PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:45 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 2:45 pm

Hello all, I'm hoping for some more help /advice here. In our search for all this information to try to prove our eligibility for polish citizenship, we hit a bit of a snag.

This is what we have been told so far:
To receive ID in Poland you needed to fill out a form. Those forms were kept in registry offices but beceuse of the old law they destroyed everything older than 1999. So this record will no longer exist.

Jan Wrobel was citizen of USA and have card of permanent residence card which was issued in Krakow.
We THINK he applied for Polish citizenship later though. But we cannot find any documentation.

We were also told:
We discussed with the archives and in past it worked this way that if someone wanted to be Polish citizen he just needed to contact the town hall and if someone applied they had a separate unit for this.

But in past those documents were treated as not important so often those documents were destroyed after they gave someone a decision. In Tarnów they destroyed personal files of all deceased people till 1998.

So the only document which they have about Jan Wrobel is his residency card and this document says that he was registered as citizen of USA.

This document works against him in terms of citizenship because it shows that Jan did not obtain polish citizenship.

Probably this document wasn't updated except new address. So I still believe that he received Polish citizenship but it looks that it will be impossible to prove it because documents were destroyed.

Any suggestions on how we may be able to find out if he received Polish citizenship at this point?[/u]

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Thu Oct 17, 2024 1:06 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 1:06 pm

I also received a reply today from the State Archives in Tarnow. And they confirmed that only this birth record exists.

-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:09 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Thu Oct 17, 2024 12:09 pm

I finally did get a response from the National archives in Poland and confirmed everything you stated @BarbOslo.

For me to be able to request his birth certificate that is a certified copy, I have to appoint a proxy to do it since I do not live there. I am going to use a company in Poland that I have been in touch with that can do this for me. It seems I cannot do it otherwise on my own from the US. I'm slowly making progress though!

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:07 am

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 10:07 am

Thank you so much for getting that confirmation! Do you by any chance know if there is some official copy of that baptism registry that needs to be obtained or simply providing a copy of this is sufficient? I assume to prove his birth, I need some official stamped version of that. I will do some research...

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Fri Oct 11, 2024 3:33 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Fri Oct 11, 2024 3:33 am

Hi Derek,
I called USC Ryglice today. They informed me that the first separate sivil register started in Ryglice in 1946.
Previously, the priest was also a person who had the function of civil registrar. This means that the only document was a document prepared by a priest who performed two functions. Documents from Ryglice were sent to Tarnów (Archiwum Narodowe w Krakowie Oddział w Tarnowie). Since it was also a church register, a copy can also be found in the diocesan archive in Tarnów.
It appears that the birth record I sent you is the only one that exists. As I said, I sent an email to AP Tarnow on Thursday, but will probably get the same answer.

Regards,
-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Wed Oct 09, 2024 5:19 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 5:19 pm

Thank you so much Barb! You have been so amazing! I look forward to hearing some hopeful news.

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:27 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 4:27 pm

As I wrote earlier today. When 80-100 years have passed, all documentation has been sent to the archives. Church books are sent to the Diocese or Archdiocese Archives. Civil documents (from USC) to the State Archives. I now sent an order to "Archiwum Narodowe w Krakowie Oddział w Tarnowie" and asked about the birth record of Jan. You have to expect that it will take time. I will call Ryglice USC on Friday to find out where the documents were sent.
-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Wed Oct 09, 2024 2:55 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 2:55 pm

Thanks, yes, I do remember that message and that is the baptism record, which is also great to have as that helped me know the exact date he was born (since apparently he had different dates listed in some documents).

But I need the actual birth certificate which is why I was trying to request this from the USC in Ryglice. I emailed that office and then they responded and told me I need to request it from the Archives in Tarnów:
https://ank.gov.pl/o-archiwum/organizacja-jednostki/struktura-organizacyjna/archiwum-narodowe-w-krakowie-oddzial-w-tarnowie/

I emailed the email address listed in that page several times but never got a response. Do you know if this is indeed the place that I could get the birth certificate from? If so, if you're able to cal them and ask for any forms I need to get the birth certificate that would be amazing. The only 'birth certificate' form they have on their site is the one I posted which is for registering a foreign birth certificate in the civil registry...which as you pointed out is not what I need.

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:47 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:47 pm

Jan Wrobel:
Posted: Tue Aug 13, 2024 2:03 pm
Do you need more than this? I will call USC Ryglice on Friday.

-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:05 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 1:05 pm

Sorry, maybe I didn't explain right. Yes, I am already in touch with USC Tarnow and they are getting me the marriage and death certificate, thanks to the act no. that you gave me previously. Thank you for that!

You are correct that I also need to get his birth certificate. I didn't see that you sent this, which post contained this? I can't seem to find it. USC Tarnow told me I need to get his birth certificate from USC Ryglice.

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:44 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:44 pm

Hello again,
It is no difficult matter for USC Tarnow. You need the wedding record from 1958, and the death record from 1983.
Jans was born on 26.01.1987 in Ryglice, so this book has probably already been sent to the State Archives. If USC Ryglice has made the registrations digital, it can be on the hard drive in Ryglice.

I have sent you act number on the two documents. It takes two seconds to find these in the register.
Jan married on 12.07.1958 in Tarnow - USC Tarnow act no. 289/58
Jan died on 22.06.1983 in Tarnow - USC Tarnow act no. 334/83

Do you need his birth certificate too? I have sent this one to you, and USC Tarnow does not need this one to put out the other two. So I don't understand why they told you to contact USC Ryglice.

