PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

marcelproust — Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:12 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Tue Jul 07, 2020 12:12 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

So, I think I found the 1887 marriage record for Kazimierz Postawka and Anna Snarska - not sure because the surname looks a little different than the last record.

I am attaching it so perhaps Marcel can just look at the names to verify if it is their record or not. It is record #36 on the page - the last entry for 1887.

Because you are new to the forum, let me explain.... Generally, we are a community and help each other as volunteers. I am happy to help you with the research. I don't accept payment for my time, I volunteer my time. It is a hobby for me.

However, I do not do translations at all. As Marcel mentioned, he kindly did the translation of the record I found for you.
Some of the translators who volunteer do accept donations for their time and expertise. So, you can discuss that with Marcel.

Also, you can hire, if needed, a professional researcher from the Polish Origins staff to conduct research on your behalf. You may need to do that to find the missing parish books.

I hope I explained that properly. If not, I will let Polish Origins staff correct me.

Meanwhile here is the marriage record (I think).

Best,
Cynthia

Nr 36, Podstawka

Marriage date: 26th

When, where, who and after how many marriage banns: November 26th, 1887, in romancatholic parish church of Szata, celebrated by the local vicar priest Józef Lidejko, after 3 banns of marriage, dated: November 8th, 15th and 22nd.

Newlyweds and their social status, age and parish: dworianin of the county of Wiłkomierz, Kazimierz Podstawka, a young man, 33 years old and peasant of the volost of Szata Anna Snarska, a miss, 30 years old, both parishioners from the area of Towiany church; after the written statement of both parties about any obstacles to this marriage, and after not discovering them and after a newlyweds' statement on their mutual agreement to such relationship, which was expressed by external signs.

Newlyweds' parents and witnesses: son of:dworianie Sylwester and Aniela nee Proscewicz, legal spouses Podstawka and daughter of peasants, legal spouses: Adam Podstawka and Magdalena Podstawka nee Szymańska.

This marriage was solemny blesses in the face of the church, in the presence of the witnesses: Antoni Korgow, Michał Gongad?, Michał Podstawka and Konstanty Lepich.

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:07 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 6:07 pm

So, I think I found the 1887 marriage record for Kazimierz Postawka and Anna Snarska - not sure because the surname looks a little different than the last record.

I am attaching it so perhaps Marcel can just look at the names to verify if it is their record or not. It is record #36 on the page - the last entry for 1887.

Because you are new to the forum, let me explain.... Generally, we are a community and help each other as volunteers. I am happy to help you with the research. I don't accept payment for my time, I volunteer my time. It is a hobby for me.

However, I do not do translations at all. As Marcel mentioned, he kindly did the translation of the record I found for you.
Some of the translators who volunteer do accept donations for their time and expertise. So, you can discuss that with Marcel.

Also, you can hire, if needed, a professional researcher from the Polish Origins staff to conduct research on your behalf. You may need to do that to find the missing parish books.

I hope I explained that properly. If not, I will let Polish Origins staff correct me.

Meanwhile here is the marriage record (I think).

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Postawka

marcelproust — Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:19 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:19 pm

JoAnn Renken wrote:

Cynthia,
Wow and wow! Thank you very much. I am thrilled. It might just be that Stanislaw and Zophia are siblings since they share the father's name of Kazimierz. Tis document also gives a mother's name so I consider it a huge win! I see that someone also translated the document too and wonder if that was you. I am still learning my way around this site but I am very thankful for your hard work. I'm not sure how the payment works but I'll get it to you. And the other person if that is not you. Thanks so much!!!
Peace,
JoAnn

the translation was made by me, marcelproust

Postawka

JoAnn Renken — Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 pm

Author: JoAnn Renken

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:17 pm

Cynthia,
Wow and wow! Thank you very much. I am thrilled. It might just be that Stanislaw and Zophia are siblings since they share the father's name of Kazimierz. Tis document also gives a mother's name so I consider it a huge win! I see that someone also translated the document too and wonder if that was you. I am still learning my way around this site but I am very thankful for your hard work. I'm not sure how the payment works but I'll get it to you. And the other person if that is not you. Thanks so much!!!
Peace,
JoAnn

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 5:13 pm

Wow! Thanks so much Marcel. This confirms my find, and is better than I expected! It is the birth record of the sister of Stanislaw Postawka. I will look at some of the marriage records now and see if I can find an entry for Kazimierz and Anna...

