PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:20 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Sun Apr 08, 2012 4:20 pm

I am already feeling more comfortable with the penmanship. The documents you posted have helped enormously.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:47 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 8:47 am

gdeborski wrote:

Once I figure out what the words are....

Gary D.

LOL! Don't worry, Gary! The first time I put my eyes on a polish church record, it took me seven attempts untill I find in which part of it was written my family surname. As time - and records pass by - you will get more used to the clerk's penmanship.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:53 am

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:53 am

Thank you for the suggestion James. I have used these tools. The biggest challenge I have is trying to decipher the hand written records. To my eye the z always looks like an r and the capital C looks very much like an l, etc. etc. etc. And this is for records that are reasonably clear!

Once I figure out what the words are, the translation become fairly straightforward.

Gary D.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

James — Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Author: James

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:09 pm

Hi gdborski,

Have you tried using " Google Language Tools " ?
It is FREE, and does a good job translating.
You can either type in the Polish text , or "copy and paste " the document, and have it translated.

I believe that there are other sites that will translate for free.

James

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:18 am

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 11:18 am

Thank you again. I've already begun using these tools and they are very helpful.

Gary D.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:49 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:49 pm

Gary,

Another helpfull tool. By William "Freddy" Hofmann.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:11 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:11 pm

Thank you. Just a brief scan of your "teacher" and I can see how the Polish wording flows. I'm going to try and decipher the other documents I discovered. I may post another with my translation to check how well I've done.

I hope that I can repay the favor is some way.

Gary D.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:13 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 3:13 pm

You are welcome. Attached is a .pdf that has been my "teacher" on how to read BMD polish records (if the penmanship permits, of course), plus a lot of good friends in Poland. Which is not to say I cannot help you again and again.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:35 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:35 pm

Gilberto,

You are a saint! Thank you!

Now I know the names of my great great grandparents for the very first time.

Gary D.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:03 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:03 pm

Gary,

Katarzyna
record on June 26 1859, birth on 22.
father Jan Klimowski, 27
witnesses: Jan Federowicz, 44 and Franciszek Figlewski, 35
mother; Agnieszka Krajinski, 24
godparents: Jan Lapkowski and Franciszka Federowicz

Konstanty,
record on August 23, 1863, birth on 16.
father: Jan Klimowski, 30
witnesses: Jan Federowicz, 50 and Michal Rogowski, 52
mother: Agnieszka Krajinski 28
godparents: Konstanty Krajinski and Franciszka Federowicz.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 12:34 pm

Here is an update on the place of origin. I found the record of birth of Katarzyna Klimowska (the same Katarzyna as in the above manifest) as well as the births of several of her siblings. It appears that the speculation about Szczutowo was right on the mark!

I've attached images for Katarzyna and her brother Konstanty. I'm struggling with the Polish. I believe both show Jan Klimowski as the father. I have not been able to figure out the name of the mother and have nothing in my records to help with that. Assuming I'm correct about Jan being the father, all other information (very limited and sketchy) had the father as Frank (Francizek). I can make out some of the wording as dates and or ages, but am far from certain that I've got those even close.

I'm hoping that some of you wonderful people can help me translate these documents. I have several others for the same family, so I'm hoping to learn from these 2 how to parse out the remaining ones.

Thank you in advance,

Gary D.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:32 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:32 pm

Gilberto,

That is a good suggestion and I am working on that angle. The family name in the U.S. became Deborski and we have long suspected that it had been changed somehow along the way. I've been looking for ship manifests for my ancestors for years. I only found this one because I did sort of a "brute force" search of all the databases searching only for Kat* because I could not find any groups that even faintly matched what I knew of them. I am 99% sure this one is my gg grandmother and her kids, especially with the note that they are going to meet her husband in Denver, Colo. I have run down all the Deborski's in the U.S. and they are either directly related to me or their name was indexed poorly in a database. I tried that approach looking for her husband, Frank(Franciszek), and there were a few that were possible, but none had any information that could positively identify him as my Frank. Kata also had 2 brothers, Konstanty Klimowski and Jozef Klimowski, who emigrated before her and probably before her husband. I have yet to find either of them in the ship manifest databases.

