PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

KaminskiJL — Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:50 am

Author: KaminskiJL

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2022 10:50 am

Marcel, I am sorry for my delay. Yes I received your translations. Thank you! I have never used PayPal before so I am in the midst of setting up an account. I will also need your Paypal account information so I can complete the transaction.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:21 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2022 1:21 am

KaminskiJL wrote:

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?

Despite the translations I have made for you and the many messages I have sent you, you did not react in any way.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:41 pm

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Aug 17, 2022 4:41 pm

Did You get my translations????

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:26 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 3:26 am

dnowicki wrote:

Sophia wrote:

marcelproust wrote:

Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?

Hi Marcel,
On the ship manifest, Ewa Esa was 17 and she was single. That was in July 1904, so the birth record you found from December 1886 matches perfectly.
Sophia

Hi Marcel & Sophia,

Everything aligns for the record being the correct one for Ewa. Gójsk (19th Century spelling: Gujsk) was the parish for Szczerby according to the Słownik geograficzny, The surname Esa is found under several spellings as is demonstrated by the index from Geneteka posted by Monika. That index contains the names of 2 of Ewa’s siblings. Their death records are attached along with their birth records. Also attached is the birth record of Ewa’s sibling Waleria, who married in 1913.

All this and Monika’s latest post should give a good jump start to further research.

All the best,

Dave

Here are my translations:

Nr 26
Szczerby

It happened in the village of Gójsk, on February 6th/18th, 1894, at 2 p.m.
Appeared Antoni Ess, a shoemaker from Szczerby, 37 years old, in the presence of Józef Czachorowski, a peasant from Gójsk, 42 years old and Jan Dulkowski, son of a peasant from Szczerby, 21 years old, and presented Us a female infant child, informing that the child was born in the village of Szczerby, on 2nd/14th day of the current month and year, at 1 p.m., to his legal wife, Marianna nee tyburska, 37 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held today by the undersigned priest, Jan Świderski, the child was given the name: Waleria and the godparents were: Jan Dulkowski and Anna tyburska.
This act was read to the present, who all were illiterate, and it was signed by Us only.Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the Gójsk parish, serving as Civil Registrar.

Right margin note: Waleria Ess married Jan Kujawski in the parish church of Rogowo, on May 2nd/14th, 1913. This note was made by the priest Wojciech Bugajczyk, the administrator of the Gójsk parish.

________________

Nr 161
Szczerby

It happened in the village of Gójsk, on September 15th/27th, 1891, at 2 p.m..
Appeared Antoni Ess, a shoemaker from Szczerby, 33 years old, in the presence of Józef Jastrzębski, a peasant 28 years old and Jan Małkowski, a daylaborer, 36 years old, both from the village of Cząpienica and presented Us a female infant child, informing that the child was born on the 2nd/14th day of the current month and year, at 8 p.m., in the village of Szczerby, to his legal wife, Marianna nee Tyburska, 33 years old.
At The holy Baptism, held on the 3rd/15th day of the current month and year, by the priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the parish of Gójsk, the child was given the name: Franciszka, and the godparents were: Józef tyburski and Anna topolewska.
The reason for the delay in the entry of this birth record was the mother's illness.
This act was read to the illiterate present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the parish of Gójsk, serving as Civil Registrar.

______________

Nr 27
Szczerby

It happened in the village of Gójsk, on January 29th/February 10th, 1890, at 10 a.m.
Appeared Antoni Ess, a shoemaker from Szczerby, 32 years old, in the presence of Stanisław Żołnowski from the village of Cząpienica, 23 years old and Józef Orzechowski, from the village of Czumsk, 28 years old, both peasants, and presented Us a male infant child, informing that the child was born in the village of Szczerby, on January 9th/21st of the current year, at 2 p.m., to his legal wife, Marianna nee Tyburska, 31 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held on January 14th/26th of the current year, by the priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the parish of Gójsk, the child was given the name: Stanisław and the godparents were: Adam Sendlewski and Franciszka Tyburska.
The reason the entry of this record was delayed was due to the father's activities.

This act was read to the illiterate present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the parish of Gójsk, serving as Civil Registrar.

____________

Nr 276
Szczerby

It happened in the village of Gójsk, on August 26th/September 7th, 1892, at 3 p.m.
Appeared: Andrzej Dulkowski, a peasant, 50 years old and Jan Wojewódzki, a daylaborer, 42 years old, both from Szczerby and they declared that yesterday, at 8 p.m., died in Szczerby: Franciszka, 11 months and 3 weeks old, a child who was born in Szczerby, daughter of the peasants from Szczerby: Antonii and MArianna nee Tyburska, the Ess spouses.
After convinced myself about the death of Franciszka Ess this act was read to the the illiterate present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the Gójsk parish, serving as Civil Registrar.

