PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

jajan — Thu May 22, 2025 9:28 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Thu May 22, 2025 9:28 am

Kmichael8 wrote:

For Josephine's death record, last column, I believe the final two words are "fruher gestorben" which I would take to mean that whoever is referenced in the words above that had died earlier than Josephine did. Given what Barb wrote, I think it might say "der ehemann Johann fruher gestorben." Just a guess.

Hi,

The last column says "der Ehemann schon früher gestorben" and confirms that Josephine was widowed.

Best
Michael

Thanks Michael! Very glad to have your input and insight as well.

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

Kmichael8 — Thu May 22, 2025 9:19 am

Author: Kmichael8

Posted: Thu May 22, 2025 9:19 am

Sophia wrote:

Hi Jajan and Barb,

For Josephine's death record, last column, I believe the final two words are "fruher gestorben" which I would take to mean that whoever is referenced in the words above that had died earlier than Josephine did. Given what Barb wrote, I think it might say "der ehemann Johann fruher gestorben." Just a guess.

Best to check with Michael.

Sophia

Hi,

The last column says "der Ehemann schon früher gestorben" and confirms that Josephine was widowed.

Best
Michael

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

jajan — Tue May 20, 2025 10:32 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:32 am

Sophia and Barb,

I think we are making a better case than I thought possible that this family is a match. I had previously been skeptical because Augustina and Catherine (md Gliszczyński in Lipusz and whom I suspected was a sister) did not have baptisms recorded in Lipusz while the marriage recored (1844) and a daughter Victoria (1851) did have Lipusz records.

So glad to have both of your help in working through this!

jajan

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

BarbOslo — Tue May 20, 2025 10:17 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:17 am

Done! Maybe that helps too.
Lipusz I komunia 1849-1898 / 012.jpg

-Barb

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

BarbOslo — Tue May 20, 2025 10:10 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:10 am

The file is too large and will not download. Can send by email. Send me your email by PM.
-Barb

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

jajan — Tue May 20, 2025 10:03 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:03 am

BarbOslo wrote:

The death records for Johann and Josephine match. Josephine was a widow and she left behind three minor children. Unfortunately I cannot read the last column.
-Barb

The first communion record is something I did not realize was available! I am having trouble getting the record when I click on the link you provided as it takes me to the GenBaza main page and not the actual communion record. Could you give me directions on how to find the actual communion record on GenBaza?

Your assistance in finding/clarifying this information is very much appreciated,

jajan

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

Sophia — Tue May 20, 2025 10:01 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 10:01 am

Hi Jajan and Barb,

For Josephine's death record, last column, I believe the final two words are "fruher gestorben" which I would take to mean that whoever is referenced in the words above that had died earlier than Josephine did. Given what Barb wrote, I think it might say "der ehemann Johann fruher gestorben." Just a guess.

Best to check with Michael.

Sophia

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

BarbOslo — Tue May 20, 2025 9:55 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 9:55 am

The death records for Johan and Josephine match. Josephine was a widow and she left behind three minor children. Unfortunately I cannot read the last column. I think it is written that her husband Johan is dead.
-Barb

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

BarbOslo — Tue May 20, 2025 9:35 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 9:35 am

jajan wrote:

Hi Barb! I have a lot of documents (passenger list, children's birth and marriage records, US Census). They all show a consistent birthdate range of 1844-1846. Her age at death per her death record calculates to 19 Feb 1846 and to 14 Feb 1847 on the related burial record. On the death record, it indicates a father's name of "Frank" but I am skeptical that that is correct.

I have a possible birth record that could be hers from Ugoszcz parish about 30 minutes away from Lipusz. The parents were married in Lipusz (1844), had this Augustina and a daughter Catherine in Ugoszcz, then were back in Lipusz by 1851. From an online tree, it appears that the father (Johann) died in 1851. The mother (Jozephina) died in 1854 which would support the orphan status of my Augustina. I had been skeptical that this was the correct family, but as I go back through everything with you and Sophia, I am rethinking that. I would like more support but I do not know that it exists.

I am attaching the birth record of the Augustina born in 1845 in Ugoszcz. I think the dates of birth and baptism are in Latin but I have not yet tried to translate them.

I am also attaching the mother's (Jozephina) death record. I think it indicates that she left 3 children but I cannot read the word after kinder nor the notation in the last column. Can you? If not, I will post to the german translation thread.

jajan

Hi,
I found her first communion record in parish Lipusz. This says she was born on February 2nd, 1845. Daughter of Johann (Polish Jan) was born in Kłączno, lives in Skwierawy. No.20.
https://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,417210,13

Kłączno is a village in Gmina Studzienice, Bytów County, Pomeranian Voivodeship, in northern Poland.

I found her birth record in the parish of Ugoszcz. This confirms the date and place of birth. She was baptized on February 3rd, 1845 as Augustina Apolonia. Father: Joannes (German Johann) Rogalski. Mother: Josephina Trawizka (Trawicka, Trawidzka). Godparents was Andreas (Polish Andrzej) Cichosz and Tekla Rogalska. So the birth certificate you attached is correct.

-Barb

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

jajan — Tue May 20, 2025 9:25 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 9:25 am

Hi Barb! I have a lot of documents (passenger list, children's birth and marriage records, US Census). They all show a consistent birthdate range of 1844-1846. Her age at death per her death record calculates to 19 Feb 1846 and to 14 Feb 1847 on the related burial record. On the death record, it indicates a father's name of "Frank" but I am skeptical that that is correct.

