PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

BarbOslo — Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:43 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 10:43 am

Hi,
Yes, who is Marianna? Good question. I don't see her anywhere. The priests usually write the children in the order in which they were born. Then she would be the oldest of living sisters. The possibilities are the years 1847-48 and 1857-59.
Don't know if you are missing or forgot to write. Stanislaw died on December 15th, 1884 in Sadkowice parish Solec.
There wasn't much I could do to help.
-Barb

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

Henry Soszynski — Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:31 am

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Sun Jan 07, 2024 6:31 am

Hello Barb, thank you for going to all that trouble, I will intersperse my comments in order to maintain some continuity.

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi again,
I have studied church books from Solec. Many possibilities. I have written some notes.

These are safe points.
Marianna Kozak (born 1907) was your grandmother. She married Szczepan Lasota.

Marianna's parents were Stanislaw Kozak and Jozefa Dynarek. What do you know about Stanislaw and Jozefa? I found several named Stanislaw Kozak and Jozefa Dynarek.

"Stanislaw Kozak 1860-1921, born in Sadkowice in Pawlowice and Józefa Dynarek ca1862-1934, born in Sadkowice in Solec. My mother remembers her funeral.
SK, married Franciszka Dynarek in 1879, don't know when he married Józefa."

If Jozefa Kozak who died in 1934 was your great-grandmother, then she was born approx. 1860 (age estimated at the birth of the children). Stanislaw's year of birth will be approx. 1859. They married sometime after 1876. Jozefa's death record says she was a widow, but not by whom. The Stanislaw death record from 1921 states that he is survived by his wife, Jozefa nee Dynarek. Parents of the deceased are noted in both death records:
Kozak Jan (1835-1904) and Franciszka nee Malec (1839-)
Dynarek Tomasz (born 1815 - died in 1863, he was born on 16.12.1821 and died 3.6.1863) and Agnieszka Lichota (born 1826 - died on 23.7.1896). The death reported by Stanislaw Kozak. Agnieszka was likely born in 1824/1825, but the records apparently are all damaged. They married in 1843 in Pawlowice.

Only one Jozefa Dynarek has these parents. She was born on February 11, 1856. But it is true that, according to Genetyka, she died as a 3-year-old in 1859.

I found 8-9 children of Tomasz and Agnieszka: They all lived in Sadkowice in Solec.
1845 Jozef (he died before 1851) 3.8.1845-15.12.1848
1849 Tomasz (he died in 1866) 19.12.1849-28.6.1866
1851 Jozef (he died in 1921) 25.10.1851-22.3.1921
1853 Stanislaw 6.5.1853-1884
1855 Wiktoria - died before 1863 19.2.1855-14.4.1855
1856 Jozefa (she died in 1859) ? 11.2.1856-17.2.1859
1860 Katarzyna married to Sak in 1893 11.4.1860-lost? There appears to be no acceptable marriage listed anywhere for Katarzyna, but see further.
1862 Franciszek - (father 40 years, mother 26 years)? not listed at Tomasz's death and did not die before 1863 ? she was born on 12.10.1862, and married Stanislaw Kozak in 1879.
ab.1862 Franciszka married to Kozak in 1879 (see line above). NOTE. Franciszek (Male) is the gender as given in the records available on Genbaza, while Franciszka is female and is noted as such on the FamilySearch website, Image 126 of 659.
Franciszka 8.11.1864-22.1.1944 in Boiska, she married on 30th January 1893 in Solec to Marcin Sak 1872-1919 and had at least six children. I have no comment as I'm completely at a loss trying to describe this one.

Stanislaw Kozak married Franciszka Dynarek in 1879. She was then 17 years old. This means that she was born around 1862. But in 1862 the couple had a son Franciszek. Incorrect see above. Is the priest's name written incorrectly? Unfortunately I don't read Russian.

I don't think that Jozefa and Franciszka are the same person. This is because in the death record of Tomasz (1863) I could read that he was survived by his wife Agnieszka and children Tomasz, Jozef, Stanislaw, Marianna, Katarzyna i Jozefa. So it seems that Jozefa was still alive in 1863. Unlikely as it would refer to the one born in 1862 and likely equated to Franciszka. But who is Marianna?
That's what I managed today. Commendable effort, though I feel we are no closer to a consensus.

-Barb

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

BarbOslo — Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:51 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 6:51 pm

Hi again,
I have studied church books from Solec. Many possibilities. I have written some notes.

These are safe points.
Marianna Kozak (born 1907) was your grandmother. She married Szczepan Lasota.

Marianna's parents were Stanislaw Kozak and Jozefa Dynarek. What do you know about Stanislaw and Jozefa? I found several named Stanislaw Kozak and Jozefa Dynarek.
If Jozefa Kozak who died in 1934 was your great-grandmother, then she was born approx. 1860 (age estimated at the birth of the children). Stanislaw's year of birth will be approx. 1859. They married sometime after 1876. Jozefa's death record says she was a widow, but not by whom. The Stanislaw death record from 1921 states that he is survived by his wife, Jozefa nee Dynarek. Parents of the deceased are noted in both death records:
Kozak Jan and Franciszka nee Malec
Dynarek Tomasz (born 1815 - died in 1863) and Agnieszka Lichota (born 1826 - died in 1896). The death reported by Stanislaw Kozak.