_________

Nr 69
Szczerby

It happened in the village of Gójsk, on June 8th/20th, 1890, at 8 a.m.
Appeared: Antoni Ess, living on his own funds, 32 years old and Stanisław Krzyczkowski, a peasant from the village of Grabówiec, 30 years old, and they declared, that on the day before yesterday, at 3 p.m., died in Szczerby: Stanisław, 5 months and 2 weeks old, who was born in Szczerby, son of the aforementioned Antoni and Marianna nee Tyburska, the Ess spouses from Szczerby.
After convinced myself about the death of Stanisław Ess this act was read to the illiterate present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the parish of Gójsk, serving as Civil Registrar.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:37 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Thu Aug 11, 2022 2:37 am

KaminskiJL wrote:

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?

it is up to You, i will apreciate the donation.
yes, i will provide the translations.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

dnowicki — Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:14 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 6:14 pm

KaminskiJL wrote:

I agree with both of you that the record you found for Eva Esa is the correct record. Thank you all for your effort! I was told since a boy that in English her surname was Hess, and that Esa was the Polish translation of the Hess surname. The only thing on your record that gave me pause was the surname of her mother, Tyburska, being different from the maiden name of her mother, Bubulska, on the U.S. marriage record. However, several times during my research I have found inconsistencies between information provided by my ancestors and the actual information. An example would be my grandfather's immigration ship. He stated on his naturalization application that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Carmainia. My research showed that the S.S. Carmainia never ported in Philadelphia. Ultimately I found that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Main. Apparently Main and Carmania were close enough for him. The attitude of those that immigrated was often "forget about the past, live for the present". Nice to think about in principle, but exceedingly hard to follow from a research point of view.

Again, thanks to all of you for this research! I will correct my records and family tree to reflect her mother's correct maiden name, and her place of birth.

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?

Hi,

Attached is a doc which you may find useful and links to the 1910 & 1920 Federal Census returns. 1910 Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33S7-9RKH-J5Q?i=56&cc=1727033&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMGZ1-WX2
1920 Census: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GRXK-H8W?i=17&cc=1488411&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3AMXSV-T8Q

If you want to be doubly certain about the maiden name of Eva’s mother a good source of data would be either of her ecclesiastical marriage records. There were two RC Polish parishes in Shenandoah, St. Casimir & St. Stanislaus, which have merged with several other parishes into the new parish of Divine Mercy. Here is a link to the parish: https://www.dmparish.com/ If you decide to contact the parish be sure to request a photo copy or a scan of the appropriate marriage register.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

KaminskiJL — Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am

Author: KaminskiJL

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 11:12 am

I agree with both of you that the record you found for Eva Esa is the correct record. Thank you all for your effort! I was told since a boy that in English her surname was Hess, and that Esa was the Polish translation of the Hess surname. The only thing on your record that gave me pause was the surname of her mother, Tyburska, being different from the maiden name of her mother, Bubulska, on the U.S. marriage record. However, several times during my research I have found inconsistencies between information provided by my ancestors and the actual information. An example would be my grandfather's immigration ship. He stated on his naturalization application that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Carmainia. My research showed that the S.S. Carmainia never ported in Philadelphia. Ultimately I found that he arrived in Philadelphia aboard the S.S. Main. Apparently Main and Carmania were close enough for him. The attitude of those that immigrated was often "forget about the past, live for the present". Nice to think about in principle, but exceedingly hard to follow from a research point of view.

Again, thanks to all of you for this research! I will correct my records and family tree to reflect her mother's correct maiden name, and her place of birth.

To Marcel, what would you think would be an acceptable payment for your efforts translating the birth record, and would you be interested in translating the other records provided in this thread?

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:58 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 8:58 am

Sophia wrote:

KaminskiJL wrote:

Sorry, but I am new to working on a forum...
Eva was a practicing catholic. Esa was her maiden name. I am attaching a copy of her marriage license application to her second husband (my grandfather). On this application her surname is Maraga (actually Mroga). She was a widow. The only thing that I know of her parents is written on this application; father's name was Anthony, mother's name was Mary Bubulska. In 1904 when she immigrated she was listed on the passenger manifest as age 17.