Deborski and Dęborski are very rare in Poland today, with only about 10 people total according the the research that was done in 1990. Tuburski,Tuburska, Tyburski and Tyburska are a little more common with most of them concentrated in the three "counties" of Brodnica, Rypin, and Sierpc. I think that searching for the Klimowskis might be more fruitful as their name was not changed that I know of.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:50 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 5:50 pm

I was thinking if you have checked if more Tuburska families immigrated. If so, perhaps their ship manifests were written in a clearer handwritting.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

gdeborski — Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 4:03 pm

Thanks again everyone. It's great to find a site with so many people willing to help!

Here is a bit more information - Family stories put the birthplace of a Julia Cymański, wife of the brother of Kata in the manifest as Świedziebnia. Looking at Google maps, this is ~10 km NE of Rypin and ~5 km S of Szczutowo. Another that looks promising is Sadłovo ~5 km ENE of Rypin. A couple of good places to dig into further. Anyone know someone who knows this area?

By the way - Almost all of my ancestors that settled in Colorado were coal miners - Yes there were a lot of coal mines there, my Dad worked in them until the mid 1950's. My Mom's side of the family were English-Welsh and most of them were coal miners for several generations before they came to the U.S. Family stories are that all the Polish side were simple farmers and most left to avoid being drafted into the Russian army.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

Anonymous — Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:33 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sun Jan 01, 2012 7:33 am

Hi, all
Assuming "Galicia" was added letter, we then should focus on places near Rypin. With that in mind I would suggest a search on places ending -towo listed in kujawsko pomorskie province http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polkujaw/county.htm#ry. However, the map shows that Rypin powiat is on the border to the mazowieckie province. Therefore, another search with the same criteria should be done in http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~polmazow/mazowtowns.html
Gilberto

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

PolishLibrarian — Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:03 pm

Author: PolishLibrarian

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 11:03 pm

One more thought - on the manifest it certainly does look like Galicia to me as well, but the handwriting is distinctly different from the handwriting on the rest of the manifest. Could Galicia have been written in at some other point by someone else? I think I see ditto marks under the word Galicia that look very similar to the ditto marks before and after Kathlin's line (2 lines above her the nationality is Russian), so if there is a ditto mark on Kathlin's line, then she would also be listed as Russian.

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

PolishLibrarian — Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:53 pm

Author: PolishLibrarian

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 10:53 pm

Based on Gilberto's 3:57 post this afternoon, I took a look at the Rypin/Brodnica area map. There is a small village about 7 mi. WNW of Rypin named Szczutowo. In addition there is a larger village of the same name - Szczutowo - maybe 10 mi. NE of Rypin and about 8 mi. SE of Brodnica.

You say that Gus listed Stutora as his birthplace on his draft registration. I see that's how the info. was indexed, but the actual draft registration shown on Ancestry is hard to read - definitely says he's from Poland Russia though. Have you looked at a microfilm image other than what is on Ancestry (say at the Colorado library that has the index of the WWI draft registrations)? Could the birthplace say Stutova (instead of Stutora)? Not sure how Szcz is pronounced, but -towo is pronounced -tovo. I tried the village name on Ivona and the Polish pronounciation sounds like Shtutovo to me... What do others think?

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

KKempa — Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:42 pm

Author: KKempa

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:42 pm

(possibly Stottera listed as in Austria but not Russia or Poland?)

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

KKempa — Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:41 pm

Author: KKempa

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:41 pm

None of these look like "Stutora" to me -- shows 27 possible matches.

http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~gazetteer

Re: Help with deciphering place name in ship manifest

KKempa — Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:38 pm

Author: KKempa

Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2011 9:38 pm

(Szemtowo made more sense to me, to use as the search term)