PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Illegitimacy in Old Galicia

ShannonCreedon — Wed Mar 11, 2026 3:30 pm

Author: ShannonCreedon

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2026 3:30 pm

J-P Morski wrote:

Hi Dave!

Million billion thanks for your lengthy and informative reply to my post about my illegitimate paternal great-grandfather and his family. I appreciate your time and attention enormously! How can I repay this enormous kindness?

Could I impose further and ask for your informed opinion on what might have possibly been Katarzyna's backstory? One illegitimate child is "normal" we can say. But 4 or more? Also, her social status of a "serva vaga" which I assume would preclude her from taking care of the children herself. My great-grandfather's kids never spoke about his being an "orphan" (that was the official story). The family was ultra-Catholic and, of course, this was a scandal and an embarrassment. The only people who would truly know the backstory are long deceased. Any thoughts as to the life she lived, how she ended up in such a condition and anything else you could or would comment upon will be enormously appreciated.

I don't have the birth registers for the other two kids. At least, I haven't located them yet. I originally did my family history decades ago when you had to order microfilms from Salt Lake City and write letters on paper to vital statistics offices and archives. My father's mother and my mother's parents are East Galician ethnic Ukrainians so I found a lot in Lviv at the TsDIAL. Family members in Ukraine also provided some information. As did my many trips over the years (I am originally from Canada but now based in Tbilisi). Marcin, my great-grandfather, married a woman from neighbouring Lipsko, started a family and emigrated to Canada. His brother Wojciech married and had a family in Belzec and surrounding areas. I have tracked them down. I found a family in southern Brazil as well with ties to Belzec but we haven't been able to make the connection yet because from the Brazilian side, they don't have a lot of information on the immigrant ancestor. My mother's Ukrainian peeps also emigrated to Brazil (and Canada and the US).

Katarzyna's story has intrigued me and saddened me for years. I can't imagine the life she lived. I've imagined many scenarios from rapes to prostitution to being the concubine of the village noble to being super model beautiful to being a bad ass who fell out of line... all ridiculous, now, I know.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise. Looking forward to hearing from you again at your convenience.

Jeff

Hi Jeff!

Katarzyna's story is definitely interesting. I can see why it has lived with you.

First, I will say, I am NOT an expert on Polish history or class structure, so please take what I am including below as a beginner's research. I have started down the rabbit hole of learning about it to better understand where my ancestors came from, why they left, why some stayed, and more.

What I do know, is that Poland had a long history of serfdom. Serfs were the lowest class in Poland and they were tied to the land that they lived on, with minimal freedom to move around. Serfs were required to farm a number of days a week, or weeks a year for the nobility. In early days it may have been a few weeks a year, eventually becoming one day a week, and then eventually hitting a peak of 8-9 days a week, meaning that the head of the family needed to labor for the lord every single day AND a family member also needed to contribute labor. The rest of the family would be required to do the work on their own land to survive.

This system started to change during the 18th century, and serfs saw some improvements in their situations. Farming for the nobility turned into paying money for rent. It actually seems to have gotten to a point that Poland turned into a bit of a safe haven for peasants across Europe because they had something resembling rights.

Unfortunately, after the partitions of Poland, all of those rights basically disappeared again, and serfdom stuck around until the mid-19th century. Here's a short blurb from wikipedia "In the 19th century, various reforms took place at different paces in the Austrian partition, Prussian partition, and the Russian partition with the advent of industrialization. Serfdom was abolished in Prussia in 1807, in Austria in 1848, in Russia in 1861, and in the Congress Kingdom of Poland in 1864."

Here comes a bit of a hypothesis on my part. Pairing the above information with what dnowicki said about the birth dates, and coming from Eastern Galicia, I wonder if the area felt more Russian influence that Austrian? This would mean that the eradication of serfdom in the area that Katarzyna was from may have been around the time that her children had been born. Also, I wouldn't only assume that she was a servant, though it is absolutely possible! "Serva vaga" seems to be more of a class indicator rather than a job title. Because she had no specific ties to land or family she would have found things very difficult. She may have been able to find work doing menial labor for landed serfs, moving from farm to farm as work was needed. There is also a possibility that she engaged in sex-work. Being a single woman at that time period, with no family to help her, it is a real possibility.