Hi,
In today's world, we are used to having official pieces of I.D., and if the spelling on one does not match the spelling on another, it is a headache. In the time of your Ewa's birth, the situation was rather different. Record keepers did not ask to see a piece of I.D. Rather, at her baptism, her Polish-speaking father spoke his name to a Polish priest who, because of the rules imposed by the tsar, was forced to write the record in Russian. Not only is it a different language, but it uses a different alphabet. The sentences get translated, but the names get transliterated. So here you have the situation in which a name was transliterated from the Latin alphabet of Polish to the cyrillic alphabet of Russian, and now you have Geneteka indexers and our good friend Marcel transliterating that Russian back to Polish. It is not unusual to have some variations in the spelling. (Fast forward to 2022. Here is an entry from Wikipedia: "Volodymyr Oleksandrovych Zelenskyy (born 25 January 1978), also transliterated as Zelensky or Zelenskiy, is a Ukrainian politician and former comedian actor who has served as the sixth and current president of Ukraine since 2019." Three different spellings of his name!)
This is my long-winded way of saying that those of us in this thread are interpreting the name Esa to be the same as Hes. It is also showing up as Essa in the indexed records.
As Marcel wrote out the birth record, you see the father as Antoni Hes. That is your Anthony Esa. The mother is Marianna, nee Tyburska. The marriage record you posted shows Mary Cubulska. Close enough, in my opinion, given that you know Mroga was written as Maraga. The Czachorowska connection, as Monika so nicely showed, is convincing to me, as well.
Does this help your thinking?
Sophia

I am 99% sure I have found the right birth record.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

Sophia — Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:58 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Aug 10, 2022 4:58 am

KaminskiJL wrote:

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

KaminskiJL — Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:49 pm

Author: KaminskiJL

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 8:49 pm

Sorry, but I am new to working on a forum...
Eva was a practicing catholic. Esa was her maiden name. I am attaching a copy of her marriage license application to her second husband (my grandfather). On this application her surname is Maraga (actually Mroga). She was a widow. The only thing that I know of her parents is written on this application; father's name was Anthony, mother's name was Mary Bubulska. In 1904 when she immigrated she was listed on the passenger manifest as age 17.

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

dnowicki — Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 6:14 am

Sophia wrote:

marcelproust wrote:

Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?

Hi Marcel,
On the ship manifest, Ewa Esa was 17 and she was single. That was in July 1904, so the birth record you found from December 1886 matches perfectly.
Sophia

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

mm_88 — Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:08 am

Author: mm_88

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 5:08 am

Yes, and there are also birth records for Bronisława, Józef and Aniela Czachorowska (Ewa's godmother) - they were siblings. And there are so many things to discover with those scans for Hes and Tyburska families!

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

Sophia — Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:31 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 4:31 am

marcelproust wrote:

Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?

Hi Marcel,
On the ship manifest, Ewa Esa was 17 and she was single. That was in July 1904, so the birth record you found from December 1886 matches perfectly.
Sophia

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

marcelproust — Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:46 am

Author: marcelproust

Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2022 3:46 am

KaminskiJL wrote:

Hi Sophia,
After doing a little handwriting detective work I believe it is possible that Szczerby was written down as Szczerley. I went back to her passenger manifest and did a little handwriting comparison. I looked at the Szczerley entry on her manifest line and compared it to several of the "Hebrew" entries in the Race or People column of the manifest. Whoever did the writing had a peculiar way of writing the lower case "b" such that it appears as a lower case "le". I think that this could easily have been mis-transposed as "Szczerley" when it was acually written in the manifest as "Szczerby". I suppose the only way to confirm would be to find some record of her surname in an official document in the village. I will try to pursue this.
Thank you so much for your help!

Can you tell us what religion was Ewa?
Esa was her marriage or maiden surname?
What esle you can tell us about Ewa?
How old was Ewa in 1904?
Do You know Ewa's parents?

I think I found a birth record of a person names Ewa Hes in the Gójsk parish, in the village of Szczerby in the year of 1886. By the way. i live 9 kilometers far from Gójsk.
Please notice my translation, the surname Czachorowska appears.

Szczerby
269

It happened in the village of Gójsk, om November 24th/December 6th, 1886, at 3 p.m.
ppeared Antoni Hes, a shoemaker from Szczerby, 28 years old, in the presence of Tomasz Chojnacki, a farmer from the village of Szczutowo, 30 years old and Michał Dołkowski, a daylaborer from the village of Hermanów, 29 years old, and presented Us a female infant child, informing that the child was born on November 19th/December 1st of the current year, at 10 p.m., in the village of Szczerby, to his legal wife: Marianna nee Tyburska, 28 years old.
At the Holy Baptism, held today by the priest Jan Świderski, the child was given the name: Ewa, and the godparents were:Jan Parulski and Aniela Czachorowska.
This act was read to the illiterarte present and it was signed by Us only.

