PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

gdeborski — Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 am

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:26 am

Ute,

I spent several hours searching through the 1900 census. They are available on the FamilySearch.org. I did not have much luck. A few years ago I tried to collect census records for most of the direct and near relatives in my lines, so I had probably already spent more than a few hours looking for Joseph Klimowski back then.

I appreciate all the work and thinking everyone on here has done with this problem. I did not expect it to be such a difficult question. I'll keep looking, but this is starting to look like another one that I'll have to put in my "brick wall" pile until I can find some other information to help with this search.

Gary D.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:31 am

Author: Ute

Posted: Mon Jan 30, 2012 3:31 am

gdeborski wrote:

Ute,

After I read some of the things on the web about St. Florian's, I wondered if the marriage was before the formation of that church. It looked to be close, now if there was a child before John, it would push the marriage even further back in time.

What a puzzle! I think this is one of the reasons I enjoy genealogy so much. It is a huge puzzle that you never really solve.

Thank you again! I'll need to absorb all this and lay plans about where to go from here.

I hope I can be as helpful to others as everyone here has been to me.

Gary

Gary,
It is really strange that I found some of Apolinia's parents children at St. Florian, for example their son Antoni who was born in May 1906, but not the first (two?) children of Joseph Klimowski and Apolonia Pavlak who were born around that time also. Maybe not all of the St. Florian records are indexed yet (I think it's an ongoing project).

I searched the St. Columba parish records, but -- as bruceter2 said -- St. Columba was not a Polish Catholic Church, the records available online are limited, and I found no Polish names in the parish records so far. I don't think we will find the Klimowski-Pavlak marriage at St. Columba.

Do you know where Joseph Klimowski lived before he married Apolonia Pavlak? I don't have a subscription to Ancestry and don't have access to census records. You said the 1910 Census indicated that Joseph's year of immigration was 1890. Do you know where he lived between 1890 and 1910? He may have lived in another part of the city (or not in Chicago or IL at all), attended another church, the couple was married there, and returned to Apolonia Pavlak's parents in Hegewisch some years later. The fact that the address given in their son John's birth certificate of Feb 1907 is identical with Apolonia's parents' address does not necessarily mean that it was Apolonia's permanent residence at the time. She may have just stayed with her parents around the time when John was born.

I checked part of the St. Casimir records again, the church we found the first Joseph Klimowski's marriage that turned out to be the wrong one, and found a Franciszek Klimowski, residence 2619, 24th St. Chicago, who married Anna Waclawik on July 7, 1912. The church marriage record of the "wrong" Josef Klimowski and Antonia Cichorza at St. Casimir Church indicated that they were married on 13 May 1906, that Josef Klimowski's residence was at 1159 W. 24th Pl [?] and his bride's residence at 46, 24th Pl.[?] at the time. Perhaps we will find more members of the Klimowski family in earlier census records and if we are lucky, even the Joseph Klimowski who married Apolonia Pavlak.
Ute

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:38 am

Author: Ute

Posted: Sun Jan 29, 2012 12:38 am

bruceter2 wrote:

Gary!

It slipped my mind...Hegewisch did have.does another Catholic Church that was founded and built before St. Florian. It is St. Columba. I am adding the address and phone number for you. You may want to try there for the marriage and death records of your family. It was not a Polish Catholic Church, but since it was there prior to Florian, the people in town would wordhip there in the early years.

13323 S Green Bay Ave Chicago, IL 60633
(773) 646-2660

Bruceter2,
I found the attached page when having a look at St. Columba (Chicago) Baptisms, 1884-1915* and thought I share it with you. As you said, St. Columba was not a Polish Catholic Church, I found no Polish names so far, and the parish records available online are limited. I don't think we will find the Klimowski-Pavlak marriage at St. Columba. But it's still interesting to learn something about Hegewisch -- it seems we are learning something new every day ...