I hope some of what I've shared or hypothesized makes some sense to you about Katarzyna's life. Good luck in your search!

Shannon

Re: Illegitimacy in Old Galicia

Trish — Sun Mar 08, 2026 5:01 pm

Author: Trish

Posted: Sun Mar 08, 2026 5:01 pm

Hi Jeff and Dave,

Jeff, my great-great-grandmother, Franciszka Pisarska had 7 illegitimate children. The children all had her surname of Pisarski. Two of the children died in Poland. The remaining 5 brothers all came to the USA. The 5 brothers all named Wincenty Belling as their father on various USA records such as marriage and/or death. These records include both USA civil records and USA Roman Catholic Church records. Descendants of the 5 brothers, including myself, all did their DNA. Our DNA matches that we have the same set of great-great-grandparents which would be Franciszka Pisarska and Wincenty Belling.

Just wanted to share my story.
Regards,
Trish

Re: Illegitimacy in Old Galicia

J-P Morski — Tue Mar 03, 2026 6:42 am

Author: J-P Morski

Posted: Tue Mar 03, 2026 6:42 am

Hi Dave!

Million billion thanks for your lengthy and informative reply to my post about my illegitimate paternal great-grandfather and his family. I appreciate your time and attention enormously! How can I repay this enormous kindness?

Could I impose further and ask for your informed opinion on what might have possibly been Katarzyna's backstory? One illegitimate child is "normal" we can say. But 4 or more? Also, her social status of a "serva vaga" which I assume would preclude her from taking care of the children herself. My great-grandfather's kids never spoke about his being an "orphan" (that was the official story). The family was ultra-Catholic and, of course, this was a scandal and an embarrassment. The only people who would truly know the backstory are long deceased. Any thoughts as to the life she lived, how she ended up in such a condition and anything else you could or would comment upon will be enormously appreciated.

I don't have the birth registers for the other two kids. At least, I haven't located them yet. I originally did my family history decades ago when you had to order microfilms from Salt Lake City and write letters on paper to vital statistics offices and archives. My father's mother and my mother's parents are East Galician ethnic Ukrainians so I found a lot in Lviv at the TsDIAL. Family members in Ukraine also provided some information. As did my many trips over the years (I am originally from Canada but now based in Tbilisi). Marcin, my great-grandfather, married a woman from neighbouring Lipsko, started a family and emigrated to Canada. His brother Wojciech married and had a family in Belzec and surrounding areas. I have tracked them down. I found a family in southern Brazil as well with ties to Belzec but we haven't been able to make the connection yet because from the Brazilian side, they don't have a lot of information on the immigrant ancestor. My mother's Ukrainian peeps also emigrated to Brazil (and Canada and the US).

Katarzyna's story has intrigued me and saddened me for years. I can't imagine the life she lived. I've imagined many scenarios from rapes to prostitution to being the concubine of the village noble to being super model beautiful to being a bad ass who fell out of line... all ridiculous, now, I know.

Thank you again for taking the time to share your knowledge and expertise. Looking forward to hearing from you again at your convenience.

Jeff

Re: Illegitimacy in Old Galicia

dnowicki — Sun Mar 01, 2026 12:59 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2026 12:59 pm

J-P Morski wrote:

Looking for some input from the Galician historians and experts in the group. Here is the scenario: my great-great-grandmother Katarzyna Pichnicka had at least 4 illegitimate children - Maria in 1861, Michal in 1863, Wojciech in 1867 and my great-grandfather Marcin in 1874 in Bełżec. At least, this is what I know from existing records (and family stories). The children took her surname. You can see from the two attached records for Maria and Michal, no father is listed. On my great-grandfather Marcin's wedding record, he is also listed as the illegitimate son of Katarzyna Pichnicka with no father listed. I am thinking that perhaps her status ("conditio") might offer some clues. All I can make out is "serva" which is "maid" or "servant." If anyone can translate the full entry, I will be grateful. Any thoughts on what could be the backstory here? Marcin's family (immigrants to Canada) never spoke of this and my father's ultra-prude Catholic aunties, even if they knew, would have never talked about the "scandal." Curious, again, as to the possible backstory.

i J P Morski,

Basically the information in the two B&B records you posted ios identical with the exception of the details which are specific to the birth of each child. The given names will be translated into Polish followed by their English veresion.

