PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:06 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:06 pm

Thank you! I will post the records there for translation.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

dnowicki — Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:02 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 8:02 pm

jmd75 wrote:

Thank you for your feedback Dave! As per Dave's advice if anyone can provide the complete translation of Jozef's birth record above as well as the records above for the marriage of Jan and Franciszka Siejk I would greatly appreciate it! Sending much thanks to all who have helped and shared in this thread - you have been a wonderful help and I have learned a great deal through your advice.

Hi,

If you post the request for a translation of Jozef's birth record in the Russian Records Translation thread you'll get a better response. Where it is posted now it is likely to be overlooked.

Good luck.

Dave

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:42 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:42 pm

Thank you for your feedback Dave! As per Dave's advice if anyone can provide the complete translation of Jozef's birth record above as well as the records above for the marriage of Jan and Franciszka Siejk I would greatly appreciate it! Sending much thanks to all who have helped and shared in this thread - you have been a wonderful help and I have learned a great deal through your advice.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

dnowicki — Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:19 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 12:19 pm

jmd75 wrote:

Thank you for the offer! I have thought about it and I would hate to have someone go through the trouble of translating it when I am not sure if this was my family. It looks like the Jozef in this record was baptized in August of 1880 - my great-grandfather's marriage certificate states his baptism was March 19, 1882..... However since he is not to be found in Zuzela where he should have been baptized according to the marriage record I don't know what to think. I don't see how the information on the marriage record could be wrong if he needed the information from Poland to marry in the church. One thing that is making me think on it a bit more is that March 19th is St. Joseph's Day. I had always assumed that my great-grandfather may have gotten his name from that day but a part of me is wondering if perhaps the day came from his name. If when he married he wasn't sure of his dob and maybe just had an idea of where he may have been living and the priest took the day from St. Joseph's Day if he could not provide the documentation...... I'm not sure if this is possible. That being said I am very hesitant to add this family to my tree without being sure. I am attaching the marriage information I have found in Andrezejewo in 1879 for Jan Adamczyk and Franciska Siejk. I am asking if anyone who can translate might be able to tell me any family names that appear here - for instance the mother's maiden names. I have done my DNA and I am curious if these surnames may show up in any cousin matches. I figure it is worth it to at least check. Thank you!

https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/414/0/-/26/skan/full/3gRPVgLVOLmk7IihjwXzfw
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/414/0/-/27/skan/full/BmI6c_3tRbCt4vKfa38kYw

Hi,

It is not only possible but a 99.9% certainty that Joseph & Valerie did not provide any birth/baptism documentation for their church marriage in the USA. The priest entered the info according to what the bride and groom told him. If he had seen birth and baptism certificates the entries would have specified the name of the parish where the baptisms took place instead of what he did enter. The final printed line of the register entry (Hujus...baptizati sunt translated: “I sent notice of this marriage to the Rectors of the Churches in which the above named spouses were baptized”) is a legal fiction. It was very rare that couples provided actual baptismal documentation and even more rare that parish priests here sent notifications to Partitioned Poland. Keep in mind that things were very different during the late 19th & early 20th Centuries. Individuals who wished to marry in the Catholic Church here didn’t plan their wedding years or months in advance. Usually all the prep took place during the three weeks prior to the planned date of the wedding which meant that it was not physically possible to send to Europe to request a baptismal certificate and receive a response before the wedding date. Letters sent to Europe spent a minimum of two to four weeks in transit and the same was true for a response to arrive from Europe. That was the best case scenario. In actuality the entire process would usually consume months. Priests in the US were more concerned with having couples marry in the Catholic Church rather than with the assembly of documentation.

I would recommend that you request a translation of the 1880 birth record as it appears to be that of your Józef/Joseph, the son of Jan & Franciszka.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:46 am

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 15, 2020 10:46 am

Thank you for the offer! I have thought about it and I would hate to have someone go through the trouble of translating it when I am not sure if this was my family. It looks like the Jozef in this record was baptized in August of 1880 - my great-grandfather's marriage certificate states his baptism was March 19, 1882..... However since he is not to be found in Zuzela where he should have been baptized according to the marriage record I don't know what to think. I don't see how the information on the marriage record could be wrong if he needed the information from Poland to marry in the church. One thing that is making me think on it a bit more is that March 19th is St. Joseph's Day. I had always assumed that my great-grandfather may have gotten his name from that day but a part of me is wondering if perhaps the day came from his name. If when he married he wasn't sure of his dob and maybe just had an idea of where he may have been living and the priest took the day from St. Joseph's Day if he could not provide the documentation...... I'm not sure if this is possible. That being said I am very hesitant to add this family to my tree without being sure. I am attaching the marriage information I have found in Andrezejewo in 1879 for Jan Adamczyk and Franciska Siejk. I am asking if anyone who can translate might be able to tell me any family names that appear here - for instance the mother's maiden names. I have done my DNA and I am curious if these surnames may show up in any cousin matches. I figure it is worth it to at least check. Thank you!

