PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:28 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 12:28 pm

Thank you Michael.

Re: Help Identify Record

Kmichael8 — Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:14 am

Author: Kmichael8

Posted: Wed Aug 18, 2021 9:14 am

Richard Kuzniak wrote:

I have looked at the Family Search records and I think the Podjeziorze record (see the attached photos) will be a good one to find as my mother's (Szachcinska) family lived there in the 20s and 30s. My question: how does the reference on the record - 10 Podjeziorze- help me locate records from the list? What does the 10 refer to? Thank you.

Hello Richard and Cynthia,

This book is the marriage register of the civil registry office from Gołańcz or Gollantsch for the year 1931. The list of villages included informs about the villages belonging to this civil registry office, hence you will find marriages from all this places in the register. The numbers are but sequence numbers without meaning content and you will have to scan the whole book to find an entry related to your family.

Best
Michael

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:42 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:42 pm

OMG. THANK YOU! This is the first piece of information relating to her work circumstance during the war. I am very grateful for this. I am feeling sadness but satisfaction.

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:19 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 11:19 pm

Bingo! This record is your mother! The name, birth date, and birth place all match.

I used a database called Kartenmeister to cross reference the Polish name of her Village, Chawlodno, to find the German name for it. Here is the result

German Name Kaltwasser 1944
Polish/Russian Name Chawlodno
Kreis/County Wongrowitz
German Province Posen
Today's Province Wielkopolskie
Location East 17°18' North 52°55'
Google Map Google Maps (Kaltwasser 1944)
Map Number 3069
Location Description This village/town is located 2.1 km and 187 degrees from Gollantsch, which is known today as Golancz
Lutheran Parish D
Remarks For additional information see: Chawlodno

Here is the link to the database entry:
http://kartenmeister.com/preview/City.asp?CitNum=91445

Also, attached is the actual handwritten record. You will see the handwriting is tough to make out, but it looks like “Kallwasser” that is the German name for Chawlodno.

The document doesn’t provide much info… perhaps her ID number. But it is her. Again, I believe the interpretation of it being marked as death or died is a scribal error or interpretation error.

Cynthia

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:44 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:44 pm

The birthplace as shown is also suspect (Birth Place: ?Wasser). My mother was born in Chawlodno near Golancz. But I agree that the coincidence is a bit much. Thank you!

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:30 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:30 pm

Hi Richard,

I will post the actual document for the so called death record I found later this week. I am not convinced it is a death record. It comes from a handwritten list of foreign workers given to the Arolsen archives by the Austrian Red Cross in 1973. There is no mention of a death indication in the record itself unless it is a mysterious code letter in the last column. It is too much of a coincidence that the name and birth date should be exactly the same. I suggest you hold onto it after I post it until we can hopefully validate or disprove it at some point. Sometimes the summaries generated by Ancestry have mistakes.

Cynthia

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:01 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:01 pm

Thank you Cynthia. I did not have those passenger lists. I do have information that I requested from Canadian government about our immigration. My father arrived in Canada on April 23, 1949 on the SS Nea Hellas (from Naples!) and my mother and I on Nov. 3, 1949 on the SS Samaria. I recall my mother telling me I was very sick on the crossing. It is a bit of a mystery why my father had to come via Naples, not from any Northern European port. The Stanislawa Kuzniak referenced in the death notice is not my mother but, bizarrely, she has the same birth date. Possibly a mix up. So much more to research!

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:43 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:43 pm

oh, here is the Stanislawa Szachcinska death record. I reached the max on number of attachments allowed in previous post.

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:41 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 6:41 pm

Hi Richard,

Well, I found a couple of new documents in Ancestry. The docs are from the Arolsen archives but the search engine in Ancestry is much easier to use. That being said, you may already have these.

First, there is the passenger list for Stanislawa Kuzniak and you, Richard Kuzniak, traveling to Canada, departing 17, Nov, 1949. Attached is a header page and also the page with her entry. I am also including a pdf file of the summary from Ancestry.

Second, there is the passenger list for Victor Kuzniak (spelled Vittor in the list) traveling to Canada, departing Salzburg 11 Apr 1949. However, the Ancestry summary has him departing from a resettlement camp in Naples, Italy!! Also, his passenger list is in the middle of a large Arolsen file labeled Naples, Italy. Attached is the page with his entry. I tried to find the first page for this ship manifest to get the headers, but I couldn't find it in the large file.

Third, the only document I found for Stanislawa Szachcinska is also from the Arolsen archives. It is summarized as a death record. This is very likely another person with the same name, but I am attaching the summary so you can see it.

More pieces to the puzzle that raise more questions...
Cynthia

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:32 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:32 pm

Thank you Cynthia. I will pursue these suggestions. I will also see if I can get my birth record from Salzburg. This is quite an adventure!

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:20 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:20 pm

Hello Richard,

Some thoughts to consider as you continue your search:

1. It is important when connecting with organizations such as the UN or Red Cross that you tell them the last documented location for Wiktor - Ebensee. That is his place of liberation. From there he was processed as a displaced person.

2. After the liberation of Ebensee in May, 1945, the concentration camp was converted into a DP Camp. It is possible that Wiktor spent a few weeks or months at Ebensee before being transported.