Hopefully, JoAnn will see this soon!

Thanks again,
Cynthia

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

marcelproust — Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:10 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 4:10 pm

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Hi JoAnn,

I have been looking around in the Szaty (Polish for Šėta) parish books. As you know, there are gaps in the books where the mysterious Stanislaw Postawka would be (his birth is around 1891). So I am looking in the birth books for 1882-1888 working backwards from 1888 (which is closest to the missing books for 1890s). I did this to see 1) if there are ANY records for ANY Postawka surname, and 2) to see if Kazimierz (father of Stanislaw) had other children before Stanislaw.

Before doing this, I used the Russian tools I gave you the link for to translate English "Postawka" to printed Russian, and then from printed Russian to Cyrillic Russian. There are multiple possible spellings when you do this, and attached, I have shown all possibilities. Please note I also translated Vincent the same way for you in the attachment. This is how your family name might look in Russian Script.

Using this template, I searched the parish books and I found one birth record with Postawka surname in 1888. I am attaching it. It is the first entry on the page. Note the vertical writing in the first column is the surname Postawka written in Russian Cyrillic. It is repeated in the 6th column and is underlined. It has a different ending probably to denote grammatical case. Note how it matches the first variation on the template page (with exception of the ending). I am fairly certain this birth record is for a family with your surname - Postawka. You will have to request translation to know for sure and to see all the details. It is likely not your direct family, but may be relatives. This at least tells us that Postawka family was indeed in Szaty / Šėta.

I will keep looking.
Cynthia

Postawko
Nr 71
Birth day: 17th
Baptism day: 27th

When, where, who and by whom, with water only or with the full religious rite: 27th April 1888 in romancatholic parish church of Szaty, by local vicar priest Józef Lidejko, a child was baptised by the name Zofia, with the full religious rite.

Parents, parent's origin and social status, when and where, it is: which parish the baptised was born: daughter of: dworianie (plural form of the word: dworianin, which means: middle class nobility) of the county of Wiłkomierz (in english: Ukmergė): Kazimierz and Anna nee Snarska, legal spouses Postawko. Born on the 17th day of the current month and year, in the area of Towiany (in english: Taujėnai) located in the local parish.

Godparents and witnesses: godparents: dworianie: Michał Postawko and Zofia Mackiewicz, a miss.

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Jul 06, 2020 3:15 pm

Hi JoAnn,

I have been looking around in the Szaty (Polish for Šėta) parish books. As you know, there are gaps in the books where the mysterious Stanislaw Postawka would be (his birth is around 1891). So I am looking in the birth books for 1882-1888 working backwards from 1888 (which is closest to the missing books for 1890s). I did this to see 1) if there are ANY records for ANY Postawka surname, and 2) to see if Kazimierz (father of Stanislaw) had other children before Stanislaw.

Before doing this, I used the Russian tools I gave you the link for to translate English "Postawka" to printed Russian, and then from printed Russian to Cyrillic Russian. There are multiple possible spellings when you do this, and attached, I have shown all possibilities. Please note I also translated Vincent the same way for you in the attachment. This is how your family name might look in Russian Script.

Using this template, I searched the parish books and I found one birth record with Postawka surname in 1888. I am attaching it. It is the first entry on the page. Note the vertical writing in the first column is the surname Postawka written in Russian Cyrillic. It is repeated in the 6th column and is underlined. It has a different ending probably to denote grammatical case. Note how it matches the first variation on the template page (with exception of the ending). I am fairly certain this birth record is for a family with your surname - Postawka. You will have to request translation to know for sure and to see all the details. It is likely not your direct family, but may be relatives. This at least tells us that Postawka family was indeed in Szaty / Šėta.