Only one Jozefa Dynarek has these parents. She was born on February 11, 1856. But it is true that, according to Genetyka, she died as a 3-year-old in 1859.

I found 8-9 children of Tomasz and Agnieszka:
1845 Jozef (he died before 1851)
1849 Tomasz (he died in 1866)
1851 Jozef (he died in 1921)
1853 Stanislaw
1855 Wiktoria - died before 1863
1856 Jozefa (she died in 1859) ?
1860 Katarzyna married to Sak in 1893
1862 Franciszek - (father 40 years, mother 26 years)? , not listed at Tomasz's death and did not die before 1863 ?
ab.1862 Franciszka married to Kozak in 1879

Stanislaw Kozak married Franciszka Dynarek in 1879. She was then 17 years old. This means that she was born around 1862. But in 1862 the couple had a son Franciszek. Is the priest's name written incorrectly?
I don't think that Jozefa and Franciszka are the same person. This is because in the death record of Tomasz (1863) I could read that he was survived by his wife Agnieszka and children Tomasz, Jozef, Stanislaw, Marianna, Katarzyna i Jozefa. So it seems that Jozefa was still alive in 1863.
That's what I managed today.

-Barb

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

Henry Soszynski — Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:16 am

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 7:16 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi,
What is the name of your Stanislaw Kozak's wife and what do you know about her?

-Barb

Hi Barb, thanks for your interest. SK looks like he had two wives, both surnamed Dynarek, the first was Franciszka and the second Józefa. Most likely they were one and the same, though I have no evidence for this.
My great-grandmother was Józefa Dynarek, died in 1934 aged 78 years, though this is wrong, a mistake by either the Priest or the scibe/clerk. You can see in Clipboard01b.jpg that he gives her birth date as 11.2.1856, also wrong and also correct. There was a Józefa who was born 11.2.1856, but she died on 17.2.1859 in Sadkowice (Solec). She also couldn't be the mother of twins born in November 1907, one of whom was my grandmother.

This means that I can't find a Józefa in the right time and place, though there is a Franciszka, who married SK in 1879.
see attached

The couple had 8 or so children and their ages estimate their mother's birth years as 1862/1863. I can find neither a birth record in ca1862 nor a marriage record ca1884 for a Józefa.

There's a number of possibilities here but they all might be wrong. You can see why this gives me headaches. Also one birth record for a child of Józefa gives her mother's surname as Mlynarek and not Dynarek!

Look forward to your opinion regarding this potential mess.

Warm regards,
Henry

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

BarbOslo — Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:31 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Jan 06, 2024 4:31 am

Hi,
What is the name of your Stanislaw Kozak's wife and what do you know about her?

-Barb

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

Henry Soszynski — Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:23 pm

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 9:23 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Henry Soszynski wrote:

Greetings and Best Wishes to all,
I'm interested in a translation of the attached record. Just the vitals would be fine and only if the couple are Stanislaw Kozak and Marianna Mroczkowska.

Many thanks,
Henry

Happy new year, Henry! Is that couple your ancestors?

21. Kamień
It happened in Piotrawin, on October 30th / November 11th, 1877, at 10 a.m.

We make it known that in the presence of the witnesses, Marian Biernacki, 66 years old and Jan Górski, 60 years old, peasants from Kamień, a religious marriage was concluded on this day, between:
Stanisław Kozak, 23 years old, a son of Józef and Helena nee Spiwak, the spouses, who was born and living in Kolonia Solecka, a bachelor.
and
Marianna Mroczkowska, 17 years old, a daughter of Jan and Katarzyna nee Cywińska, who was born and living in Kamień with his parents, a miss.

Best regards,
-Barb

Hi Barb,
I do have a Stanisław Kozak as an ancestor and who has a wife who is difficuly to track down. I was hoping that this one might provide a clue or two. As it turns out SK2 (above) is a slightly older 2nd cousin of SK1 (my ancestor). So this turns out to be a serendipitous find. Thanks for making it possible and have a great year.

All the best,
Henry

Re: Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

BarbOslo — Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:00 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Fri Jan 05, 2024 2:00 pm

Henry Soszynski wrote:

Happy new year, Henry! Is that couple your ancestors?

21. Kamień
It happened in Piotrawin, on October 30th / November 11th, 1877, at 10 a.m.

We make it known that in the presence of the witnesses, Marian Biernacki, 66 years old and Jan Górski, 60 years old, peasants from Kamień, a religious marriage was concluded on this day, between:

Stanisław Kozak, 23 years old, a son of Józef and Helena nee Spiwak, the spouses, who was born and living in Kolonia Solecka, a bachelor.

and
Marianna Mroczkowska, 17 years old, a daughter of Jan and Katarzyna nee Cywińska, who was born and living in Kamień with his parents, a miss.

Best regards,
-Barb

Marriage in Piotrawin in 1877

Henry Soszynski — Tue Jan 02, 2024 6:43 pm

Author: Henry Soszynski

Posted: Tue Jan 02, 2024 6:43 pm

Greetings and Best Wishes to all,
I'm interested in a translation of the attached record. Just the vitals would be fine and only if the couple are Stanislaw Kozak and Marianna Mroczkowska.

Many thanks,
Henry