PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Darek Garwolin — Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:22 pm

Author: Darek Garwolin

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:22 pm

annabroszko wrote:

Tadeusz had a daughter, Anna Nika Graybner born in Ukraine as far as I remember. Anna was married twice and had two sons which one is my father Andrzej Broszko. Taduesz, probably died from his wounds.

And here is information about Stanisław Czesław Graybner, the father

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=pfbid02yEFdjD4x6GU5xRG2H1yBjosNaXjGHHfYBhzTqAj8n6MMit64ZDC7bkL2PjAtCZBXl&id=100079454927580

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Darek Garwolin — Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:15 pm

Author: Darek Garwolin

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:15 pm

Joy Dean wrote:

annabroszko wrote:

That is very interesting.
Would you know much about Emma (my great-grandfather's half-sister)?

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Darek Garwolin — Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:10 pm

Author: Darek Garwolin

Posted: Fri Oct 20, 2023 1:10 pm

Joy Dean wrote:

annabroszko wrote:

That is very interesting.
Would you know much about Emma (my great-grandfather's half-sister)?

Hello I am interested in the Graybner family from Chotynia and I have some information Please contact me at
dariuszpie@onet.pl

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:50 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Thu Mar 02, 2023 11:50 am

annabroszko wrote:

That is very interesting.
Would you know much about Emma (my great-grandfather's half-sister)?

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

annabroszko — Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:14 am

Author: annabroszko

Posted: Sun Feb 19, 2023 6:14 am

Tadeusz had a daughter, Anna Nika Graybner born in Ukraine as far as I remember. Anna was married twice and had two sons which one is my father Andrzej Broszko. Taduesz, probably died from his wounds.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:13 pm

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:13 pm

I am in contact with the owner of the tree in ancestry.co.uk.
I have been told that Emma and Stanislaw had six sons, all of whom were killed in WW1 and WW2, and one daughter.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:30 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:30 am

Thank you, Sophia.

Joy

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Sophia — Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:36 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:36 pm

Joy Dean wrote:

Thank you.
Yes, I have hovered now on his mother's record - translated to English, her name is Angel - and under remarks, her actual date of death is given: 19th January 1938. Also, Stanislaw's date is given, 17th October 1918. Also, there is "The index added: Pieniążek_Stanisław".

Hi Joy,
Isn't it great to be able to navigate that site? So now you are even able to see the name of the person who indexed those records, Stanislaw Pieniazek.
For some reason, when I click on the word "SKAN" under "Remarks" for Aniela Graybner's death, it does not show me the actual image from the church book, so I am providing a link here for you in case you had the same problem.
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=1&zs=0159d&sy=1938&kt=3&plik=034-039.jpg#zoom=1.5&x=309&y=179
Best,
Sophia

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:07 pm

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 3:07 pm

Thank you.
Yes, I have hovered now on his mother's record - translated to English, her name is Angel - and under remarks, her actual date of death is given: 19th January 1938. Also, Stanislaw's date is given, 17th October 1918. Also, there is "The index added: Pieniążek_Stanisław".

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Sophia — Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:06 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 12:06 pm

Great find, Katarzyna!

Joy, you cannot be sure what Stanislaw's death record says or does not say, just by looking at how it is presented on Geneteka. What you can say is that the person who indexed the records from Czersk or from Warsawa Sz. Andrzej chose to include more information than the person who indexed the records from Gorzno.
If you go to either of the Geneteka records from Gorzno for Stanislaw (the birth or death record) and you look at the column "Remarks" and hover your mouse over the little "i" then you will see that the indexer has provided an actual birth date and an actual death date. So it appears that the indexer was able to see the entire text of each of these records.
Perhaps you could request through Polish Origins to get copies of those records, to see if further clues are to be found.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:02 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 11:02 am

Thank you, Katarzyna. Without being able to visit the parish of Górzno physically, I think that I shall assume, hopefully, that this Stanislaw is ours. What a pity that the record does not give his parents' names, as it does for his mother's (below).
It was very helpful that the age of a child's father is given on the child's record of birth.

Interesting that his mother's death was recorded in the parish of St. Andrew https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=71wa&rid=D&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=aniela&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1938&to_date=

If this is indeed "our" Stanislaw, then poor Emma being by herself for so many years.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

katarzyna_t — Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:33 am

Author: katarzyna_t

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 10:33 am

Joy Dean wrote:

Thank you, Sophia.
I didn't know anything about Stanislaw since their marriage. I wonder if there is any way of ascertaining if he is Emma's husband.