*Source: https://familysearch.org -- Illinois, Chicago, Catholic Church Records, 1833-1925, St. Columba (Chicago), Baptisms, 1884-1915, Image 3 of 54.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Cheri Vanden Berg — Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:42 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 10:42 pm

bruceter2 wrote:

Yes! Early in the 1900's, Holy Cross was part of Hammond, Indiana

bruceter2,
Sounds like you were from what was once my neck of the woods. I was born in Hammond, Indiana, and had family on both sides of State Line Rd. I have many family members buried at Holy Cross Cemetery. Calumet City was once called West Hammond, Illinois, so anyone looking for anyone in the area during that time period might want to know that. I think I read two different dates for the name change, so I think it was 1924 or earlier. When I was looking up the date, I also found out that towns Schrumville and Sobieski Park both became West Hammond, so there was a significant Polish population there, and St. Andrew was built in the 1890s I think, but that is too far from the Carondelet and Houston addresses, so hopefully St. Columba will have the records.

When I went in search of my grandparents marriage record, I quizzed my older cousins about where their parents were baptized. My mom was the youngest of 10, and baptized in Hammond. Her three older sisters were born in Chicago. It was quite a chase, including writing to the diocese because one of the churches had closed, and they held the records. I came up empty. It turned out that they were married where my mother was baptized, and where I was baptized - St. Mary's in Hammond, Indiana. My mom and her sisters that were living when I started searching, all thought their parents started out in Chicago.

I do think that looking for the church where the first child was baptized is the best bet, but I'm sure everyone has found that people aren't always predictable. I also didn't get what I had hoped for in their marriage record - their places of birth, but now I am very fortunate to know...

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:48 pm

Author: Ute

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 5:48 pm

bruceter2 wrote:

Great, bruceter2! The following St. Columba parish records/years are available:
- Baptisms, 1884-1915
- Baptisms, marriages, deaths, communions, 1906-1922
- Marriages, 1909-1915.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

bruceter2 — Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 4:30 pm

Gary!

It slipped my mind...Hegewisch did have.does another Catholic Church that was founded and built before St. Florian. It is St. Columba. I am adding the address and phone number for you. You may want to try there for the marriage and death records of your family. It was not a Polish Catholic Church, but since it was there prior to Florian, the people in town would wordhip there in the early years.

13323 S Green Bay Ave Chicago, IL 60633
(773) 646-2660

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

bruceter2 — Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 3:11 pm

gdeborski wrote:

Gary: found this for you, maybe it is a piece of your family OBIT: PAWLAK, Mary 82 Hegewisch,IL 1/22/1961 Holy Cross Calumet CityIL

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:26 pm

Author: Ute

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:26 pm

gdeborski wrote:

... now if there was a child before John, it would push the marriage even furthher back in time.

Gary,
Here are three more pieces to the puzzle:
1. I found John "Klemosky", born 22 Feb 1907, in the Illinois, Cook County Birth Registers, 1871-1915. The record confirms that John was the second child born to this mother:
see https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/N7CZ-JQ1
2. And now a surprise: I also found Casimir, born 7 Dec 1912, in the Illinois, Cook County Birth Registers, 1871-1915, and he is indexed under the name Casimir CLEMENS, fifth child, residence 13336 Huston Av, Hegewick, Parents born in Poland, Father 40 years old, Mother's name: Apolonia, Mother's maiden name: Pavlak, Father's name: Joseph, Father's occupation: Carpenter. When I saw the name Clemens, I thought it's another family, but everything else is in line with what we know about the Klimowski family. It seems that they changed their family name to Clemens!
3. And here is Casimir Clemens' Report of Birth: https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-266-11819-19601-84?cc=1462519
(Note: Here it says fifth child, four alive!).
What a mystery this family is ...

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

gdeborski — Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:49 am

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 9:49 am

Ute,

After I read some of the things on the web about St. Florian's, I wondered if the marriage was before the formation of that church. It looked to be close, now if there was a child before John, it would push the marriage even further back in time.

