PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:08 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 4:08 pm

So great to hear this. Hope your research is progressing.
-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:46 pm

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Mon Sep 30, 2024 3:46 pm

I did send a message, they had quite a lot informations about the uniform, the medal and the war itself. Very good suggestion that was !

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:49 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:49 am

Perhaps the museum of the January Uprising of 1863 can help?
https://www.kedainiutvic.lt/turystyka/pl/objects/muzeum-powstania-1863-roku
https://www.facebook.com/p/Muzeum-Powstania-Styczniowego-1863-1864-100062944733969/?locale=pl_PL

-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:26 am

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 10:26 am

BarbOslo wrote:

……and from your post

And for what you said about the correct date being on wedding document, you gave me a few messages above their wedding act from 1868, do you see it there ? (this one : https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&se=&sy=1868a&kt=2&plik=031-032.jpg&x=1652&y=0&zoom=0.99 )

In wedding records at that time, most often about the age and date of birth of those who got married, not the exact date.

-Barb

The most important thing from this document (not a full translation):

No.32 Wieluń

It happened in the town of Wieluń, on November 3rd/15th, 1868, at 4 p.m.
A religious marriage was concluded on this day, between:
Józef Chrzan / Chrzanowski, a bachelor, 26 years old, living in Wieluń, a son of the late spouses Chrzanowski: Tomasz and Gertruda, who was born in the village of Parcice.
and
Marianna Tomaszczyk, a miss, 19 years old, who was born and living in the town Wieluń, a daughter of the late Mateusz and living Agnieszka (currently living in Wieluń).

-Barb

Thank you again a lot for your help, I wouldn't have imagined to find all those informations !

And for the uniforms/medals, do you know if there is a museum in Poland about the 1863 insurrection, so I can ask them ? I searched on the web but didn't found anything except a museum of the army in Warszawa, maybe I'll start there

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:42 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sun Sep 29, 2024 7:42 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:24 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:24 pm

……and from your post

And for what you said about the correct date being on wedding document, you gave me a few messages above their wedding act from 1868, do you see it there ? (this one : https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&se=&sy=1868a&kt=2&plik=031-032.jpg&x=1652&y=0&zoom=0.99 )

In wedding records at that time, most often about the age and date of birth of those who got married, not the exact date.

-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:10 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:10 pm

Sire Jo wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

I'll look into this later tonight. I know Russian, and can help with the birth record. There is a 12-13 day difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendars. Depending on whether it is a leap year or not. Don't worry about the 2 year difference. The most correct is always a wedding document, where the person himself reports the age. Family members who are left do not always know the age of the deceased. Especially when older family members die.

When Marianna married in 1868, she was 19 years old. This means that she was born in abt. 1849. This also confirms her birth record. She was born on 26.06.1849.
When Jozef got married, he was 26 years old. This gives birth year abt. 1842. He was born on 23.02.1842. So it all fits perfectly.

-Barb

Ok, thank you ! So that means it is a mistake on the grave, she died at 82 and not 84. Thanks for you help, I have much more informations about my family now, it is amazing !

Yes, correct. This tombstone came almost 100 years after they were born. They did not remember the exact date of birth.
-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:05 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 1:05 pm

855. Częstochowa town
It happened in the town of Częstochowa, on August 5th /17th, 1890, at 5 p.m.
Appeared Józef Chrzanowski, a worker, 49 years old, living in Częstochowa, in the presence of Jan Zberski, a citizen, 37 years old and Antoni Reterski, a locksmith, 42 years old, both living in Częstochowa and presented Us a newborn male child, informing that the child was born in Częstochowa on July 29th/August 10th of the current year, at 12 o'clock at night, to his legal wife, Marianna nee Tomaszewska, 37 years old.
At The Holy Baptism, held today by the priest Izydor Kowalski, vicar, the child was given the name Ludwik, and her godparents were Jan Zberski and Marianna Reterska.
This act was read to the declarant and the witnesses, who were illiterate, and it was signed by Us.

Priest's signature

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:25 pm

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:25 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Ok, thank you ! So that means it is a mistake on the grave, she died at 82 and not 84. Thanks for you help, I have much more informations about my family now, it is amazing !