The child specific info:
For Maria: Born—January 24, 1861 in house #47 in Bełzec; Baptized—Jan. 25 by the local curate; Midwife: Barbara Skowronek; the illegitimate daughter of Katarzyna/Catherine, the daughter of Antoni/Anthony Piechnicki and Franciszka/Frances née Łubrzycka, who were farmers in Brzeziny Bełzeckie *. Status/condition of life of the mother: a vagrant servant who gave birth residing in Bełzec; The sponsors aka godparents were Jakub/Jacob/James Lasota & Magdalena/Magdalene Pelz who were both beggars from Lipsko.

For Michał/Michael: Born September 4, 1863 in house #141 in Bełzec; Baptized—Sept. 6, 1863 by the local curate; Midwife: Marua Malinowska; the illegitimate son of Katarzyna/Catherine, the daughter of Antoni/Anthony Piechnicki and Franciszka/Frances née Łubrzycka, who once ** were farmers in Brzeziny Bełzeckie *. Status/condition of life of the mother: a vagrant servant who gave birth residing in Bełzec; The sponsors aka godparents were Szymon/Simon Leszczyński & Katarzyna/Catherine Herko(?) who were both beggars from Lipsko.

Notes:
*Brzeziny Bełzeckie: on maps of the region the village appears as Brzeziny but since there many places with that name Bełzeckie is added to specify the exact village. Brzeziny is approximately 5.4 km (3.4 miles to the south and west of Bełzec.

**olim/once signifies that her parents were deceased.

Searching for information about the unnamed father is a dead end. The only way that the father of an illegitimate child can appear in a birth record is if the father gives a sworn statement of paternity. It can happen but it is extremely rare. What is unusual is that Katarzyna/Catherine had four illegitimate children. What usually took place was that the mother resided with her parents who supported her and the child. Often the mother did marry later but usually to a widower who needed a wife to care forr the children of his first marriage. If Katarzyna/Catherine’s parents were deceased at the time of the birth of the first child the mother would find it very difficult to support herself and her child unless a relative took her in.There are many possible reasons why the mother did not/could not marry the father of the child. An important take away from your records is that Katarzyna/Catherine had a difficult life. The records are of no help in determining whether the four children were full siblings or half siblings. The individuals she was able to call upon to be baptismal sponsors/godparents were marginalized members of society (beggars).

If you would like to post the B&B records of Wojciech and Marcin I would be happy to see if there any clues to help you in your research.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Illegitimacy in Old Galicia

J-P Morski — Thu Feb 26, 2026 8:40 am

Author: J-P Morski

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 8:40 am

Looking for some input from the Galician historians and experts in the group. Here is the scenario: my great-great-grandmother Katarzyna Pichnicka had at least 4 illegitimate children - Maria in 1861, Michal in 1863, Wojciech in 1867 and my great-grandfather Marcin in 1874 in Bełżec. At least, this is what I know from existing records (and family stories). The children took her surname. You can see from the two attached records for Maria and Michal, no father is listed. On my great-grandfather Marcin's wedding record, he is also listed as the illegitimate son of Katarzyna Pichnicka with no father listed. I am thinking that perhaps her status ("conditio") might offer some clues. All I can make out is "serva" which is "maid" or "servant." If anyone can translate the full entry, I will be grateful. Any thoughts on what could be the backstory here? Marcin's family (immigrants to Canada) never spoke of this and my father's ultra-prude Catholic aunties, even if they knew, would have never talked about the "scandal." Curious, again, as to the possible backstory.

Update: In the last days, I have, unexpectedly, found the birth entries for 3 other children. Please see attachments.