PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Help Request - Names

treich — Mon Jan 29, 2024 7:37 am

Author: treich

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 7:37 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi,
Do you have Paul's wedding record? It could confirm his mother's first name. Agree with Sophia about last names.

-Barb

Barb, thanks to your help, I have narrowed down Paul's marriages to three. His first marriage entry from 1818 is very brief and does not name parents for either bride and groom or their birthplaces. The next two marriage entries (1849 and 1862) name Christian Treichel and Eva Betcher as parents and birthplace as Rumunki Kleszczyn.

The witness names in his third marriage record (1862) and death record (1868) are the same. The witness names in the second marriage (1849) entry are different. These records and witnesses name the same parents and span almost twenty years.

If all the witness names were the same on all records, maybe there was a mistake. However, there are two other people giving the same information.

Sophia, I can take a look for the suggested Betcher alternatives. Thank you.

Re: Help Request - Names

BarbOslo — Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:48 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:48 am

Hi,
Do you have Paul's wedding record? It could confirm his mother's first name. Agree with Sophia about last names.

-Barb

Re: Help Request - Names

Sophia — Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:46 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 6:46 am

Just a thought... the family might have, at some point, decided to translate their name into Polish. Cooper, which is Böttcher in German, would be Bednarz in Polish. You might look around in the records to see if that surname was used at all.
Sophia

Re: Help Request - Names

Sophia — Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:36 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Jan 29, 2024 5:36 am

treich wrote:

I am asking for help resolving conflicting names in the records for my great-great-great-grandfather Paul Treichel.

His death record No. 21 https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&ar=20&zs=0393d&se=&sy=1868&kt=3&plik=019-021.jpg&x=349&y=2807&zoom=1 names Christian Treichel and Eva Betcher (Boettcher?) as his parents and his birthplace as Rumunki Kleszczyn.

The Treichel family seemed to record life events in Zale prior to about 1830. There is a birth record for Paul Treichel, born 16 January 1800 in Kleszczyn to Christian Treichel. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXF-5QY6-1?i=725&cat=235877. My problem is that the mother's name on this record is Catherine Bertnicz(?).

I have not yet found any records for Christian, Eva or Catherine to determine whether this birth record is for the same Paul.

I have seen very few records for Betcher in this area of Poland. Actually, I have only found one record mentioning another Betcher https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=20&zs=0393d&sy=1837&kt=2&plik=014.jpg#zoom=1&x=0&y=0. I have also been unable to find any records for Christian, "teacher in Rentwiny and later in Kleszczyn" in 1818.

Thank you.

Hi Treich,

Your records are showing a consistent surname with inconsistent spellings. Here is how I view it. The surname is Böttcher which is the German word for the occupation of cooper (barrel maker). The convention is that if you cannot type the "O" with an umlaut, you type "OE" instead, so the spelling Boettcher is also correct in German. If you would like to hear how this sounds in German, follow this link to Google Translate and click on the "listen" icon:

https://translate.google.com/?sl=de&tl=en&text=B%C3%B6ttcher%20&op=translate

Now, if you wanted to represent that sound in English, you would likely choose something like Betcher. If you want to represent it in Polish, the letters "trz" would not be my first choice but they give a reasonably similar sound and it appears to be the choice in the 1800 birth record for Paul Treichel. Listen to it here:

https://translate.google.com/?sl=pl&tl=de&text=Betrzer&op=translate

I hope that is helpful.

Regarding the mother's first name, it is entirely likely that the person who provided info for a death record could be mistaken in remembering the deceased's mother's first name. I would trust a birth record more. I would record it, for now as "probably Catherine (Polish: Katarzyna)."

Best regards,
Sophia

Help Request - Names

treich — Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:19 am

Author: treich

Posted: Sun Jan 28, 2024 11:19 am

I am asking for help resolving conflicting names in the records for my great-great-great-grandfather Paul Treichel.

His death record No. 21 https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&ar=20&zs=0393d&se=&sy=1868&kt=3&plik=019-021.jpg&x=349&y=2807&zoom=1 names Christian Treichel and Eva Betcher (Boettcher?) as his parents and his birthplace as Rumunki Kleszczyn.

The Treichel family seemed to record life events in Zale prior to about 1830. There is a birth record for Paul Treichel, born 16 January 1800 in Kleszczyn to Christian Treichel. https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CSXF-5QY6-1?i=725&cat=235877. My problem is that the mother's name on this record is Catherine Bertnicz(?).

I have not yet found any records for Christian, Eva or Catherine to determine whether this birth record is for the same Paul.

I have seen very few records for Betcher in this area of Poland. Actually, I have only found one record mentioning another Betcher https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/metryka.php?ar=20&zs=0393d&sy=1837&kt=2&plik=014.jpg#zoom=1&x=0&y=0. I have also been unable to find any records for Christian, "teacher in Rentwiny and later in Kleszczyn" in 1818.

Thank you.