PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

crumblebucket — Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:19 am

Author: crumblebucket

Posted: Tue Jun 11, 2019 4:19 am

Thanks again Natalia. I have the family in the link - Maciej & Jozefa are my husband's g/g.grandparents. I think I'll keep Marianna in the family & accept the Kwiecien! So sad that although the families were extensive, there were almost as many deaths as births amongst the children.
Leigh

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

Natalia — Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Author: Natalia

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 6:23 pm

Hi Leigh.
On Geneteka I found the record of marriage of Antoni Błazik and Aniela Kwietniowska (Nr 25, 1871). I think they are the same persons, the parents of Ludwik and Marianna, because in the records of Antoni’s brothers and sisters their surnames were written as Błaszkiewicz, Błazkiewicz, Błaźkiewicz and Błaszkowicz. link
All these surnames derive from names Błażek, Błazik or Błasik, diminutive forms of the male name Błażej.

Natalia

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

marcelproust — Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:53 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:53 pm

crumblebucket wrote:

Hi Sophia and Natalia

Thank you both so much for your explanations. I was being a bit cautious - even though I thought they were the same person. You are both very knowledgeable. I am actually familiar with the Russian alphabet and can pronounce it - just don't know what it means! And I certainly can't make much from the handwritten text, so your help has been invaluable.

Would either of you know the meaning/origins of the name Blaszkiewicz, or should I post a separate query?

Thanks again.
Leigh

this surname may come from the name: Błażej

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

crumblebucket — Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Author: crumblebucket

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 4:16 pm

Hi Sophia and Natalia

Thank you both so much for your explanations. I was being a bit cautious - even though I thought they were the same person. You are both very knowledgeable. I am actually familiar with the Russian alphabet and can pronounce it - just don't know what it means! And I certainly can't make much from the handwritten text, so your help has been invaluable.

Would either of you know the meaning/origins of the name Blaszkiewicz, or should I post a separate query?

Thanks again.
Leigh

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

Sophia — Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:39 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:39 pm

Natalia wrote:

I think that Aniela Kwiecień and Aniela Kwietniowska is the same person. She had the same husband and lived in the same village. In the XIX century in Polish acts often the same surname was written differently. The surname of that woman in the records that I found on Geneteka was written in different ways: Кветнiовская, Квецень, Квѣтневская, Квѣтнiовская, Квѣциньская, Квѣцень.

Until 1918 in the Russian alphabet there were two letters Е and Ѣ, which meant the same sound. For Russian words there were some rules, when to write E, when Ѣ, for example, the word “бѣлый” you need to write with Ѣ, but for Polish names and surnames there were no rules, and priests wrote it differently.

Natalia

Hi Natalia,
Thank you! This is a very useful explanation. I appreciate your work.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

Natalia — Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:26 pm

Author: Natalia

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 3:26 pm

I think that Aniela Kwiecień and Aniela Kwietniowska is the same person. She had the same husband and lived in the same village. In the XIX century in Polish acts often the same surname was written differently. The surname of that woman in the records that I found on Geneteka was written in different ways: Кветнiовская, Квецень, Квѣтневская, Квѣтнiовская, Квѣциньская, Квѣцень.

Until 1918 in the Russian alphabet there were two letters Е and Ѣ, which meant the same sound. For Russian words there were some rules, when to write E, when Ѣ, for example, the word “бѣлый” you need to write with Ѣ, but for Polish names and surnames there were no rules, and priests wrote it differently.

Natalia

Re: Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

Sophia — Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:33 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Jun 10, 2019 7:33 am

crumblebucket wrote:

Can anyone please advise whether Kwiecien is likely to be a variation of Kwietniowska? Many of the records I have found are for Aniela Kwietniowska, but there are also a few for Aniela Kwiecien who would appear to be the same person (same husband, parish etc) but I would like to be certain.

Also, what are the likely origins of the name Blaszkiewicz?

Many thanks.

Hi,

It is very tempting to say these two names are the same. It’s all about flowers, right? Kwiecien, which is Polish for the month of April, is derived from the word for flowers. Kwietniewski, Kwietnowski, Kwitniewski (rare) and many other surnames all have a root based on the word for flower, “kwiat.”

Still, I think you are right to be cautious.

The situation is of a Polish family with a Polish name, who lived in the Russian Partition in the 1880s and whose records were required to be written in Russian. The record writer had to listen to the name and decide how to write it in Russian, with the Cyrillic alphabet. Today, a translator has to look at that old record, “recover” the Polish name, and then put it into English text so that you can read it. Add to this the fact that the original is handwritten, and you have numerous opportunities for inconsistency. By contrast, if you were looking at 21st century records, written in Polish, and typed, where one record had the name Aniela Kwiecien and the other had the name Aniela Kwietniewska, you would say those were two different people.

Of the two translations that you had done for you on the Russian Records Translations thread, the name was translated for you as Kwiecien both times. Thankfully, Natalia has done a beautiful job of including the Russian text along with the English translation. I observed that she saw the name spelled slightly differently in the two records.

First, there is Квецень from the birth of Marianna Blaszkiewicz.

Second, there is Квѣцень from the death of baby Ludwik Blaszkiewicz. If you look at the handwritten page, you see that the name got carried from the end of one line to the beginning of the next, which might have added some difficulty to reading it. Perhaps not, for someone who is used to reading and translating Russian, I don’t know.

I would suggest providing Natalia with links to the other records your found where Aniela shows up, and asking her directly if she sees it as Kwiecien or if she sees it the same way the indexer on Geneteka saw it, and whether she would consider these forms to be the same name.

Best of luck in your research,
Sophia

Kwietniowska/Kwiecien

crumblebucket — Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:10 pm

Author: crumblebucket

Posted: Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:10 pm

Can anyone please advise whether Kwiecien is likely to be a variation of Kwietniowska? Many of the records I have found are for Aniela Kwietniowska, but there are also a few for Aniela Kwiecien who would appear to be the same person (same husband, parish etc) but I would like to be certain.

Also, what are the likely origins of the name Blaszkiewicz?

Many thanks.