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:22 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:22 pm

Sire Jo wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

Again, thanks a lot for your help. Here is Ludwic birth's record. I tried to translate it myself and it was something like that :
"City of Tchestokovo, 5 august 1890, JOZEF CHRZANOWSKI, worker of 49 years old,
[... names of the witnesses I guess but cannot read it]
he has a boy born 29 07 1890 with his wife Marianna, born Tomaczeskowa, 37 years old. His name is Ludwik.
[cannot read after that]"

And for what you said about the correct date being on wedding document, you gave me a few messages above their wedding act from 1868, do you see it there ? (this one : https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&se=&sy=1868a&kt=2&plik=031-032.jpg&x=1652&y=0&zoom=0.99 )

I will translate this for you and put it where you first asked for a translation. Then others won't have to spend time on it.
-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:21 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:21 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:06 pm

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 12:06 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:54 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:54 am

I'll look into this later tonight. I know Russian, and can help with the birth record. There is a 12-13 day difference between the Julian and Gregorian calendars. Depending on whether it is a leap year or not. Don't worry about the 2 year difference. The most correct is always a wedding document, where the person himself reports the age. Family members who are left do not always know the age of the deceased. Especially when older family members die.

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:31 am

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:31 am

BarbOslo wrote:

Józef Chrzan was born on February 23rd, 1842 in the village of Parcice parish Czastary, he was the son of Tomasz Chrzan and Gertruda nee Gzik

No.20 (birth record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=557&se=&sy=1842&kt=1&plik=019-021.jpg&x=2012&y=255&zoom=1.5

Marianna Tomaszczyk was born on June 26th, 1849 in Wieluń, she was the daughter of Mateusz Tomaszczyk and Agnieszka nee Mauczarek

No.76 (birth record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&sy=1849&kt=1&plik=075-078.jpg

Regards,
-Barb

Thank you for uploading it again ! I have a little problem about Marianna's birth, I found her grave in a recent trip to find traces of my family (but all descendants of Jozef and Marianna are dead, except us in France) in Czestochowa, and it is written that she died in december 1931 at 84 years old (so birth date aroud 1847 and not 1849 ?). And the birth act of Ludwic (1890) says that she was 42, so again around 1847/48... I know Russians used a different calendar at that time but the difference was in days, not years ?

Here's a picture if you want to see :

(Do you need the birth act as well ? It is written in russian and I am very bad in russian so maybe I made a mistake reading it)

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:22 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:22 am

Józef Chrzan was born on February 23rd, 1842 in the village of Parcice parish Czastary, he was the son of Tomasz Chrzan and Gertruda nee Gzik

No.20 (birth record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=557&se=&sy=1842&kt=1&plik=019-021.jpg&x=2012&y=255&zoom=1.5

Marianna Tomaszczyk was born on June 26th, 1849 in Wieluń, she was the daughter of Mateusz Tomaszczyk and Agnieszka nee Mauczarek

No.76 (birth record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&sy=1849&kt=1&plik=075-078.jpg

Regards,
-Barb

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:09 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 11:09 am

I see it disappeared. Will have to reload. Just need to find the doc where I wrote this.

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:57 am

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:57 am

BarbOslo wrote:

As for questions about uniforms, unfortunately I can't help.

Thank you a lot, you helped me so much ! No problem for the uniforms, I will continue to search.

Just a little question, did you delete your message about Jozef and Marianna birth ? I just had the time to see it I know I cannot ?

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:52 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:52 am

As for questions about uniforms, unfortunately I can't help.

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

Sire Jo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:50 am

Author: Sire Jo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:50 am

BarbOslo wrote:

The family came from the Łódź voivodeship and moved to Częstochowa between 1879-82. I think that more children were born in Częstochowa.

&

Here is the wedding record, and the birth records for Józef and Marianna.
Note that surnames changed over the years.

Józef Chrzanowski and Marianna Tomaszczyk married in Wieluń parish on 15.11.1868

No.32 (wedding record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=261&se=&sy=1868a&kt=2&plik=031-032.jpg&x=2084&y=25&zoom=1

-Barb

Waw, thanks a lot ! I spent a lot of time on Czestochowa archyvum website but as I do not speak polish nor russian I only managed to find Ludwic's birth act. Thank you for the wedding act of his parents !

And yes, there is at list another children born, Waclaw, born in 1874, who was a priest from a parish near Czestochowa and was killed by the Germans in 1943

Re: Looking for informations about ancestors (uniform & info

BarbOslo — Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:24 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Sep 28, 2024 10:24 am

Gertruda Gzik* nee Chrzan* was born in abt. 1813 in the village of Parcice. She was the daughter of Piotr Chrzan* and Katarzyna nee Bachniak. Gertuda died on February 29th, 1848 in the village of Parcice parish Czastary, at the age of 35. She left behind her husband Tomasz
*It seems that here the priest changed the surnames

No.69 (death record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=557&se=&sy=1848&kt=3&plik=067-072.jpg&x=333&y=1789&zoom=1.5

Tomasz Chrzan was born in abt.1808 in the village of Parcice. He was the son of Franciszek Chrzan and Zofia Swierszyn. He died on August 2nd, 1848 in Parcice parish Czastary at the age of 40. Widower.

No.237 (death record)
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=557&se=&sy=1848&kt=3&plik=235-240.jpg&x=114&y=1693&zoom=1.5