3. This website called DP Camps has a wealth of information not only in its posted pages, but also in the comments people have written. Here is the link to the home page: http://www.dpcamps.org/

There is a page for Ebensee DP camp. There is also a list of all DP camps in Austria by alphabetical order. For Hellbrunn it is written:

Hellbrunn - reception centre, Land Salzburg; US zone; UNRRA Team 316, mit Alters- & Kinder [with elders and children]; Poles; See Salzburg for archives. (Do not confuse with Hellbrunn, Germany); on Hellbrunnstrasse; Salzburg-Süd;

...Hellbrunn, Main, Land Salzburg (U.S.)
...Hellbrunn, Aged unit, Land Salzburg (U.S.)
...Hellbrunn, Transit centre ...Hellbrunn, Youth Center, formerly St. Gilgon, Land Salzburg (U.S.)

4. Within the comments of these pages are stories and photos and also contact information for people in Austria such as: the director of the Ebensee Concentration Camp Memorial and for a local historian in Austria. There is also a comment in the Ebensee page that lists some possible locations where women were doing forced labor for the Nazis. That may be useful in tracking your mother's journey. These little clues are sprinkled throughout the comments in the pages. It may be worth it for you to read though them and possibly contact some of these folks directly if their information is still current (some of the posts are from many years ago).

5. A working theory for your father: His last place of imprisonment was Ebensee (documented). He was liberated in May, 1945 at Ebensee. He may have stayed on at Ebensee after the war for a few weeks or months gaining strength before he was transferred to Hellbrunn which was a transit center in Salzburg (note that Ebensee is about 1 hour drive from Salzburg). As a transit center, Hellbrunn would be occupied by people from many different local camps. That is likely where he met your mother and married before they were both transported to Canada. Hellbrunn was and is a district of Salzburg. So, another area to look for clues would be to contact the Catholic Church in Hellbrunn district of Salzburg for their marriage record, or the civil registration office for marriage records for Salzburg.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:08 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 2:08 pm

Cynthia, could you do me a favour and just check very quickly if there is any information on my mother Stanislawa Szachcinska (m. Kuzniak) in the Ancestry records? Forced labour and then Hellbrunn DP camp. Thank you!

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:02 pm

Thank you Cynthia, for all your help. My dad's been gone 67 years now. He died as a young man from failed health acquired in his camp stays. It is only now as an old(er) man that I realize what I lost. I have 2 grown sons and a 3 year old granddaughter. I want to remember for them. You are right, we must never forget. Please take care.

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:40 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 10:40 am

Hello Richard,

I feel emotional just doing the research and reading the history, so I can only imagine how it must feel for you as you discover the journey of your parent’s suffering. Yet, we must remember, we must be witnesses, we must preserve the memory. That is why I try to help descendants of the victims to find answers whenever I can.

As to your question of why 3 camps, I can only tell you my opinion based upon what I have read regarding the history of these camps during that time.

1. There was constant movement among the Nazi camps in order to make room for more prisoners and to distribute the labor where needed for their war machine. This was especially true toward the end of the war. As the Allies closed in on a camp, the Nazis would often move those still capable of working to other labor camps.

2. The details profiling the young men and teenagers capable of work were kept in punched data cards called Hollerith coding. This enabled the slave labor force to be centrally managed in Berlin. It seems your father was likely in this category and was moved like a cog in a wheel wherever the labor was needed to support the war machine.

I know such details are not easy to hear or read. Please take care of yourself as you continue your research.

Regards,
Cynthia

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:02 am

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Tue Aug 17, 2021 12:02 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Here is Ebensee Polish Prisoner camp ID number title page and page with entry for Wiktor. I noticed that his prisoner number is different on different document - it might be a typing error on the part of the clerk reading the 1 as a 7.

I think 112316 is correct. I remember my dad had that tattooed on his forearm. He sometimes wore a bandaid over it to cover it up.

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:56 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:56 pm

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Here is the title page for list of former prisoners of Ebensee assigned identity cards (I think this is post liberation) and the page with Wiktor's name.

Thank you for searching Ancestry.com. I belong to My Heritage and had DNA done there and 23 and Me but I haven’t dealt with Ancestry. I am somewhat curious as to why my father wound up in 3 different concentration camps.
Is your own research going well?

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:09 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:09 pm

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Hi Richard,

It is difficult to answer your question without seeing the book. Please post the link so we can look through the book to see how it is organized. Then we may be able to answer your question.

cynthia

The URL IS

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSPZ-P9ZW-2?mode=g&cat=36630

What is was hoping to find was a marriage record for one of my mother’s two sisters (Szachcinska) but this goes just to 1940 and they may have married a little past that date. I will look through it manually.

Re: Help Identify Record

Richard Kuzniak — Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:00 pm

Author: Richard Kuzniak

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 11:00 pm

Thank you Cynthia. This is very emotional for me but I am determined to piece together my parents' history during the war. I emailed the UN contact address to see if there are name files of Hellbrunn residents.

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:46 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:46 pm

Here is the title page for list of former prisoners of Ebensee assigned identity cards (I think this is post liberation) and the page with Wiktor's name.

Re: Help Identify Record

mcdonald0517 — Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:44 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:44 pm

Here is Ebensee Polish Prisoner camp ID number title page and page with entry for Wiktor. I noticed that his prisoner number is different on different document - it might be a typing error on the part of the clerk reading the 1 as a 7.