-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:13 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 12:13 pm

Thank you for the reply!

Yes, I also noticed there is no way for me to get it online. I have been corresponding to the USC in Tarnow for a few weeks now and they said they have the Death certificate and Marriage certificate for my Great Grandfather, Joannes Wrobel. So they sent me a form to mail to them along with SWIFT account to send the payment for PLN33 for full copy.

However, they do not have the birth certificate and told me I have to contact the USC in Ryglice.

So this is interesting that this URL you sent states you can write to any registry office. That helps since I haven't been able to get any responses from that office.

If you don't mind calling that would be amazing and there is no rush so I completely understand if you cannot do it in the next few days. Thank you so much for the help!

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:01 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Oct 09, 2024 11:01 am

derekwrobel wrote:

Hello again, back here to see if there are any who may speak/read/undesrstand Polish. I got connected with the Tarnow office to be able to request the Death and Marriage (second marriage of Joannes Wrobel - My great grandfather) copies and will be mailing that out today.

However, for his birth certificate, they told me I have to request it from USC in Ryglice. I emailed them multiple times but never got any response. I searched their page myself and there is 1 form to download regarding birth certificates. It is stated as:
Wniosek o transkrypcje aktu urodzenia
Which Google Translate says means:
Birth Certificate Transcription Request.pdf

Download link: https://bip.malopolska.pl/api/files/2585391
However, if you download this, the form states at the top:
W N I O S E K
o sporządzenie w polskim rejestrze stanu cywilnego
zagranicznego aktu urodzenia (transkrypcja aktu urodzenia)

Which when I translate means:
APPLICATION
for the preparation of a foreign birth certificate (transcription of a birth certificate) in the Polish civil registry

So this seems to be a form to register a foreign birth certificate with the Polish civil registry (the other way around). So I don't think this is the right form. Any input from anyone? And if so, anyone know how I can find the form to request the birth certificate for someone in Ryglice?

Hi,
Exactly what you say. This document applies to someone who was born outside of Poland.

Here is all the information on how you can get a document from the Polish USC.

https://www.gov.pl/web/gov/uzyskaj-odpis-aktu-stanu-cywilnego-urodzenia-malzenstwa-zgonu

Everything written in Polish, but can be easily translated using Google.

If I understand it correctly, it is not possible to get it on-line for people who do not have a so-called E-ID (electronic) card that confirms your identity.

It seems that already registered document can be obtained/ordered at any USC in Poland. For example, if you were born in Warsaw, and your birth was registered in Warsaw, you can later collect the document in any city in Poland. But you must remember that in USC the documents are around 80-100 years old. Later the book is sent to the State Archives.

I don't live in Poland, but can call USC and ask how this can be done. Unfortunately I have no possibility to do it tomorrow.

-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:59 am

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Tue Oct 08, 2024 10:59 am

Hello again, back here to see if there are any who may speak/read/undesrstand Polish. I got connected with the Tarnow office to be able to request the Death and Marriage (second marriage of Joannes Wrobel - My great grandfather) copies and will be mailing that out today.

However, for his birth certificate, they told me I have to request it from USC in Ryglice. I emailed them multiple times but never got any response. I searched their page myself and there is 1 form to download regarding birth certificates. It is stated as:
Wniosek o transkrypcje aktu urodzenia
Which Google Translate says means:
Birth Certificate Transcription Request.pdf

Download link: https://bip.malopolska.pl/api/files/2585391
However, if you download this, the form states at the top:
W N I O S E K
o sporządzenie w polskim rejestrze stanu cywilnego
zagranicznego aktu urodzenia (transkrypcja aktu urodzenia)

Which when I translate means:
APPLICATION
for the preparation of a foreign birth certificate (transcription of a birth certificate) in the Polish civil registry

So this seems to be a form to register a foreign birth certificate with the Polish civil registry (the other way around). So I don't think this is the right form. Any input from anyone? And if so, anyone know how I can find the form to request the birth certificate for someone in Ryglice?

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:46 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:46 pm

Ah, I misunderstood, thanks for that, that really helped clarify and fill in further my tree here! Thank you so much!

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:39 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:39 pm

Ah ok, thanks, I should have known based on the last name. My tree only shows mother/father one side at a time! And I'm glad you found that since Ancestry was thinking Jan's great grandfather/mother were different names on his mother side:

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:38 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:38 pm

Here is the drawing.
B.

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:31 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 3:31 pm

derekwrobel wrote:

Nice, thank you. I'm trying to link this in my family tree. How did you link this to the Wrobel names? Is this the parents of Maria (1768-1831) that you found?

Hi,
No, Andrzej Siwek was the great-grandfather of Jan Wrobel (1897) on his mother's side. Will try to draw family connections, so you can see it better.

-Barb

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

derekwrobel — Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:26 pm

Author: derekwrobel

Posted: Sun Aug 18, 2024 1:26 pm

Nice, thank you. I'm trying to link this in my family tree. How did you link this to the Wrobel names? Is this the parents of Maria (1768-1831) that you found?

Re: Great Grandfather born in Ryglice 1897 - Polish or Austrian?

BarbOslo — Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:07 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Aug 17, 2024 5:07 pm

Hi.
I managed this today.
Wedding 1 - Siwek-Jekot (November 12th, 1827)
Wedding 2 - Siwek-Kaim (March 1st, 1848)

Everything (births, deaths and weddings) in Ryglice.

-Barb