https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/414/0/-/26/skan/full/3gRPVgLVOLmk7IihjwXzfw
https://szukajwarchiwach.pl/5/414/0/-/27/skan/full/BmI6c_3tRbCt4vKfa38kYw

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

marcelproust — Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:56 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:56 am

jmd75 wrote:

I believe I have located the scans of the records that I listed above. I don't know what to think with these.... If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate it! Thanks in advance!

Do You want me to translate it?

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:51 am

Author: jmd75

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:51 am

I believe I have located the scans of the records that I listed above. I don't know what to think with these.... If anyone has any ideas I would appreciate it! Thanks in advance! There is a marriage of Jan and Franciszka in 1979 and a few more children born in the following years.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:28 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:28 pm

So I have found records for these two children born in Andrzejewo. I do not think that this is my great-grandfather - not only does the marriage record state that he was baptized 3/19/1882 but I have his WWI draft card from NYC that states he was born on March 18 (although he gives a different year there). The March 18th birth would fit with a March 19th baptism so I am assuming the day and month are accurate but I was taken aback when I found these by doing a Google Search of his parents names. The parents ages are not consistent with the baptism of Stanislaw above also so perhaps it is a different Jan Adamczyk and Franciska Siejk? I'm not sure what to think....
http://www.katalogszlachty.com/indeksy/andrzejewo-urodzenia-1882/
http://www.katalogszlachty.com/indeksy/andrzejewo-urodzenia-1880/
If anyone has any thoughts I would appreciate it. I have often wondered if Andrzejewo is worth looking into for my family also.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:48 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:48 pm

Thank you for the information - it is worth a try just to double check.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

dnowicki — Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:16 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:16 pm

jmd75 wrote:

I had thought that Zuzela was indexed on geneteka for the years 1657-1909 and that those years are also covered by projektpodlasie. I received help in the past (not on this forum) and was told that Zuzela was complete. If I make a mistake and someone knows an address where I can write to the parish to inquire I would definitely appreciate it.

Hi,

I can’t say whether or not you made a mistake but here is some info you may find useful if you want to contact the parish regarding your great-grandfather’s birth & baptism record. Keep in mind that he may or may not have been baptized on March 19. Since March 19 is the Feast of St. Joseph it was his Name Day, a day more important in Poland than the actual day of birth. He may have been born and baptized in March near that Feast Day and used that date as the day of his birth and/or baptism.

Here is a link to information about what books are held in the parish of Zuzela itself: https://parafie.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pr&pid=10299

The data may or may not be up to date. However the address (4th section down from the top) is current. The following link shows parish info which includes an email address: http://www.parafiazuzela.vxm.pl/index.php/kontakt-i-dojazd.html

Good luck in your research.

Dave

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

Sophia — Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:19 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 1:19 pm

jmd75 wrote:

OK, I had thought you were looking through individual church book images.
Thanks!
Sophia

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:41 pm

I had thought that Zuzela was indexed on geneteka for the years 1657-1909 and that those years are also covered by projektpodlasie. I received help in the past (not on this forum) and was told that Zuzela was complete. If I make a mistake and someone knows an address where I can write to the parish to inquire I would definitely appreciate it.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

Sophia — Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:24 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:24 pm

jmd75 wrote:

Hello! I am attempting to find the baptismal record of my great-grandfather Jozef Adamczyk, son of Jan Adamczyk and Franciszka Sojka. According to my great-grandparents marriage record he was baptized on March 19, 1882 and was from Pol. Rus, gub. Lomza, pow. Ostrow gm. Szulborze Koty wies Szulborze. I have been told that based on this information my great-grandfather should have been baptized in Zuzela Parish, however when searching through the parish indexes/records by myself and with others assisting me we have found no trace of him, his parents marriage or any siblings. I am wondering if there is a parish nearby that he may have been baptized in? Also I am a little confused by the location mentioned on the marriage record – I have found a place called Szulborze that looks like it is in Lesniewo – not Szulborze Koty. Is there a possibility that I am looking in the wrong place? If anyone has any ideas I would greatly appreciate it! Thank you for any help you can provide!

