PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

EANWhitson — Fri May 10, 2019 8:11 pm

Author: EANWhitson

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 8:11 pm

Thanks Dave!!

Re: Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

dnowicki — Fri May 10, 2019 6:05 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:05 pm

[quote="djablonka"]Thanks so much for your help!
I must say though that it is disappointing that there are no records prior to 1779. I had thought that since the area was Roman Catholic, there would be records back to at least 1000 AD or so...
Thanks again!
Dave Jablonka[/quote

Hi,

Here are some additional details regarding the keeping of sacramental records in 18th Century Poland and the relationship of such records to 19th Century civil records.

The mandate which obliged parish priests to keep sacramental records was imposed by the Council of Trent during the session which ended in 1575. From that time forward parish priests were mandated to keep records of baptisms and of marriages. There was a lag time between the decree of 1575 and its implementation throughout Catholic Europe. By 1600 most local bishops had promulgated the decree and record keeping became mandatory. The recording of Christian burials, which obviously are not sacraments, was added during the first quarter of the 17th Century. Keeping records of Confirmations and First Communions is a much more recent development. Records of ordinations (Holy Orders) were kept by the chancery office of the diocese. Records of Confession and of what at the time was called Extreme Unction were not required.

Parishes in Poland followed the mandates of the Council of Trent. This means that in theory parish sacramental records should exist beginning in about the year 1600. These records were permanent and were not to be deliberately discarded or destroyed. Usually the original copy was kept in the parish and often another copy was sent to the diocesan archives. The climate in Poland was not friendly for the long term survival of manuscripts and old records often were degraded to the point of not being legible.
In one parish where my ancestors lived the records go back to the final quarter of the 17th Century. There are gaps in the records during the first two decades of the 18th Century. A later pastor explained that many records were no longer legible, but that he copied all those which he was able to read. However, in many parishes legible records from the early 18th Century survive.

Fast forward to 1808 and the Duchy of Warsaw. When after the treaties of Tilsit Napoleon created the Duchy from territories which had been seized by Prussia and Russia during the partitions he also introduced the keeping of civil vital records in what is known as the long paragraph style. But what about births and marriages and deaths prior to 1808? That is where the list which appears to be an index comes in. The list is a summary which the parish priests composed from the parish registers and then submitted to the civil authorities. Since the summaries were created from the actual parish registers the original records prior to 1808 did, and do still exist. I’ve been fortunate in that in most of the parishes of my ancestors both the summaries and the original records have been filmed and I was able to access both.

What are the practical consequences of this long explanation? In my opinion, the main consequence is that one should not give up too easily. Records earlier than 1808 usually exist as summaries or as copies in the state archives and many are online. They also often exist as full copies in diocesan archives, most of which are not usually available online. Many records of both categories have been filmed by Family Search and many are online, unless the contract does not allow. However, there are other possible locations for the records. The parish itself usually has the books in the parish archives but access is a problem. It would seem that the search for early records depends on how much physical effort one wishes to expend on the genealogy hobby.

It is past the time to get off this soapbox. To close I would propose for consideration the value of the film notes on records available on Family Search. The notes state where the records were filmed and therefore where the original manuscripts are housed. Often this info is important in doing research. Here are three examples of film notes. 1. Mikrofilm zrobiony z rękopisów w Archiwum Diecezjalne we Włocławku. 2. Mikrofilm zrobiony rękopisów w Archiwum Państwowe w Bydgoszczy. 3. Mikrofilm zrobiony z rękopisów w Kirchheim i w Archiwum Diecezjalne we Włocławku. The third example made it possible to see records up to 1940 since the fact that some records were filmed in Kirchheim meant that they were not bound by the 100 year Polish privacy rule.

With the hope that something of value may be found in the above,

Dave]

Re: Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

EANWhitson — Fri May 10, 2019 6:57 am

Author: EANWhitson

Posted: Fri May 10, 2019 6:57 am

Well, the Church didn't require the clerics to keep records before that. Some churches did, most didn't. You have to remember at that point in time, the parish priest knew his parishioners. There weren't a lot of them. For those that lived, he baptized them, watch them marry, sometimes watched them die. He may have grown up amongst them.

And once again, even though they may have written things down, surnames were new in the late 1700s and early 1800s in Poland. People had MANY children and the amount with names such as Jan, Marianna, Jozef, etc., is hard to tell from the other Jans, Mariannas and Jozefs unless you have surnames.

This is why when people say they are Polish and they have their genealogy back to the 1300s or something like that, I often don't believe them. MAYBE if their family was noble or MAYBE if their family actually came from other countries and then ended up in Poland. I have one and only one line like that that came from Bayern (border of now Germany and France) and can go back to the late 1500s only because that area had surnames.

If you have gotten your line back to the late 1700s in Poland, that's about how far you can expect to get.

Re: Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

djablonka — Thu May 09, 2019 7:53 pm

Author: djablonka

Posted: Thu May 09, 2019 7:53 pm

Thanks so much for your help!
I must say though that it is disappointing that there are no records prior to 1779. I had thought that since the area was Roman Catholic, there would be records back to at least 1000 AD or so...
Thanks again!
Dave Jablonka

Re: Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

EANWhitson — Wed May 08, 2019 10:02 pm

Author: EANWhitson

Posted: Wed May 08, 2019 10:02 pm

djablonka wrote:

I am researching the surname “Jablonka” and have records back to the early 1800s. To get more records further back in time, I believe I need to contact the Jasienica Parish Church as that was where my ancestors were baptized. The Jablonka’s all seem to have resided in Nieskórz.

Do you know how I can contact the Parish of Jasienica and how I pay for their services?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dave Jablonka

So there are records here from 1826 on. http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,list,196947,1

There are also records here http://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,list,198596,1

Records 1779-1808 are really just in index type form. I've personally not found any corresponding records for those index/summary type. Some of the problem you run into that far back is IF there were records, even the churches don't have them any more, but also many of the ordinary people at that time didn't have surnames, so tracing them and their parents is pretty near impossible even if you found records.

Jasienica Parish (near Nieskorz) Contact Info

djablonka — Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm

Author: djablonka

Posted: Tue May 07, 2019 8:30 pm

I am researching the surname “Jablonka” and have records back to the early 1800s. To get more records further back in time, I believe I need to contact the Jasienica Parish Church as that was where my ancestors were baptized. The Jablonka’s all seem to have resided in Nieskórz.

Do you know how I can contact the Parish of Jasienica and how I pay for their services?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Dave Jablonka