I will keep looking.
Cynthia

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

JoAnn Renken — Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Author: JoAnn Renken

Posted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Thanks so much Cynthia,
I appreciate all of your help. Unfortunately, my ability to recognize patterns or words written in Russian Cyrillic isn't very good. I am going to need more help after all. I've found what I think are the records of birth for the year my great grandfather was born, but of course, without help I'm not sure. I will ask for more help though. Thank you again!
Peace,
JoAnn

Just as an FYI, I also found this great step by step guide which is pretty good too! There are some links within the document that do not work, but it helped me get to the exact book I was looking for so that's a step! Here's the link:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/img_auth.php/0/06/1-Lithuania_Online_Records-Instruction.pdf

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:33 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Thu Jul 02, 2020 12:33 pm

Hi JoAnn,

Sounds like you are well on your way!

You probably already have this resource, here are online tools for converting Russian to English (and reverse) and Russian print to script.
https://stevemorse.org/index.html#dealing

Also, the crest document you have... FYI, if you need translation assistance, you can post an image of it to the appropriate translation forum (Polish, Russian, German, Latin) on the Polish Origins website and request a full translation.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

JoAnn Renken — Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:39 pm

Author: JoAnn Renken

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2020 8:39 pm

Hello Cynthia,

Thank you very much for all your help. Let me answer your questions. Yes, Wincenty's father is definitely Ludwik. Wincenty's death certificate lists it as so, which I why I'm was thinking he and Stanislaw are cousins. Wincenty's has two brothers, my great grandfather Jozef, and another brother named John. On Jozef's marriage document it lists his parents as Ludwik and Maria. On another document Wincenty lists Jozef as his brother. John has been elusive in my search. I'm waiting for a marriage certificate I ordered from Bronx, New York to see if his parent's names are on it. Since Covid hit, those offices have been closed so I'm in limbo.

I was searching out Stanislaw's information because I'm trying to link the family. His father is listed as Kazimier, who I'm hoping is Ludwik's brother. I have a family crest document from 1804 that needs translating but I need to know it is really from the Postawko family. So my quest is to find the link to the people listed in that document.

I've done some translating of the headings of the Metric documents. I've also written out Jozef's name into Russian cursive using a Russian Handwriting page I found online. Hopefully that will help. Any other help or advice you have is very much appreciated. I'm up for the challenge!

Have a blessed day!
Peace,
JoAnn

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:28 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:28 pm

I looked at some of the links on the pages I gave you for genealogy research in Lithuania and I found this page with pictures of the parish books for Szaty. When the page loads, look for "Szaty" in the first several lines at the top of the page and click on it. It will take you to the portion of the page with the parish books for Szaty and the years available. For your information, Urodzen means Birth; Slubow means Marriage, and Zgonow means Death. They don't have 1889 birth records, but they do have 1888 and earlier. So, I suggest you check those books.

Now, the books are written in Russian Cursive, however, if you request translation of the column headers from Polish Origin's Russian Translation forum, you might find out where to look on the pages for parents names and given name of child. Once you know that, you can take the next step which is to find out what the surname Postawko looks like in Russian cursive. Once you know that, you can look through the records for that name. It is all about pattern recognition and a general knowledge of the Russian alphabet.

If you want to know how to look for records, let me know and I will give you some instructions. It will take some work on your part to get the hang of it, but it can be done. Even if you don't read or understand the language. If you don't want to go through the trouble, then you can hire a researcher to look on your behalf as I mentioned earlier....

https://kresy.genealodzy.pl/gub_wil_87/ap_litwa_V.html#Szaty

These online parish books are a great find!!