I have a possible birth record that could be hers from Ugoszcz parish about 30 minutes away from Lipusz. The parents were married in Lipusz (1844), had this Augustina and a daughter Catherine in Ugoszcz, then were back in Lipusz by 1851. From an online tree, it appears that the father (Johann) died in 1851. The mother (Jozephina) died in 1854 which would support the orphan status of my Augustina. I had been skeptical that this was the correct family, but as I go back through everything with you and Sophia, I am rethinking that. I would like more support but I do not know that it exists.

I am attaching the birth record of the Augustina born in 1845 in Ugoszcz. I think the dates of birth and baptism are in Latin but I have not yet tried to translate them.

I am also attaching the mother's (Jozephina) death record. I think it indicates that she left 3 children but I cannot read the word after kinder nor the notation in the last column. Can you? If not, I will post to the german translation thread.

jajan

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

BarbOslo — Tue May 20, 2025 7:50 am

Author: BarbOslo

Posted: Tue May 20, 2025 7:50 am

Hi Jajan,
You want to find Augustina's date of birth, place of birth, and names of parents. The only thing you know about her comes from her marriage record from 1865, right?
Regards,
-Barb

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

jajan — Mon May 19, 2025 7:48 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Mon May 19, 2025 7:48 am

Sophia wrote:

Hi Jajan,

You mentioned that you were looking for Augustina in birth indexes. Have you tried looking directly at the church books from Lipusz/Lippusch? They are here:

https://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,list,348474,1

And you will notice that the way each jpg image is named will give you the key as to what year you are looking at.

In this thread, you give her surname as Rogalinska, but in your 2019 conversation with Michael you gave it as Rogalska. If you think there is any possibility that it could be stretched to Rekowska, then this 1848 birth might be of interest (fifth baptism on the page):

https://metryki.genbaza.pl/genbaza,detail,348474,119

Not very convincing, though, is it? Particularly since it does not show her family as being in Squierawen. Even so, maybe you can just try to trace what happens to this Augustina so that you can rule her out for sure.

Best of luck in finding her,
Sophia

Thanks, again, Sophia. The correct last name is Rogalska. I mis-typed it above. I have seen the church books and have gone through them but am going to do so again. Since the marriage record does not provide parent names, I was hoping the orphan court records might help me prove that I have the right birth record once I find any that could be the right fit.
Have a great week! jajan.

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

Sophia — Fri May 16, 2025 10:03 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri May 16, 2025 10:03 am

jajan wrote:

Thank-You, Sophia! This is helpful and very interesting. I do not know Augustina’s birthplace and she doesn’t appear in any of the birth indexes for the region, so I am going to have to expand my search to unindexed parishes and other records. I appreciate the clarification of the term to use (Vormundschaftsakten).

jajan

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

jajan — Thu May 15, 2025 8:47 am

Author: jajan

Posted: Thu May 15, 2025 8:47 am

[/quote] Hi Jajan,

On the Family Search website, you can do a search of their catalog. If you search by keyword, and use the term Vormundschaftsakten rather than Vormundschaftsgericht, there are 100 results. You would have to sift through those to see if the location of Augustina's marriage (or would it have to be the location of her birth? I have never tried to access this type of record.) is among them. Alternatively, you could search the catalog by place and then see if any of the results include the words Vormundschaftsgericht or Vormundschaftsakten or something similar.

Good luck!
Sophia[/quote]

Thank-You, Sophia! This is helpful and very interesting. I do not know Augustina’s birthplace and she doesn’t appear in any of the birth indexes for the region, so I am going to have to expand my search to unindexed parishes and other records. I appreciate the clarification of the term to use (Vormundschaftsakten).

jajan

Re: Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage recor

Sophia — Tue May 13, 2025 6:12 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Tue May 13, 2025 6:12 am

jajan wrote:

Michael kindly translated the 1865 marriage record of John Krüger and Augustina Rogalinska at: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=3263&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=345.

It indicated that the approval for the bride was from the “guardianship court (Vormundschaftsgericht)”.

I was wondering if there might be some guardianship court papers for Augustina and, if so, how to obtain copies?

Thank-You for any assistance and/or insight that you may be able to provide!

Jajan

Hi Jajan,

On the Family Search website, you can do a search of their catalog. If you search by keyword, and use the term Vormundschaftsakten rather than Vormundschaftsgericht, there are 100 results. You would have to sift through those to see if the location of Augustina's marriage (or would it have to be the location of her birth? I have never tried to access this type of record.) is among them. Alternatively, you could search the catalog by place and then see if any of the results include the words Vormundschaftsgericht or Vormundschaftsakten or something similar.

Good luck!
Sophia

Guardianship noted in German (Pommerania) Marriage record?

jajan — Sun May 11, 2025 7:39 pm

Author: jajan

Posted: Sun May 11, 2025 7:39 pm

Michael kindly translated the 1865 marriage record of John Krüger and Augustina Rogalinska at: https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=3263&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=345.

It indicated that the approval for the bride was from the “guardianship court (Vormundschaftsgericht)”.

I was wondering if there might be some guardianship court papers for Augustina and, if so, how to obtain copies?

Thank-You for any assistance and/or insight that you may be able to provide!

Jajan