PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Sun May 04, 2025 3:05 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sun May 04, 2025 3:05 am

Hey, yes I've seen their graves and got the photos (and two of the trees are mine). Unfortunately it's not given me any details on the surname.

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

looking for clues — Sat May 03, 2025 5:51 pm

Author: looking for clues

Posted: Sat May 03, 2025 5:51 pm

On findagrave.com I found graves for Solomon and Fanny in the Edmonton Federation of Synagogues Cemetery, buried next to each other. There are other Cinna burials in England
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/220303095/solomon-cinna 1872-1939
https://www.findagrave.com/memorial/220303094/fanny-cinna 1884-1951

I do not currently have Ancestry access, but there are trees for Solomon and Fanny. According to a couple of the trees he was Solomon (Shlomo) Cinna. Fanny could have been born Freda Rovnik or Rovnick or Resnik

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Sat May 03, 2025 1:42 pm

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sat May 03, 2025 1:42 pm

Is there anything someone could recommend given the volume of info I have?

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Mon Apr 28, 2025 12:59 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2025 12:59 am

Yes I accessed the full papers and it contains a lot of information but unfortunately still lists him as Jack from that location. I checked JewishGen and nothing comes up for him, a similar name, a similar surname, date of birth etc. I feel stuck!

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Sophia — Sun Apr 27, 2025 5:03 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 5:03 pm

Danielcinna wrote:

Thank you both for the replies.
I have got Jack's naturalisation certificate from NA.
For some reason there isn't one for Solomon?
Meidzyrzecz, Lublin, Russia is where he said he came from
But having checked the links above I can't seem to find anything / anyone similar?

Daniel,

The National Archives shows two entries for Jack Cinna. One is his naturalisation certificate. I assume this is the one that you have, and I assume from what you wrote that it actually gives his name as "Jack Cinna." But that could not have been his birth name. The other document listed by the National Archives, under the title Nationality and Naturalisation, has in the description that it is from "Home Office: Registered Papers, Supplementary." Did you obtain this one also? My hope was that this second document would include his true name.

Solomon may not have naturalised. He may never have felt the need to do so. Or he may have naturalised using a spelling of "Cinna" that we have not yet figured out, so you will be unable to find him in the National Archives.

You will need to see if JewishGen enables you to access records for Miedzyrzecz, if you want to proceed to find Jack's birth record. I do not have an account there.

Sophia

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Sun Apr 27, 2025 4:10 pm

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2025 4:10 pm

Thank you both for the replies.
I have got Jack's naturalisation certificate from NA.
For some reason there isn't one for Solomon?
Meidzyrzecz, Lublin, Russia is where he said he came from
But having checked the links above I can't seem to find anything / anyone similar?

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Sophia — Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:25 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2025 1:25 pm

P.S. Daniel, the other good reason for pursuing the naturalization documents for Sam and Jack is to find out what their actual first names are. Sam/Samuel could be Szmul (variously spelled) while Jack and Fanny are not likely to be their original first names at all. Many thanks to Trish for reminding me of this. When you are able to locate records from Poland, you may be able to use these names to be sure you have located the correct Solomon, prior to trying to work backwards through the tree to Solomon's ancestors.

Sophia

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Sophia — Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:25 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2025 8:25 am

Hi Daniel and Trish,

I am trying to think of the best way to help you.

In reading back through this thread, I see that there was some speculation that Cinna is not the original spelling of your family's name. Actually, I think that it is. If anything, it might have been slightly anglicized from something like Cyna.

You said that you already looked at the UK National Archives for your family, but have you actually pursued obtaining the records of naturalization for both Sam and Jack? They are here:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_q=Cinna

You just ask the National Archives for a quote of what it will cost for them to make a copy of it. As I recall, the fees are quite reasonable, but of course it is your money and your decision. It could be helpful in finding out whether they provided any alternative spellings of their surname in these naturalization applications. I am not seeing any naturalization record indexed there for Solomon and Fanny, which would have been much more helpful.

While the Lubgens site is an excellent one for researching names in the Lublin area, it is rather thin in the amount of Jewish records. It does have records from "Międzyrzec Podlaski (mojż.)" which are the Jewish records, but only from 1910-1919. You may do better to sign up for an account on the JewishGen website, here:

https://www.jewishgen.org/databases/jgform.php

I note that JewishGen lists a lot more records for Cyna than it does for Cinna.

The same is true of the Arolsen Archives:

https://collections.arolsen-archives.org/en/search

I am not suggesting that Arolsen has records for your family, specifically, since you say they were already in England in 1901, but I am using these resources to try to pin down the true spelling of the surname. Hopefully, then JewishGen can point you in the direction of Jewish records from Międzyrzec and Radzyn. If I spot anything in the Polish Archives that seems to be relevant, I will add it here.

Good luck making some progress with this,
Sophia

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Thu Apr 24, 2025 3:41 pm

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2025 3:41 pm

Do you have any tips on what to do now?

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:38 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:38 am

Yeah I saw those names too but unfortunately the first names and dates of birth didn't match up. I went to the national archives and saw the records but they didn't reveal anything

Re: Thanks

Trish — Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:26 am

Author: Trish

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:26 am

Danielcinna wrote:

Thanks Trish - totally didn't realise and now have notifications!
Yes I've seen that record and Radzyn listed. But I've researched some polish archives and can't find Solomon, Fanny, Sam or Jack Cinna anywhere. Even with similar surnames. What could I do?

Hi Daniel,

Hopefully someone on the forum will have some suggestions for where you can search.

I will say that I saw some surnames such as Czynna, Ciennicka, Cinnkowski.

Did you send away for his death record? It could have clues on it such as his parents' names.