What a puzzle! I think this is one of the reasons I enjoy genealogy so much. It is a huge puzzle that you never really solve.

Thank you again! I'll need to absorb all this and lay plans about where to go from here.

I hope I can be as helpful to others as everyone here has been to me.

Gary

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:47 am

Author: Ute

Posted: Sat Jan 28, 2012 2:47 am

gdeborski wrote:

Thanks again everyone!

Not knowing much about the Chicago area, I probably would never have found the connection to the St. Florian church or the Hegewicsch neighborhood. I'm trying to contact the church/parish. I will let you know if I am successful.

Gary,
I have some good news and some bad news for you. The bad news is that I searched St. Florian parish records again and could not find the marriage record of Joseph Klimowski and Apolonia Pawlak so far, nor the births/baptisms of John Klimowski, born Feb 22, 1907, and Genevieve Klimowski, born abt. 1909.

The good news is that I found the other Klimowski childrens’ baptism records: Helena Francisca, Clementina Julianna, and Casimir Antoni Klimowski, born 1910, 1911, and 1912, who are listed in the 1920 Census, were baptized at St. Florian! I’m going to attach the records for you.

When I searched through the Illinois, Cook County Birth Registers, 1871-1915, I also found births/baptisms of Pawlak children who were Apolonia Pawlak’s siblings, i.e. the children of Antoni Pawlak and Julianna Szartosky. The last child that I found born to them was Antoni Pawlak, born 18 May 1906, baptized 20 May 1906. Antony was the eleventh child born to this mother. The family’s residence was at 13251, “Carondale” Ave. at the time.

Since there were so many children in the Pawlak family, I thought that perhaps Apolonia moved out before she got married to Joseph Klimowski, that they got married at some other Chicago church and had their first born children baptized there. But then I remembered that you said the family's residence was at 13251, Carondelet Ave. when their son John Klimowski was born, so they must have lived at this address the whole time. When I had a look at John Klimowski's birth record (his name is misspelled John Klemosky) I noticed that it says "Number of previous children of mother: One", "Now living: None". So it seems that there was not only John but also another child before John (most likely born around 1905-1906), and both children died, if I understand the record correctly.
Ute

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:14 pm

Author: Ute

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 5:14 pm

gdeborski wrote:

Bill and Ute,

You are truly amazing and have a real talent for digging out the information.

Many thanks again,

Gary D.

You're welcome, Gary. I forgot to mention that Apolonia Klimowski is also indexed in the Dziennik Chicagoski 1890-1929 Death Notice Index as Klimowska, Paulina, Date of Death: 23 May 1913, Date of Notice: 26 May 1913, Age 26.

Source: http://www.pgsa.org -- Dziennik Chicagoski 1890-1929 Death Notice Index Results

Unfortunately, there was no obituary for her in “Dziennik Chicagoksi” that would have included the names of family members left behind, only a so-called “Zmarli”. More information about what a “Zmarli” was can be found at the PGSA website (scroll down to the middle of the page): http://www.pgsa.org/dzien9029.php
Ute

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

bruceter2 — Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:47 pm

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:47 pm

Bill Rushin wrote:

gdeborski wrote:

Bill and Ute, You are truly amazing and have a real talent for digging out the information. Many thanks again, Gary D.

Dzienki Gary

PS-Holy Cross Cemetery and Mausoleums
801 Michigan City Rd Calumet City
Cook County Illinois USA
Postal Code: 60409 Phone: 708-862-5398
This a huge cemetery!

If the phone area code does not work, try 773 instead of 708. I know that many of the area codes have changed in that area. Good luck Gary...and happy hunting! If you need me to run up to Holy Cross and get pics for you will be happy to do so, but it will be another month b4 I get up there...just let me know!