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:21 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:21 pm

Hello again JoAnn,

I looked around a bit, and it seems that vital records from 18th - 20th centuries are centralized in Lithuania. The link to the central archive is:

https://www.archyvai.lt/en/genealogical-search.html

Also, I found a page that lists resources for doing genealogical searches in Lithuania:

https://www.familysearch.org/wiki/en/Lithuania_Online_Genealogy_Records

If this is too complicated due to language, you might want to consider hiring a genealogy researcher in Poland or Lithuania to help you track down your answers and the documents to support it. I know Polish Origins offers such assistance if you are interested, and perhaps other members of the community can also make some suggestions.

Wishing you luck in your research,
Cynthia

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:56 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:56 pm

Hello JoAnn,

If Stanislaw and Wincenty are related, they are likely cousins because the passenger list for Stanislaw indicates his father's name is Kazimierz, and from what I see on your family tree and other trees Wincenty's father is Ludwik. Do you have documented proof that Wincenty's father is Ludwik? If so, then Stanislaw and Wincenty do not have the same father - so they are not brothers. However, they could be cousins. If you do not have documented evidence of their parents, I suggest you obtain the St. Louis MO marriage records for Wincenty and Stanislaw. The marriage records would list their respective parents. Having those 2 documents would confirm if they are brothers or not.

Wincenty and Stanislaw's records indicate they were both born in Szaty, so that definitely links the family - but now you have to find the parenting lineage for each of them to find the common ancestor they both share. Getting the St. Louis marriage records for them both would be a start.

Beyond the marriage records, the only way to know the exact relationship is to find the parish records for that family in Lithuania. I will continue to look around. BTW, I don't speak or understand Polish either

Best,
Cynthia

Taujènai

JoAnn Renken — Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Author: JoAnn Renken

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:56 pm

Thank you Cynthia,

I appreciate your response. I've looked at the map you posted and reviewed the documents I have found so far. I am having a tough time putting the Postawko family together correctly. Stanislaw's draft records do say his birthplace is Szaty, Kowno. I have only the records I've found online so far, and a few pictures that belonged to my grandmother. I will continue to search. If you find birth records, I would appreciate any information you can share. I am continuing to look too, but since I don't speak or read Polish they are tough to find. Thank you again!
Peace,
JoAnn

Re: Village Towiany or Towjany

mcdonald0517 — Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 6:29 pm

Hello JoAnn,

I looked at the passenger list, and I also looked at his WWI draft registration card. The draft card explicitly says he was born in "Szaty, Kowna" Lithuania. There is a small village called Taujenai very near Szaty.

Here is current information on Szaty (Šėta), Kowna (Kaunas ) from Wikipedia:

Šėta (Polish: Szaty) is a small town in Kaunas County in central Lithuania. In 2011, it had a population of 935.[1]

Also attached is a screen shot of GoogleMaps showing the distances among Šėta (Polish: Szaty), Taujenai (Polish: Towiany), and Ukmerge (Polish: Wilkomierz).

I will look around to see if I can find Parish books online anywhere.

Cynthia

Village Towiany or Towjany

JoAnn Renken — Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:11 pm

Author: JoAnn Renken

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:11 pm

Hello,
I am looking to find the village to confirm that Stanislaw Postawka is one of my ancestors. On this ship's manifest for 1911 is Stanislaw Postawka, line #4. His last residence is listed as Towiany or Towjany, Kovno. I cannot find this town listed on a map, but I did find Tauroginie. It is located near Wilkomierz, a town listed by Wincenty Postawka on his entry into the USA in 1905. I believe Wincenty, my great grandfather's brother, and Stanislaw are related.

I watched the video posted on how to find towns and ancestors using https://mapa.szukacz.pl/ to find the village of Towiany without any luck. I am adding the passenger and crew manifest here:

https://www.ancestry.com/imageviewer/collections/7488/images/NYT715_1698-0352?pId=4008603125&backurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ancestry.com%2Ffamily-tree%2Fperson%2Ftree%2F151070567%2Fperson%2F432086425189%2Ffacts%2Fcitation%2F1162147855389%2Fedit%2Frecord

Any help you can give would be appreciated. Thanks so much!

Peace,
JoAnn