PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Clarification of relationship: 'brata ciotecznego'

Henry Soszynski — Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 am

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 3:56 am

dnowicki wrote:

Henry Soszynski wrote:

Greetings all,
The first of the two witnesses mentioned in the attached record #18 is described as 'brata ciotecznego' of the father of the child. Google unhelpfully translates this as 'cousin', which is correct but unadequate. We therefore know that Wincenty Lasota is cousin of Marcin Sajnóg, but is there a fuller explanation of the relationship?

TIA
Cheers, Henry

Hi Henry,

A brat cioteczny is a cousin who is the son of the sister of the person’s mother. In Polish there are specific terms which describe aunts, uncles and cousins based on the relationship between the individual and and his or hers brother or sister. A couple of examples...your uncle who is your father's brother is your stryj whereas your uncle who is your mother's brother is your wuj. Your mother's sister is your ciotka and hence the brat cioteczny.
If I remember correctly, Family Search has a chart which shows the various relationships. If I can remember where it is on their site I'll post the link at a later time.
Hope this answers your question.
All the best,
Dave

Hello Dave and marcelproust,
Thanks for the clarification, it fully explains the relationship, including the situation where the mother of child1 is the sister of the father of child2, even though the terminology is the same in both cases. Also, Google translate isn't much help either, e.g. it translated 'szwagier stawaiącego' as sister-in-law in a different record, also from 1838.

Thanks again,
Cheers,
Henry

Re: Clarification of relationship: 'brata ciotecznego'

marcelproust — Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:18 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Fri Aug 27, 2021 12:18 am

dnowicki wrote:

Henry Soszynski wrote:

Hi Henry,

A brat cioteczny is a cousin who is the son of the sister of the person’s mother. In Polish there are specific terms which describe aunts, uncles and cousins based on the relationship between the individual and and his or hers brother or sister. A couple of examples...your uncle who is your father's brother is your stryj whereas your uncle who is your mother's brother is your wuj. Your mother's sister is your ciotka and hence the brat cioteczny.

If I remember correctly, Family Search has a chart which shows the various relationships. If I can remember where it is on their site I'll post the link at a later time.

Hope this answers your question.

All the best,

Dave

Dear Dave,

I would like to add that this term needs some additional explanation. The meaning of the term varies from time to time and is also sometimes misused in modern language. It is generally a family relationship defined by the English term: 1st cousin.
However, it should be noted that the term brat cioteczny (cioteczny: adjective from the word ciocia: aunt) was also used for a someone's father's sister's son.

Re: Clarification of relationship: 'brata ciotecznego'

dnowicki — Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:09 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 8:09 pm

Henry Soszynski wrote:

Hi Henry,

A brat cioteczny is a cousin who is the son of the sister of the person’s mother. In Polish there are specific terms which describe aunts, uncles and cousins based on the relationship between the individual and and his or hers brother or sister. A couple of examples...your uncle who is your father's brother is your stryj whereas your uncle who is your mother's brother is your wuj. Your mother's sister is your ciotka and hence the brat cioteczny.

If I remember correctly, Family Search has a chart which shows the various relationships. If I can remember where it is on their site I'll post the link at a later time.

Hope this answers your question.

All the best,

Dave

Clarification of relationship: 'brata ciotecznego'

Henry Soszynski — Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:27 pm

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Thu Aug 26, 2021 6:27 pm

Greetings all,
The first of the two witnesses mentioned in the attached record #18 is described as 'brata ciotecznego' of the father of the child. Google unhelpfully translates this as 'cousin', which is correct but unadequate. We therefore know that Wincenty Lasota is cousin of Marcin Sajnóg, but is there a fuller explanation of the relationship?

TIA
Cheers, Henry