PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Name change

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:11 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 7:11 pm

Hi Wally,

Understood. It is great to pay it forward. I haven't heard from her, so here is more information to give her.

Attached is a screen shot listing the births of Franciszek and Waleryia's children that were indexed for the Geneteka database. This just shows the ones indexed; looking at the gaps in dates, it seems there are more children that have not been indexed.

Also attached is the 1871 marriage record of Franciszek and Waleryia in Rypin (it is #35 on the page). I suggest your friend post that record to the Russian translation forum and request a translation. There may be small clues in the record.

These two pieces of information tell us that Franciszek and Waleryia were married in 1871 in Rypin and had their first child, Karol, in 1872 also in Rypin. Then there is a gap of several years before the next child, Wiktoria, is born in 1876 in Gorczenica, another village in Rypin county. I saw her birth record in the Torun online database.

Then there is a large 10 year gap between 1876 in Gorczenica and 1888 in Świedziebnia.

There was also another child, Walerya, who died in 1898 per the Geneteka database.

Here is a link to the Geneteka database so your friend can search herself. NOTE: Geneteka does not have scans for all the entries, but they do provide the index and location of the parish books:

http://www.geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=02kp&rid=B&search_lastname=Celebucki&search_name=Franciszek&search_lastname2=&search_name2=waleria&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=

Finally, here is the link to online parish books for Rypin, Gorczenica, and Świedziebnia.
https://www.genealogiawarchiwach.pl/#query.type=ALL&query.city=Rypin&query.suggestion=false&query.thumbnails=false&query.facet=true&query.asc=false&query.sortMode=PUBLICATION&personTree=false&goComments=false&searcher=big&query.query

All the best,
Cynthia

Celler

Wally1049 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Author: Wally1049

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 6:35 pm

Thank you for the information. While not a relative, I was helping some one that helped me in my research. She may have contacted you because I sent your post on to her. Get a little information , give a little information. She has been searching for 30 plus years . This is a real breakthrough for her.
Especially about how names were changed. The information you gave me about name changes will be forwarded to others having some of the same issues. Once again thank you

Re: Name change

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:34 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:34 pm

Hi again,

Here is another clue. I was curious if the James Celler from Strasburg was your ancestor. So, I used the Kartenmeister database to look up Strasburg and find its Polish correlate. Looks like it is the same man - the Polish correlate for Strasburg in the database is Brodnica! Check it out:

http://www.kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=21253

best,
Cynthia

Re: Name change

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:27 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 4:27 pm

Hi Wally,

I have been looking around on your behalf for any clues on Zigmunt Celebucki, aka, James Walter Celler.

So far, I have found no document that ties the two names together.

Possible documents that may be provide that connection are:

1. Passenger list
2. Naturalization declaration and/or application
3. Marriage license application (often has names of parents and place of birth)
4. Death certificate (if the person reporting the information has knowledge of parents names)

Here are places you can begin to search for some of these (assuming Zigmunt and James are the same person):

The 1920 census indicates James arrived in the US in 1893 and was naturalized in 1898. However, the 1930 census indicates he arrived in 1910 (I tend not to believe that because it doesn't line up with other documents). Also, there are indexes that show Nov 1907 for the dates of naturalization for a James W Celler. I suggest you search San Francisco naturalizations for: 1898 - 1907. For Naturalization records in San Francisco, California, check out this link. This will give you some idea as to where to go to make inquiries.
https://www.sfgenealogy.org/norcal/calnat.htm

I saw some documents for a James Celler enlisting in the US military in Philadelphia on 28 Dec 1892 for a five year stint. BTW, this enlistment record shows this James Cellar as being born in Strasburg, East Prussia (not sure if this is your ancestor or a different James Celler). Keep in mind that if that is your ancestor who served in the US military from 1892-1898, he may have been automatically naturalized as a result of his service. Not sure about that, but it is something to consider.

For Marriage license application, you need to contact either the city of San Francisco or the County of SFO Archives. The good news is, I found a clipping of a San Francisco newspaper that had the announcement of James and Ida's marriage license application. They applied for license on July 9, 1910, so it is safe to assume they married in July 1910.
attached is the image of the clip. Now you can contact the City and or county of SFO and ask them to search for their application. The application often has names of parents and place of birth.

It also seems you have the date of his death, so you can contact the county in which he died and request a search for his death certificate. If the person reporting his death has the information, his parents names and place of birth may be listed.

Hope this helps and happy searching,
Cynthia

Name changes

Wally1049 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:04 am

Author: Wally1049

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 11:04 am

Thank you both

Re: Name change

Sophia — Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:15 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 9:15 am

Wally1049 wrote:

How would a person change his given name for an abbreviated name
Example: Celebucki to Celler
And which name would he use to
Immigrate

Hi Wally,
Your best bet, when looking for an immigration document (ship's manifest) is to look for Celebucki.
There was not much reason for a person to change their name before that. They would have lived among people who knew the same language they did, and who had no trouble spelling or pronouncing a name like Celebucki. Most name changes that I have encountered were done some time after arriving in North America, and had to do with fitting in or reducing the irritation of other people not understanding your name. That is when a name like Celler would have been most helpful.
That's my two cents - - which, if you add to Cynthia's, brings you to a grand total of four cents!
Have you been having difficulty finding a ship manifest for a particular Celebucki ancestor?
Best,
Sophia

Re: Name change

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:41 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2020 1:41 am

Hi,

I can think of 2 ways.

1. During the great wave of immigrants (1900-1920) and prior to that time, there was no legal requirement for immigrants to have visas or identity papers. In essence, my understanding is that you could give whatever name you wanted when immigrating. Here is a link to a page about immigration in that era

https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/research/did-my-family-really-come-legally-todays-immigration-laws-created-a-new-reality

2. In the 1800s and early 1900s immigrants were often naturalized upon arrival or shortly thereafter. When naturalized, you were given the option of choosing another name if desired. I have seen naturalization documents with that option in my years of searching for my own ancestors.

That is my 2 cents. Perhaps others have more to offer.

Best,
Cynthia

Name change

Wally1049 — Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:18 pm

Author: Wally1049

Posted: Fri Jan 24, 2020 9:18 pm

How would a person change his given name for an abbreviated name
Example: Celebucki to Celler
And which name would he use to
Immigrate