Priest Jan Świderski, the administrator of the Gójsk parish, serving as Civil Registrar.

Here is the village of Szczerby:
https://goo.gl/maps/Anwevcu3yvskE7cLA

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

mm_88 — Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm

Author: mm_88

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:41 pm

Hi,
I think that Sophia is right and Szczerby in gmina Rogowo is the village you are looking for.
In Słownik Geograficzny that Sophia linked you can find that the parish for Szczerby is Gujsk (Gójsk) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B3jsk

Ewa Esa was travelling with Bronisława Czachorowska to her cousin Józef Czachorowski. In Geneteka you can see that both surnames - Essa/Ess and Czachorowski - appears in Gójsk and in nearby parishes.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=eng&bdm=D&w=07mz&rid=3422&search_lastname=es*&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&ordertable=

Good luck!

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

Sophia — Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:25 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 4:25 pm

KaminskiJL wrote:

You are most welcome!
I see what you mean with the "b" in Hebrew. So Szczerby may well be correct.
I don't want you to think I necessarily picked the right one of the 3 Szczerby entries in the Slownik Geograficzny, though. In fact, the other 2 are more likely to have been in the Russian Partition.
Specifically, it lists a Szczerby in Powiat Dzisienski, Gmina Plissa and another in Powiat Pruzanski, Gmina Horodeczna.
Sophia

Note added on Tuesday morning: I can see from the birth/baptism record that Marcel posted, which is written in Russian, that the Szczerby in Gmina Rogowa was definitely in the Russian partition. So you can disregard my suggestion here to look at the other two Sczcerby's (Gmina Plissa and Gmina Horodeczna).
Sophia

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

KaminskiJL — Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 pm

Author: KaminskiJL

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 3:31 pm

Hi Sophia,
After doing a little handwriting detective work I believe it is possible that Szczerby was written down as Szczerley. I went back to her passenger manifest and did a little handwriting comparison. I looked at the Szczerley entry on her manifest line and compared it to several of the "Hebrew" entries in the Race or People column of the manifest. Whoever did the writing had a peculiar way of writing the lower case "b" such that it appears as a lower case "le". I think that this could easily have been mis-transposed as "Szczerley" when it was acually written in the manifest as "Szczerby". I suppose the only way to confirm would be to find some record of her surname in an official document in the village. I will try to pursue this.
Thank you so much for your help!

Re: Szczerley, Poland?

Sophia — Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:07 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 1:07 pm

KaminskiJL wrote:

I am trying to locate the town/village that my grandmother, Eva Esa, immigrated from in 1904. Her passenger record states that she immigrated aboard the S.S. Noordland from Liverpool on July 6, 1904, arriving in the port of Philadelphia on July 18, 1904. The record further states that she was listed as Polish, but her last residence was Szczerley Russia. I can find no information on the town, so I don't know if it was in Poland or Russia. Any help would be appreciated.

Hi,
I looked at the manifest:
https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:33SQ-GP18-5JG?i=309&cc=1921481&personaUrl=%2Fark%3A%2F61903%2F1%3A1%3A23QV-GSR
There are a surprising number of places in Poland that begin with the letters "Szczer....." but none in which the next letter is an ""L."
If it is just a handwriting issue, then perhaps the "LE" in your "Sczcerley" is actually a "B" by which I mean perhaps the place is Szczerby. And again, there is more than one of these!
Take a look at this page from Slownik Geograficzny:
http://dir.icm.edu.pl/pl/Slownik_geograficzny/Tom_XI/849
The first one listed there says it is in the gmina (administrative district) of Szczutowo.
When I look at the villages listed today as belonging to that gmina, Szczerby is not listed; however, in the neighboring gmina of Rogowo, a Szczerby is listed among the villages, so perhaps the boundaries of these gminas changed over time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gmina_Rogowo,_Rypin_County
You can see it on googlemaps, southeast of Rypin.
What do you think?
Sophia

Note: edited for spelling. The town is spelled SZCZERBY and I typed it wrong a few times in the original version of this post.
Sophia

Szczerley, Poland?

KaminskiJL — Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:16 am

Author: KaminskiJL

Posted: Mon Aug 08, 2022 11:16 am

I am trying to locate the town/village that my grandmother, Eva Esa, immigrated from in 1904. Her passenger record states that she immigrated aboard the S.S. Noordland from Liverpool on July 6, 1904, arriving in the port of Philadelphia on July 18, 1904. The record further states that she was listed as Polish, but her last residence was Szczerley Russia. I can find no information on the town, so I don't know if it was in Poland or Russia. Any help would be appreciated.