Regards,
Trish

Thanks

Danielcinna — Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:17 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 11:17 am

Thanks Trish - totally didn't realise and now have notifications!
Yes I've seen that record and Radzyn listed. But I've researched some polish archives and can't find Solomon, Fanny, Sam or Jack Cinna anywhere. Even with similar surnames. What could I do?

Re: cinna

Trish — Sun Apr 13, 2025 10:51 am

Author: Trish

Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2025 10:51 am

Danielcinna wrote:

Hello! I'm trying to trace my great great grandfather who came from Międzyrzec. His name was Solomon Cinna and he was born around 1872-1875. He arrived in England in 1901.

He served in the Russian army from 1886.

I would love any help anyone can offer as I have been trying to trace him for six years.

Hi Daniel,

It's always to a good idea to check the forum for responses. Sometimes you don't receive a message that there is a response waiting for you.

I'm not sure if you have seen the 1921 Census for Solomon and his family? This census is actually showing where the family was from in Poland. Did you send away for Solomon's death record? The death record might have some clues on it.

There is a tree on ancestry.com that lists Solomon's birth date as 5 August 1872.

Here is his death information.
Name Solomon Cinna
Death Age 67
Birth Date abt 1872
Registration Date Oct 1939 [Nov 1939][Dec 1939]
Registration Quarter Oct-Nov-Dec
Registration District Willesden
Inferred County Middlesex
Volume 3a
Page 697

Regards,
Trish

Name Solomon Cinna
Gender Male
Nationality Resident, Polish
Marital Status Married
Age 48 Years 10 Months
Relation to Head Head
Estimated Birth Year 1872
Birth Place Poland
Residence Date 1921
Residence Street Address 19 West Albion Street
Residence Place Mile End Old Town, London, Middlesex, England
Occupation Ladies Tailor Chamber Morten
Occupation Code 400/3
Employer White Star Line
Employer Code 341
Place of Work At Home
Number of Children Under 16 6
Inhabited Y
Ward Mile End Old Town South
Parliamentary Division Stepney Pb, Mile End Div.
Registration District Mile End Old Town
Registration District Number 21
Sub registration district Mile End Old Town South Western
Sub Registration District Number 1
Respondent Cinna
Enumeration District Name Stepney Mb
Enumeration District 22
Schedule 194
Schedule Type Code E
Household Members (Name) Age Relationship
Solomon Cinna - 48 Years 10 Months - Head
Fanny Cinna - 47 Years 5 Months - Wife
Sam Cinna - 22 Years 5 Months - Son
Jack Cinna - 19 Years 7 Months - Son
Leah Cinna - 14 Years 10 Months - daughter
Mark Cinna - 13 Years 9 Months - Son
Isaac Cinna - 11 Years 10 Months - Son
Gertie Cinna - 6 Years 1 Month - Daughter
Harry Cinna - 4 Years 6 Months - Son
Sarah Cinna - 3 years - Daughter

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Sat Apr 05, 2025 3:43 pm

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Sat Apr 05, 2025 3:43 pm

I'm so sorry I never got a notification to say that I received a reply and I'm coming back to this years after continuing to try and find my ancestor. Solomon's mum was called Malka and his dad may have been called Abraham.

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Cheri Vanden Berg — Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:18 am

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 11:18 am

Daniel,
Gilberto could be right about Cinna being shortened from Szczecinna. I think that maybe the only way to find out would be to find a Solomon Szczecinna that was born when your Solomon was born. I realize that you don't have a date, and if you don't know his parents names, I don't think you could be sure. What else do you know about your Solomon, did he marry in England? Church records may have more information.

I may be confusing matters when I mention that there were 32 people with the Cina surname in Poland in 2002, see here: http://www.moikrewni.pl/mapa/kompletny/cina.html
There are some people with the Cina surname, who were born in Poland, that show up in some U.S. records...

I have read your Ancestry post. The surname Cina can be found at the Jewish Records Indexing site
http://jri-poland.org/surnames/lukow.htm

Cheri

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:44 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:44 am

Oh wow. Really? That is definitely possible. Where did you find that reference?

If I was to explore that avenue, where else would you recommend I look?

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Anonymous — Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:43 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:43 am

Danielcinna wrote:

Hi Gilberto, thank you for your response. Unfortunately we believe that the name may have been changed when my great great grandfather came to the UK. I'm trying hard to find the original surname, but with great difficulty.

How would you advise that I go about this?

Daniel

Daniel,

I am sorry I cannot be of a great help about this. I have seen many Szczecinna there in Mied*. Maybe your ancestor shortened his surname?
Just an idea.

Gilberto

Re: Cinna from Międzyrzec

Danielcinna — Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:22 am

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:22 am

Hi Gilberto, thank you for your response. Unfortunately we believe that the name may have been changed when my great great grandfather came to the UK. I'm trying hard to find the original surname, but with great difficulty.

How would you advise that I go about this?

Daniel

Re: cinna

Anonymous — Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:09 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Wed Apr 06, 2016 6:09 am

Danielcinna wrote:

Daniel,

The site http://regestry.lubgens.eu/news.php has records for Miedzyrzec (old and new town, greek-catholic and orthodox churches)
However, I could not find any Cinna. This spelling does not show up in www.herby.com.pl what makes me think it is misspelled.

Gilberto

cinna

Danielcinna — Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:25 pm

Author: Danielcinna

Posted: Tue Apr 05, 2016 4:25 pm

Hello! I'm trying to trace my great great grandfather who came from Międzyrzec. His name was Solomon Cinna and he was born around 1872-1875. He arrived in England in 1901.

He served in the Russian army from 1886.

I would love any help anyone can offer as I have been trying to trace him for six years.