PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Thank you Dave, Sophia, and Marcel!

dnowicki — Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:59 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:59 pm

Bagbabe53 wrote:

I will look into both Cewkow and Cieszanow. One of those I think is the "hot ticket."

Hi Bonnie,

If you’ve not seen Frank’s arrival manifest here is a link to it on the Ellis Island Site: https://heritage.statueofliberty.org/passenger-details/czoxMjoiMTA0NjY0MDUwMDUzIjs=/czo5OiJwYXNzZW5nZXIiOw==

The manifest has the village name Cewkow, Galicia. He appears as Franz on line 23. Attached is a screenshot of the pertinent portion of the manifest.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Thank you Dave, Sophia, and Marcel!

Bagbabe53 — Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:52 pm

Author: Bagbabe53

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 7:52 pm

I will look into both Cewkow and Cieszanow. One of those I think is the "hot ticket."

Re: POB Brick Wall: Cieszanów (Podkarpackie) or Ciechanow (Mazov

Sophia — Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:41 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:41 am

Great maps, Dave!
Bonnie, I want to add more information. I said earlier that it would be useful to know where the border was, with respect to Cieszanow, at the time of your grandfather's birth in 1885. However, it would be more important to know where the border was at the time he was providing information on his naturalization intention papers. (As an aside, you see this in census records. According to the instructions given to census takers, you had to provide the country of your birth as it stood at the time the census was taken, which is why some Polish Americans would have "Austria" as their country of origin on the 1910 census but "Poland" on the 1930 census).
According to the account of the history of Cieszanow on wikipedia, for a period during WWI, it was held by the Russians. Later, it was part of interwar Poland. Even though WWI ended on 11 November 1918, that was not the end of the fighting for Poles. Battles continued for a couple of years afterward to settle the borders. Depending on what information he had available to him, and what date he was filling in the form, Russia might have been the best answer to put on the form.
Best of luck in your search,
Sophia

Re: POB Brick Wall: Cieszanów (Podkarpackie) or Ciechanow (Mazov

dnowicki — Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:00 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 10:00 pm

Sophia wrote:

Hi,
I think you already figured it out, with your guess of Cieszanów. Yes, it is in wojewodztwo Podkarpackie which was in the old Austrian partition, but it is all of 6 miles from the border with wojewodztwo Lubelskie which was in the old Russian partition. Where exactly the line was, when he was born, would be worth exploring. Marcel may know.
In the document that you provided a link to, it does call his place of birth Russian Poland but it also acknowledges that he was renouncing his allegiance to the Austrian emperor and that fits with what you said you've always been told about him.
Sophia

Hi Sophia, Bonnie, & Marcel,

If you use Tarnogród and Bełżec as points of reference the border between Galicia (Austrian Partition) and the Kingdom of Poland (Russian Partition) meandered from West to East from just South of Tarnogród to just North of Bełżec. (Cf. The 3 attached maps.) Using the old maps together with a contemporary map and the reference points it should be possible to get a pretty good idea of the distance from Cieszanów to the border between the two partitions.

Have geographical fun!

Dave

Re: POB Brick Wall: Cieszanów (Podkarpackie) or Ciechanow (Mazov

Sophia — Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:27 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 7:27 pm

Hi,
I think you already figured it out, with your guess of Cieszanów. Yes, it is in wojewodztwo Podkarpackie which was in the old Austrian partition, but it is all of 6 miles from the border with wojewodztwo Lubelskie which was in the old Russian partition. Where exactly the line was, when he was born, would be worth exploring. Marcel may know.
In the document that you provided a link to, it does call his place of birth Russian Poland but it also acknowledges that he was renouncing his allegiance to the Austrian emperor and that fits with what you said you've always been told about him.
Sophia

It's a US document, but here it is the link for it:

Bagbabe53 — Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:21 pm

Author: Bagbabe53

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 4:21 pm

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QSQ-G9MJ-H9M9-T?i=176&cc=1987615&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3ACSCS-G96Z

Re: POB Brick Wall: Cieszanów (Podkarpackie) or Ciechanow (Mazov

marcelproust — Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:25 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Fri Jul 09, 2021 2:25 am

can You please show Us the document with the place that You can't read?

POB Brick Wall: Cieszanów (Podkarpackie) or Ciechanow (Mazov

Bagbabe53 — Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:17 pm

Author: Bagbabe53

Posted: Thu Jul 08, 2021 10:17 pm

My maternal grandfather, Frank (AKA Franz Duda) was born 16 November 1885 (though we were told 4 October 1885) to Gregory and Eva (maiden name UNK). They were Roman Catholic. He had several siblings, but I do not know all their names. Two sisters (one I believe was a Paulina) left for France, and his brother Michael immigrated to Brazil. After immigrating to the US in 1910, he sent for his fiancee, Katarzyna Mudlo, in 1911. They were married in Schnectady, NY in June of that year. They later settled in Toledo, OH.

We were always told the following:

Frank grew up in or near my grandmother’s POB, Stary Dzikow in Galicia, the Austrian partition (now Podkarpackie). On census records, his and my busia’s POBs sometimes read as “Austrian Poland.”

2. Frank served in the Austrian army and completed his conscription before coming to the US.

Now here's the problem:
I finally got a copy of his “intent” papers for naturalization, and here’s the rub—- his POB is given as “C_________w, Russian Poland.” With the old handwriting, it’s hard to read the name of the town. So I’m trying to figure this out. My Ancestry DNA shows some concentration in Mazovia, but I know some of that at least is my paternal side.

Could the clerk have misunderstood him and made a mistake?

Could the family have moved from the Russian partition to the Austrian one? (I think this is unlikely).

If anyone has any ideas about solving this problem, I would greatly appreciate hearing them.
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