died in the village of Zembrzus JAN MALUCHNIK, age 7 years, son of Anton and Karolina nee Napalowska Maluchnik, legal marriage, born in the village of Rogu [?], Kingdom of Prussia, Neu Bemburg [?] parish, and residing with is parents, laborers, in the village of Zembrzus. Death of Jan Maluchnik verified by eyewitnesses. This act read to the illiterate witnesses and signed only by me. Rector of Janow parish, registrar of civil acts. Fr. Jozef Grandyszewski."

So these records put Anton's aprox birth date as 1848. Definitely doesn't seem too consistent, all the records of him. I also have most (if not all) the childrens birth records translated. I'll see if I can find those and copy them here, tho not sure if it will help much.

Where is Neu bemburg parish? Would that have meant they were born here? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neu-Bamberg But, someone before told me there were no Naplowski's in that area, so I dunno. They have been researching Naplowski surname for many years and they told me "I don't think this town will fit because if the Name Napolowski is what I think it is than it comes from the east such as Belarus or Lithuania or Latvia"

Re: Death Records, Janowo & some questions

Lyn1982 — Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Author: Lyn1982

Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 12:52 pm

Wow, thank you Pabian! How did you get the attached copy of her death? When I looked it wasn't online and they only had up to 1913 online.

That's really unfortunate though that they didn't know her maiden name or anything else. I had hoped when I finally found her death record that it might tell her parents names. As finding her and Anton's marriage record has eluded me.

Thank you for all the additional info as well. I'll try to not assume this, my ancestors according to their ship manifests are connected to several other maluchnik families and unfortunately I cannot determine the relationship of the two possibily related Maluchnik branches to each other