PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Old Polish contradiction in translations

BarbOslo — Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:14 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 2:14 pm

Hi,
It is noted that parents of Szyndla Łask nee Rayca were from the city of Płońsk. They were 80 years old or older in 1824 so I think they were not alive at that time.

Regards,
-Barb

Re: Old Polish contradiction in translations

arielvfu — Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:12 pm

Author: arielvfu

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 12:12 pm

Thank you!
Is there any indication that her parents were alive in 1809 and 1824 or no reference such as RIP or equivalent?

All the best

BarbOslo wrote:

Hello,
The translation you provided is correct. But wrong birth month for Chaim Zelik. Not March but May. If you look at the top: “In the year of 1809, on June 1st …… and later “ ….. on March 29th…”

4. Chaim Zelik was born on May 29th, 1809 in Płońsk, a son of Abram Łask and Szyndla nee Rayca

109. Szyncha* Łask died on September 19 th, 1824 in Płońsk, a daughter of Chaym Rayca and Rajca nee Szmul
*Szyndla – typo, she is the mother of Chaim Zelik and wife of Abram (see above)

Here is my interpretation of your question:

Szmul can be both first and last name.

First name Szmul is an abbreviation of Samuel.

Surname Szmul – over 1700 have that surname according to Genetyka. Over 550 in Mazowieckie, to which Plonsk belongs.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=Szmul&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1

The same applies to Rayca / Rajca. Check surnames at Genetyka.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=rayca&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=Rajca&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1

There are also Jewish girl names such as Rajca Rajcla Rajchla.

Best regards,
-Barb

Re: Old Polish contradiction in translations

BarbOslo — Tue Dec 26, 2023 11:55 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 11:55 am

Hello,
The translation you provided is correct. But wrong birth month for Chaim Zelik. Not March but May. If you look at the top: “In the year of 1809, on June 1st …… and later “ ….. on March 29th…”

4. Chaim Zelik was born on May 29th, 1809 in Płońsk, a son of Abram Łask and Szyndla nee Rayca

109. Szyncha* Łask died on September 19 th, 1824 in Płońsk, a daughter of Chaym Rayca and Rajca nee Szmul
*Szyndla – typo, she is the mother of Chaim Zelik and wife of Abram (see above)

Here is my interpretation of your question:

Szmul can be both first and last name.

First name Szmul is an abbreviation of Samuel.

Surname Szmul – over 1700 have that surname according to Genetyka. Over 550 in Mazowieckie, to which Plonsk belongs.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=Szmul&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1

The same applies to Rayca / Rajca. Check surnames at Genetyka.
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=rayca&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1
https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?search_lastname=Rajca&search_lastname2=&from_date=&to_date=&rpp1=&bdm=&w=&op=se&lang=eng&exac=1

There are also Jewish girl names such as Rajca Rajcla Rajchla.

Best regards,
-Barb

Old Polish contradiction in translations

arielvfu — Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:16 am

Author: arielvfu

Posted: Tue Dec 26, 2023 8:16 am

I attach two certificates that are contraindicating in regards to the surname (both from early 1800's)
We want to understand about Szayndla - what was the surname, who was her mother and father, if you can help with decipher it we will be appreciative
I attached the translations and the original Polish scans (the lines that are causing confusion are in BOLD)
To take in account in 1809 not all persons had surnames which makes it even more confusing

Nr 4

In the year of 1809, on June 1st, at 6 p.m., in front of Us, the Civil Registrar for the commune of Płońsk, located in the county of Wyszogród, in the department of Płock, appeared a jew, Abram, Lask, a trader, 40 years old, living in Płońsk and presented Us a male infant child, who was born in his house number 88 on March 29th of the current year and declared that the child was born to him and his wife, Szayndla nee Rayc [/ Rayec???], 35 years old and that his wish was to name the child Chaim Zelik.
After the above statement and the presentation of the child were made, in the presence of the jew, Herszek Zelik, a trader, 40 years old, living in Płońsk and Aleksander Goldflus, a clerk, 32 years old, living in Płońsk, this act was read and signed by the father of the child and the witnesses and Us.

AND

In the year of 1824, on September 20th, at 8 a.m., in front of Us, Jan Giełczewski, the Civil Registrar for the commune of Płońsk, located in the district and the voivodeship of Płock, appeared: the jews, Mosiek Goldman, ...[a profession that I can't decipher], 23 years old and Majer Batres??, a synagogue servant, 73 years old, both living in Płock and they declared Us that on the 19th day of the current month and year, at 6 p.m., died Szayncha Łask, a jew, 58 years old, wife of Abram Łask, the rabbi of the synagogue of the town of Sierpc, daughter of Chaym Ra and Rayca nee Szmul, both from Płońsk, a mother of:
-Majer Łask, 29 years old, who lives in Ciechanowiec,
-Hinda Goldman, married, 24 years old and Lewek Łask, 20 years old, both living in Płońsk,
-Chane Ruchel Hyel, married, 18 years old, living in the city of Warsaw,
-Chaim Zelik, 14 years old and Szmul, 12 years old, both living at his father's in the town of Sierpc.

Thanks alot