PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:49 pm

Author: maallen16

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 12:49 pm

Thank you so much - that is such a gift. Can't wait to dive into it, but I think I do have some differences. I will look deeper and check back with you.
That is really so nice of you
-Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:46 am

Author: maallen16

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:46 am

THANK YOU! That is an amazing gift. I can't wait to dig into it
Have a lovely day
-Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:38 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Sat Jan 25, 2025 11:38 am

Hi Marian,
I had some time this week, and here is a little gift for you. I built up the main line from your grandfather John Mlodzianowski. I know you have started searching earlier, and some of it is familiar to you. Check later if my information matches yours.

-Barb

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:10 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 11:10 am

I know Värmland quite well. We had a cabin in Värmland for 18 years.
Take care,
-Barb

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:58 am

Author: maallen16

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:58 am

Thank you! I think I have what I need right now, may got back to it when I am more comfortable.
I had thought my husband would have had more Norwegian connections as the family was based in Varmland, but it seems that they are mostly Swedish Finns - the Forest People!
Yes Olaf is a good name, but there were way too many Olaf Olafssons, not to mention the temporary military names - gives me a headache just remembering it
Take care,
Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:47 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:47 am

Hi Marian,
If you need the translation of the rest of the record, I can help you with translating the most important facts.
Olaf är ett bra namn!
-Barb

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:28 am

Author: maallen16

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:28 am

Thank you, that is so helpful! It is quite an adjustment switching mindset from Swedish genealogy to Polish. Different religions, multiple languages. Though I do not miss the Patronymic naming system and the huge number of Olafs in my husbands lineage!
-Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:14 am

Author: maallen16

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:14 am

Thank you! yes it is a struggle, but makes sense now.
Pierogi were one of the first thing I learned to cook!
-Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

Sophia — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:14 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:14 am

Actually, here is a nice description that I found on the JewishGen website:

"There are often two dates listed on civil records in Russian Poland, for example: "Działo się dnia drugiego / czertnastego lipca" = "It happened on the second / fourteenth day of July", or "urodzone w dnia dwudziestym czwartym czerwca / szóstym lipca" = "born on the twenty-fourth of June / sixth of July".

These two dates are the Julian and Gregorian dates, respectively. The Julian calendar was used by the Russians (the Czarist government and the Russian Orthodox Church); and the Gregorian calendar was used by the Poles (and the rest of Europe). The Gregorian calendar is used worldwide today.

The later date is the Gregorian date. During the 1700s, the difference between the two calendars was 11 days. Beginning on March 1, 1800, there was a 12-day gap between the two dates. On March 1, 1900, the difference became 13 days. The date difference will become 14 days on March 1, 2100. "

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

Sophia — Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:09 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 10:09 am

maallen16 wrote:

Ladies - I am struggling with the marriage date of Franciszek Marciniak Mlodzianowski and Konstancja Jozefa Tomczuk
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&ar=6&zs=0263d&sy=1835&kt=2&plik=22-23.jpg

Hi Marian,

Not sure if you are struggling with the handwriting, or with the concept of the old calendar vs. the new calendar. If the latter, look up Julian calendar vs. Gregorian calendar in the context of Russian Poland and genealogical records. If it is the handwriting you find difficult, here is the first paragraph of the document transcribed for you:

Działo się w Mieście Nurze, podług Kalendarza Starego dnia piętnastego, a podlug Nowego dwudziestego siodmego miesiąca Pazdziernika, tysiąc osiemcet trydziestego piątego roku, o godzinie czwartej po południu.

Helpful?

Best regards,
Sophia

P.S. I've got some nice pierogi right here but I am not sure how well that pairs with your bourbon!