Hello Joy and Sophia,

Stanisław mentioned by Sophia died in 1918 in Górzno parish. Geneteka shows that there was Stanisław Graybner born in 1871 in Górzno parish as well
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=B&w=07mz&rid=B&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=Stanis%C5%82aw&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1871&to_date=1871

So I tried to find the birthdate of "our" Stanisław based on docments we already have:
1. birth record of Tadeusz - we can read there:
"October 17th/30th, 1906, at 10 a.m.
Appeared: Stanisław Leon Graybner, engineer, 35 years old, temporarily residing in Czersk"
2. marriage record of Emma and Stanisław (dated 1896):
"Stanislaw is a bachelor and engineer aged 24"
It means that Stanisław was born in 1871-72!

Moreover, in the marriage record we can read that Stanisław was born in Chotynia, Garwolin County. Chotynia belonged to the Górzno parish, please find a map: https://goo.gl/maps/ZR3Ed1eEBjAD8SMu8
Unfortunately records of this parish for the years 1871-72 are not available online so we cannot check parents' names to confirm this theory.

Best regards,
Katarzyna

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Tue Mar 30, 2021 8:47 am

Thank you, Sophia.
I didn't know anything about Stanislaw since their marriage. I wonder if there is any way of ascertaining if he is Emma's husband.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Sophia — Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:12 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:12 am

Joy Dean wrote:

Thank you, Sophia.

Joy,
In one of your earlier posts you were wondering why Emma's husband is not listed in that cemetery. Do you know whether he may have died long before her? There is a Stanislaw Graybner death listed in 1918 (though no way for me to know if he is the right Stanislaw) here:
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=D&w=07mz&rid=D&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=
Best,
Sophia

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:00 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 11:00 am

Thank you, Sophia.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Sophia — Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:50 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:50 am

[quote="Joy Dean"]

Joy Dean wrote:

I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.

Here is a photo of the gravestone of Emma Graybner. The grave is located in the Brodno Cemetery in Warsaw section 36F.
Her daughter and son-in-law have been laid to rest with her.

Does anyone know what the "S.P." signify, either side of the cross on the gravestone?[/quote

Hi,
The "SP" stands for "świętej pamięci" which means "of holy memory".
Great photo.
Sophia

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:19 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Mon Mar 29, 2021 10:19 am

Joy Dean wrote:

I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:50 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 9:50 am

I think that 30PLN would be worth it to see a photo of the grave and the grave's address: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/zmarly/79889

I wonder why there is no entry for Emma's husband, Stanislaw.

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

Joy Dean — Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:34 am

Author: Joy Dean

Posted: Mon Mar 22, 2021 5:34 am

Thank you very much for all your help.
Joy

Re: Emma Keartland and Stanislaw Leon Graybner

katarzyna_t — Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:07 pm

Author: katarzyna_t

Posted: Sun Mar 21, 2021 5:07 pm

Joy Dean wrote:

It is very interesting thank you.
Emma Keartland was born in Kennington, Surrey in 1875, and had no other middle name, as far as I am aware. She was christened in Kennington 17 August 1881 at the same time as her sister Alberta Louise Keartland who was born in Camberwell, Surrey in 1878.

Edited: I forgot to say: nice name, Sophia.

Perhaps she converted to Catholicism in Poland before marriage and took the name of a saint?

Hello Joy Dean,

I did more digging to try to verify Emma's date of death and indeed the date you mentioned (January 1st, 1968) occurs on the website with the list of obituaries from Warsaw (unfortunately there is no English version of the website), please take a look: http://www.nekrologi-baza.pl/?page_id=1149&nazwisko=Graybner&imie=&nazwisko_rodowe=&data_smierci=&search=Szukaj&_wpnonce=f3c1f001cb&_wp_http_referer=%2F%3Fpage_id%3D1149&paged=1

We can find there also information about date of death of Aniela Graybner nee Trylska - Stanisław's mother. Based on this, I found this record indexed: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=71wa&rid=D&search_lastname=Graybner&search_name=aniela&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=1938&to_date=
We can find there the names of Aniela's parents: Maciej and Eleonora.

Best regards,
Katarzyna