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

bruceter2 — Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:37 pm

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:37 pm

Bill Rushin wrote:

Quote:

Interment was at Stae Crucis, Hammond.

I checked Holy Cross cemetery at Find a Grave -nothing listed for that name. Good job everyone!

Yes! Early in the 1900's, Holy Cross was part of Hammond, Indiana

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Bill Rushin — Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:29 pm

Author: Bill Rushin

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:29 pm

gdeborski wrote:

Bill and Ute, You are truly amazing and have a real talent for digging out the information. Many thanks again, Gary D.

Dzienki Gary

PS-Holy Cross Cemetery and Mausoleums
801 Michigan City Rd Calumet City
Cook County Illinois USA
Postal Code: 60409 Phone: 708-862-5398
This a huge cemetery!

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

gdeborski — Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:17 pm

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:17 pm

Bill and Ute,

You are truly amazing and have a real talent for digging out the information.

Many thanks again,

Gary D.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Bill Rushin — Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Author: Bill Rushin

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 3:02 pm

Quote:

Interment was at Stae Crucis, Hammond.

I checked Holy Cross cemetery at Find a Grave -nothing listed for that name. Good job everyone!

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

Ute — Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:11 pm

Author: Ute

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 2:11 pm

Bill Rushin wrote:

Ute, I did a search for 13000 Carondelet and I got a map showing nearby Hegewisch -sounds Polish to me so I searched again for Hedewisch and found a picture of the stained glass windows of the church, which lead me to St. Florian 13145 Houston Ave. and that led me to this marker. The church is 5 blocks from 13000 Carondelet .

Thank you, Bill and bruceter2! St. Florian is right! I checked part of the St. Florian parish records -- didn't find the marriage record or birth/baptism records of the children(yet), but Apolonia Klimowska's death, so St. Florian must have been the church the family attended. Apolonia passed away on 23 May 1913 at age 27. Her parents were indeed Antoni Pawlak and Julianna (last name not given), the family's residence was at 13336, Houston at the time. Interment was at Stae Crucis, Hammond.
I'm attaching the record.
Ute

Source: www.FamilySearch.org, Illinois, Chicago, Catholic Church Records, 1833-1925, St. Florian (Chicago), Baptisms, marriages, deaths, 1900-1915.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

gdeborski — Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:58 am

Author: gdeborski

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:58 am

Thanks again everyone!

Not knowing much about the Chicago area, I probably would never have found the connection to the St. Florian church or the Hegewicsch neighborhood. I'm trying to contact the church/parish. I will let you know if I am successful.

Re: Marriage of Joseph Klimowski and Apalonia Pavlak in Chicago

bruceter2 — Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:11 am

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:11 am

Just to infom you, Holy Cross is the Polish Cemetery located in Calumet City, Illinois. Most everyone from St. Florain Church was buried at Holy Cross Cemetery. I think your family was from the St. Florian Parish and that would be where they were married and buried at Holy Cross Cemetery.

I do know where the house is located on Carondolet Avenue; Chicago, Illinois 60633 (zip code); Hegewisch is in Chicago but all the Polish people nicknamed the area Hegewisch and at one time, you could mail a letter using Hegewisch in the address and the letters would get there; most people in Chicago know where Hegewisch is located and it is the 10th Ward now not the 8th.

St. Florian Church

bruceter2 — Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:04 am

Author: bruceter2

Posted: Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:04 am

I went to school at St. Florian and lived in Hegewisch. The OLD St. Florian was on the corner and was an old wood building that has been tron down for years. However, St. Florian's did build a new Parish in the middle of the block that is still there along with the recotory and school buildings. Alos, the chemical plant would have been General Chemical which is located on 122nd and Carondolet; my grandfather was a supervisor at the plant many years ago. Now back to St. Florian...if you need the address or phone number just let me know and I will be happy to get it for you. And yes, Hegewisch was an ALL Polish neighborhood at one time. What other info can I help you with?