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:52 am

Author: maallen16

Posted: Thu Jan 23, 2025 9:52 am

Ladies - I am struggling with the marriage date of Franciszek Marciniak Mlodzianowski and Konstancja Jozefa Tomczuk
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&ar=6&zs=0263d&sy=1835&kt=2&plik=22-23.jpg

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:54 pm

Author: maallen16

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 7:54 pm

WOOHOO!!!!!
Thank you both SOOOO much! If you are ever in Louisville, the bourbon is on me!
Now to the next problem - you will be hearing from me soon
Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

Sophia — Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:32 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 6:32 pm

Hi Marian,
This makes it all nice and tidy, now!
The attached image is a snippet from the annex record, and Barb confirmed for me that it says "Franciszek Marciniak inaczej Mlodzianowski" which, as she said above, means he was Franciszek Marciniak, known as Mlodzianowski.
Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:51 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Wed Jan 22, 2025 3:51 pm

This document (annex) is almost the same as the marriage record. It contains the same information.

.....Thanks to Sophia who was a more attentive reader we can give you an important piece of information.
At the bottom of the page is written Franciszek Marciniak known as Mlodzianowski.

-Barb

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:43 pm

Author: maallen16

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:43 pm

Thank you so much Ladies - you are both amazing.
Barb, Can you tell me what the 'Annex' actually said? This is new to me and I would like a translation in case I run into another one. Do they tend to follow the same format?
-Marian

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

Sophia — Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:07 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 5:07 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

maallen16 wrote:

My mother always told me I was a problem child.
Thanks for all the help, and please let me know if there is anything you need from me
-Marian

Hallo again,
From Genetyka
Here is another example that strengthens my theory
Marianna's name was Marciniak when she was born, but Mlodzianowska when she married.

Barb, I agree with you. I would say that you have solved the puzzle.
I was using those other examples of Marciniak to show that the "vel" was not always used in this parish.
Good detective work, as always!
Best,
Sophia

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:53 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:53 pm

maallen16 wrote:

My mother always told me I was a problem child.
Thanks for all the help, and please let me know if there is anything you need from me
-Marian

Hallo again,
From Genetyka
Here is another example that strengthens my theory
Marianna's name was Marciniak when she was born, but Mlodzianowska when she married.

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

BarbOslo — Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:51 pm

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 3:51 pm

Sophia wrote:

BarbOslo wrote:

Hi Sophia and Marian,
I have seen the annex (from 1835) earlier. This document does not provide us with more information.
It sounds strange to compare such different surnames as Marciniak and Mlodzianowski. But there are several places where everything fits so well.
Wedding Marciniak-Tomczuk just before the first child Mlodzianowski-Tomczuk was born. The bride's age, place of birth and the parents' names. Franciszek Mlodzianowski's birthplace as stated in his death record (same as Franciszek Marciniak). Mlodzianowski surname as mentioned in the marriage record (1811), although the children of that couple are again named Marciniak.
Correct as you write that maybe copy 2 has some other guides. But strange that the surname was not corrected anywhere. That it is not written "Mlodzianowski vel Marciniak".
It will not be easy to solve this puzzle.

-Barb

Hi Barb,

There is a Franciszek Marciniak vel Wojtczuk, in this marriage:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=807&se=&sy=1853&kt=2&plik=38-40.jpg&x=1946&y=52&zoom=1.5

And there are two other interesting Marciniak's, one is Andrzej Marciniak Wojtczuk, in this death record 25:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=832&se=&sy=A1818&kt=7&plik=024-026.jpg&x=1600&y=152&zoom=2.25

And the other is Stanislaw Marciniak Wojtczuk, in this death record 27:
https://metryki.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=pg&id=832&se=&sy=A1818&kt=7&plik=027-029.jpg&x=162&y=728&zoom=2

How do you interpret this? Is Wojtczuk being used there as Son-of-Wojciech but the surname is really Marciniak? And could something similar have happened with Marian's family, where Marciniak was Son-of-Marcin but the surname was really Mlodzianowski?

Sophia

I don't know, Sophia. There are quite a few surnames that come from male first names. But as you say, this combination is not seen with the surname Mlodzianowski.
-Barb

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

Sophia — Tue Jan 21, 2025 1:54 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 1:54 pm

BarbOslo wrote:

Re: Nur-Mlodzianowski Brick Wall - Marriage

maallen16 — Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:39 pm

Author: maallen16

Posted: Tue Jan 21, 2025 12:39 pm

My mother always told me I was a problem child.
Thanks for all the help, and please let me know if there is anything you need from me
-Marian