Out of curiosity, where did you find the parish records for Zuzela that you searched through? What I see online are records for 1826-1873 inclusive, then 1881, then 1889-1892 inclusive. That leaves out a lot of years, including 1882 which is the year in which you expect to find Jozef's baptism. This list of available records may exclude the marriage of his parents, as well.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:35 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:35 pm

Thank you! I had the same idea about the church here and I have reached out to them asking if there are any other documents relating to the marriage and am waiting for a reply. This seems very unusual - it seems like usually all of the family would be found in the same place and I am wondering why that is not happening here. It seems very strange. If anyone can think of any other parishes that I could check that have records online or that I could write to please let me know and I will try. Again - I can't thank you enough - I have been at this for ten years and this is very good news to me!

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

marcelproust — Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:08 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 3:08 pm

jmd75 wrote:

Wow! Thank you so very much! I know very little about my great-grandfather's family and that is a very important find! I think it is a definite possibility that this could be a brother! Is there a link to the scanned records for this parish online? I do not speak the language but I have had some success in finding members of my great-grandmother's family. I am wondering if I would be able to locate other siblings or possibly the marriage of Jozef's parents. I am really surprised that his baptism is not showing up. I am assuming that he would have had to write to Poland to obtain a baptismal record in order to marry my great-grandmother in the church in NY. Many, many thanks!

Here is the link to the online records for the parish of Czyżew:

https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/ar15-zs0163d

I checked Zuzela and Czyżewa romancatholic parishes but there was no marriage record for Jóżef's parents. I checked 1888-1873
Maybe You should ask if there are any attachments to the NY marriage (in the place where these documents are stored in USA)

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:53 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:53 pm

Wow! Thank you so very much! I know very little about my great-grandfather's family and that is a very important find! I think it is a definite possibility that this could be a brother! Is there a link to the scanned records for this parish online? I do not speak the language but I have had some success in finding members of my great-grandmother's family. I am wondering if I would be able to locate other siblings or possibly the marriage of Jozef's parents. I am really surprised that his baptism is not showing up. I am assuming that he would have had to write to Poland to obtain a baptismal record in order to marry my great-grandmother in the church in NY. Many, many thanks!

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

marcelproust — Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:01 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 2:01 pm

jmd75 wrote:

I am attaching here the marriage record for my great-grandparents - Jozef Adamczyk and Valeria Kapica

I did not find Józef's baptism record but i have found the other baptism, which i believe is his brother's.

What do You think about it?

Czyżew-Stacja
84

It happened in Czyżew on 24th June/5th July 1887, at 8 p.m.
Appeared personally Jan Adamczuk, worker, living in Czyżew-Stacja, 34 years old, in the presence of Franciszek Dmochowski, 36 years old and Paweł Dmochowski, 40 years old, workers living in Czyżew-Stacja and presented Us a male child, informing that the child was born in Czyżew-Stacja on 4th July of the current year, at 4 p.m., with his legal wife Franciszka ee Siejk, 34 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held today, the child was given the name Stanisław and the godparents were: Franciszek Doncer and Anna Doncer.
This act was read to the declarant and the witnesses, all illiterate and was signed by Us.

Priest Tomasz Gogolewski, parson of the parish of Czyżew, serving as Civil Registrar.

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

jmd75 — Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:24 pm

Author: jmd75

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 12:24 pm

I am attaching here the marriage record for my great-grandparents - Jozef Adamczyk and Valeria Kapica

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

marcelproust — Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:27 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:27 am

dnowicki wrote:

jmd75 wrote:

Hi,

Although the Słownik geograficzny… http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XII/69
lists the parish for Szulborze as Zuzela, the later Skorowidz gives the RC parish for Szulborze Koty as Czyżew. Since you could find no record of your great-grandfather in Zuzela it would seem that the parish of Czyżew would be a logical place to search.

Wishing you successful searching,

Dave

There is no baptism record for Adamczyk Józef in the romancatholic parish of Czyżew. There is only baptism record for Adamczuk Marcjanna in 1882, but her parents do not match Józef's.
So, as i wrote above, it would be good to read the aforementioned marriage record.
Dear jmd75 user, can You please provide us with this document?

Re: Hoping for help with town/baptism record

dnowicki — Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:14 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2020 10:14 am

jmd75 wrote: