PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Franz Anton's brother Josef Franz Florian's descendants

yapper — Fri Mar 20, 2026 3:33 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Fri Mar 20, 2026 3:33 pm

I found a family tree for Josef Andermann which indicates that he remained in Prussia but I am unable to find any source records in Family Search

1833 Josef Franz Florian ANDERMANN married Anna Maria Theresia Konstanstine Karoline HIEMER in Glasendorf, Grottkau, Schlesien (which I think is Grodkow or Grasendolf, Opole, Silesia?)

Josef & Karoline had 7 children all born in Grottkau - most of their descendants married & died there as well. Is there any type of census in Poland that can be accessed to search for more clues?

Not sure how to track them but curious if any living relatives are still in Poland today??

Re: 2 witnesses with same surname Mildner

Sophia — Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:55 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2026 5:55 pm

yapper wrote:

Taking a closer look at both guys records & I noticed that there were 2 possible relatives:

1803 baptism for Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN has Joseph MILDNER (local farmer) listed as witness
1804 marriage for Josef Andermann + Barbara Nachtigall (parents of Franz Anton Amand ANDERMANN baptized in 1812) has Anton MILDNER (local farmer/lay assessor) as witness

Perhaps, Mildner family related to Andermanns or Nachtigalls or both??

Hi Laurie,

Nice Work! This could be a good lead to follow. I suppose you could now look at baptisms and marriages for Mildner individuals and study who their witnesses were, in order to figure out whether it was your Andermanns or your Nachtigalls who were connected to the Mildner family.

Sophia

2 witnesses with same surname Mildner

yapper — Wed Mar 11, 2026 4:45 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Wed Mar 11, 2026 4:45 pm

Taking a closer look at both guys records & I noticed that there were 2 possible relatives:

1803 baptism for Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN has Joseph MILDNER (local farmer) listed as witness
1804 marriage for Josef Andermann + Barbara Nachtigall (parents of Franz Anton Amand ANDERMANN baptized in 1812) has Anton MILDNER (local farmer/lay assessor) as witness

Perhaps, Mildner family related to Andermanns or Nachtigalls or both??

Cross referencing siblings

yapper — Sat Feb 28, 2026 11:12 am

Author: yapper

Posted: Sat Feb 28, 2026 11:12 am

Thanks Xavron - looking for any possible pieces to solve this puzzle

Antonius Josephus grandfather Mucke

yapper — Fri Feb 27, 2026 5:37 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2026 5:37 pm

I am not able to find any other children of Christoph Andermann & Theresia Muckin, therefore, unable to locate any siblings for Antonius Josephus. However, I did find a death record for what I think could be his grandfather Franz Mucke (born 1758 died 1832) in the same village. Perhaps, there is more info to get from this record?

Looking at the siblings and cross-referencing the baptismal

Xavron — Fri Feb 27, 2026 4:26 pm

Author: Xavron

Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2026 4:26 pm

Looking at the siblings and cross-referencing the baptismal dates might really help narrow down which Andermann actually emigrated—sometimes the family patterns give away clues the individual records don’t

Franz Anton siblings

yapper — Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:21 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:21 pm

It appears that parents of Franz (Josef Andermann + Barbara Nachtigall) were married in 1804. I found records that they had 2 more children - Josef Franz Florian (born 1806) & Amand Franz (born 1808). Could information on one of his brothers possibly provide more leads?

Re: Andermann/Katterlet marriage

Sophia — Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:20 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 12:20 pm

yapper wrote:

I have the original marriage (summary page attached - have detailed translated version as well) from Louisiana catholic church records

Also, I have Katterlet/Katterle family records back to 1777 in Belfort, department of Haut-Rhin, region of Alsace, France
Hortense's father (Francois Antoine Katterle) died in Belfort, France so it can't be him on the census record. Her mother, (Marie Marguerite Roy Katterle) however, died in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Very interesting, thanks for the explanation.

On your other thread about the Andermann emigration, I did give a link to the ship manifest for Hortense and now that I see you have the name of her mother, I am certain that is the "M. Katterlet" that Hortense was travelling with on that ship.

Best regards,
Sophia

Andermann/Katterlet marriage

yapper — Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:41 am

Author: yapper

Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2026 11:41 am

I have the original marriage (summary page attached - have detailed translated version as well) from Louisiana catholic church records

Also, I have Katterlet/Katterle family records back to 1777 in Belfort, department of Haut-Rhin, region of Alsace, France
Hortense's father (Francois Antoine Katterle) died in Belfort, France so it can't be him on the census record. Her mother, (Marie Marguerite Roy Katterle) however, died in New Orleans, Louisiana.

Re: 2 Prussian Andermanns

Sophia — Mon Feb 23, 2026 8:15 pm

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2026 8:15 pm

Hi Laurie,

I have been thinking about your Hortense "Katterlet" and wondering what the original French spelling of that name might be. In looking at family names in the parish of Saint James, I came across the surname Caillouet. Do you think it is possible that this is her surname? (It would have to be that the person writing the manifest misunderstood the double LL as a double TT which might be a bit of a stretch.) I'm sure that in all of the documents you have gathered from Louisiana, you must have seen a few versions of it. Do you have an image of the record of her marriage to Antoine, or did you just find it in an index?

Best regards,
Sophia

Re: Gender surnames

Sophia — Sat Feb 21, 2026 7:49 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2026 7:49 am

yapper wrote:

Oh nice tidbit
Thanks for sharing

Hi Laurie,

Well, at least I know now where I got that idea from. It's from a translation that Michael did for you in 2022:

https://forum.polishorigins.com/viewtopic.php?t=18733&highlight=

Best regards,
Sophia

Gender surnames

yapper — Fri Feb 20, 2026 1:33 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2026 1:33 pm

Oh nice tidbit
Thanks for sharing

Re: Maiden names Mucke or Nachtigall

Sophia — Fri Feb 20, 2026 9:55 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2026 9:55 am

yapper wrote:

Thank you Sophia for all your efforts & feedback!

Perhaps maiden name of either guy's mother MUCKE/MUCKIN or NACHTIGALL could provide further insight?

Let me know your thoughts?

Hi,

I will see what I can do with that, when I have the chance to get back to searching. I just want to add one quick note here now, that in my opinion the surname Mückin is the feminine form of the surname Mücke, which is why you see Marie Theresa Mückin's father's name as Franz Mücke. We don't usually think of German surnames taking masculine and feminine forms, but I think that they did centuries ago.

Best regards,
Sophia

Maiden names Mucke or Nachtigall

yapper — Fri Feb 20, 2026 9:08 am

Author: yapper

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2026 9:08 am

Thank you Sophia for all your efforts & feedback!

Perhaps maiden name of either guy's mother MUCKE/MUCKIN or NACHTIGALL could provide further insight?

Let me know your thoughts?

Re: 2 Prussian Andermanns

Sophia — Fri Feb 20, 2026 5:33 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Fri Feb 20, 2026 5:33 am

Hi Yapper,

I spent some time with this and am unable to find evidence of either of the two Andermanns you named in your first post staying in the Weigelsdorf area, nor could I find evidence of either of them emigrating, but that does not mean that someone else with either more persistence or more luck couldn't find them.

What I can say is this. Looking at the Andermann family in the 1850 census for the Parish of St. James is more illuminating than looking at the 1840 census alone, because it gave names and ages. I'm sure you already have this record. The surname was spelled Andremann. It shows A. Andremann, age 45 (suggesting he was born in 1805) so it suggests he is more likely to be the Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN who was born in 1803 in Weigelsdorf. His family consisted of Hortense (37), Amelina (13), Ernest (11) and other children, but I name these because they correspond nicely with 2 of the 3 males and both of the 2 females who showed up in the 1840 census. What is missing, of course, is the one other male who was 40 to 50 years old in 1840 and had either moved out of the household by 1850 or had died. The question is, who was that other man in 1840? The instructions to the census enumerators were this: "That every person whose usual place of abode shall be in any family on [June 1, 1840], shall be returned as of such family...." as you can see here:

https://www.census.gov/programs-surveys/decennial-census/technical-documentation/questionnaires.1840_Census.html

What it didn't do was actually define what a family was. Later years for the census allow you see people in a household who are boarders or lodgers, for example, who are not related to the head-of-household but who lived in the household. For this 1840 census, I think we are leaning towards interpreting that 40-50 year old man as part of the family. Perhaps he was Hortense's father? I cannot solve your puzzle, but I do lean towards the 1803 Antoine being yours.

Best regards,
Sophia

AndeLmann / AnTeLmann vs AndeRmann

yapper — Wed Feb 18, 2026 7:27 am

Author: yapper

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 7:27 am

Perhaps, misspelling of surname but this doesn't appear to be either AndeRmann - related marriage record in 1842 for Fritz Paul Oscar AndeLmann's parents shows his father Johann Anton AnTeLmann born in 1818??

Re: 2 Prussian Andermanns

Sophia — Wed Feb 18, 2026 6:53 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Wed Feb 18, 2026 6:53 am

Does this help at all? There is a Fritz Paul Oscar Andermann, whose father's name was Anton, born in 1850 in Breslau. Might that indicate that one of your Anton (Antonius, Antoine) candidates did not emigrate?

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:6ZM4-Z8Y4?lang=en

Sophia

Prussian parents of 2 Andermanns

yapper — Mon Feb 16, 2026 9:18 am

Author: yapper

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2026 9:18 am

Thanks for your offer. During my research of over 20 years, I have exhausted any and all records of my Antoine here in America. If you are willing, what I could use your help on is any further records that could be uncovered in Europe. Utilizing the baptismal records of the 2 Andermanns, I was able to go backwards to their parent’s marriages but have not been able to find any further records forward on either of them in Prussia/Poland

1803 Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN
Father Christoph ANDERMANN / mother Theresa Muckin
1803 Catholic marriage in same location Johann Christoph (born 1777) age 26 father Joh ANDERMANN + Maria Theresa Muckin (born 1785) age 18 father Franz Mucke
1832 possible burial record in same location for father in law Franz Mucke (born 1758)

1812 Franz Anton Amand ANDERMANN
Father Joseph ANDERMANN / mother Barbara Nachtigall
1804 Catholic marriage in same location (born 1775) age 29 father Josef ANDERMANN + Maria Barbara Nachtigall (born 1776) age 28 father Joseph Nachtigall

Re: 2 Prussian Andermanns

Sophia — Mon Feb 16, 2026 6:13 am

Author: Sophia

Posted: Mon Feb 16, 2026 6:13 am

yapper wrote:

Ok, so I think that I have located my German ancestor Antoine Andermann.

However, there are 2 possible guys & the problem is how to distinguish who is mine:

1803 Catholic baptism of Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN in Weigelsdorf (village) Reichenbach (high district) Breslau (lower district) Schlesien (province) PreuBen (Prussia) Deutschland (Germany)

1812 Catholic baptism of Franz Anton Amand ANDERMANN in Weigelsdorf (village) Reichenbach (high district) Breslau (lower district) Schlesien (province) PreuBen (Prussia) Deutschland (Germany)

renamed Wigancice / Wroclaw / Silesia / Poland after WWII

The first record that I have of my Antoine is his marriage in 1835 in New Orleans, Louisiana but there is no age listed and more importantly there are no parents listed.

The Louisiana 1840 census in St James parish lists 2 male ANDERMANs with an age range of approximately 10 years apart - could this be both guys in America together? If so, how did they arrive here? There is no immigration record of either Antonius or Anton. My research indicates that there was an emigration in 1830 during the Polish rebellion against Russians. Perhaps, both males migrated to America by way of another country?

My guy died in 1858 but there is a discrepancy in his death records indicating that he was either 45 or 55 so either birth date could be his (again an age range of 10 years).

Any further insight that you can provide for either man since they probably are related could be helpful in narrowing down my guy or open up a new lead to another branch of my Andermann cousins?

One more tidbit that may be worth noting. My ancestor Antoine had a grandson in 1889 the was named Antoine SMOLOK Andermann. A variation of this surname (Smolek) can be found in Poland, therefore, perhaps he was named after a relative?

Thanks for your assistance in tracking down my ancestor and any potential related branches of my extended family

Hi Yapper,

It's an interesting question, and it certainly does not help when you find a marriage record that lists neither the age of the groom nor his parents. This could be a tough one to solve.

I went to look at the Federal 1840 census in Louisiana but I only found one Antoine Andermann, here in the Parish of St. James, specifically on the left bank of the river:

https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XHTD-PB2?lang=en

It shows Antoine as the head of household, and it shows that this household consisted of 3 males (one who was younger than 5 years of age, one in the age bracket 30-40 and one in the age bracket 40-50) as well as 2 females (one under 5 and the other between 20-30). In the 1840 census, you only learn the name of the head of household and not the names of anyone else in the family which adds to the complexity of researching this period of time.

If you'd like to upload images or provide links for some of the other documents you are talking about, I'd be happy to take a look at them.

In answer to your question about the two Andermanns that you found baptisms for in Weigelsdorf, it could be worth trying to look for subsequent records in Weigelsdorf to see whether you find one of them staying there, for instance marrying there or dying there, as a way of ruling out the possibility that they both emigrated. It would be good to find one (or both!) on a ship manifest. Often in that timeframe there is very little identifying information on the manifest, including the fact that the first name may only show up as an initial, for example A. Andermann.

Best regards,
Sophia

2 Prussian Andermanns

yapper — Sun Feb 15, 2026 12:28 pm

Author: yapper

Posted: Sun Feb 15, 2026 12:28 pm

Ok, so I think that I have located my German ancestor Antoine Andermann.

However, there are 2 possible guys & the problem is how to distinguish who is mine:

1803 Catholic baptism of Antonius Josephus Franciscus ANDERMANN in Weigelsdorf (village) Reichenbach (high district) Breslau (lower district) Schlesien (province) PreuBen (Prussia) Deutschland (Germany)

1812 Catholic baptism of Franz Anton Amand ANDERMANN in Weigelsdorf (village) Reichenbach (high district) Breslau (lower district) Schlesien (province) PreuBen (Prussia) Deutschland (Germany)

renamed Wigancice / Wroclaw / Silesia / Poland after WWII

The first record that I have of my Antoine is his marriage in 1835 in New Orleans, Louisiana but there is no age listed and more importantly there are no parents listed.

The Louisiana 1840 census in St James parish lists 2 male ANDERMANs with an age range of approximately 10 years apart - could this be both guys in America together? If so, how did they arrive here? There is no immigration record of either Antonius or Anton. My research indicates that there was an emigration in 1830 during the Polish rebellion against Russians. Perhaps, both males migrated to America by way of another country?

My guy died in 1858 but there is a discrepancy in his death records indicating that he was either 45 or 55 so either birth date could be his (again an age range of 10 years).

Any further insight that you can provide for either man since they probably are related could be helpful in narrowing down my guy or open up a new lead to another branch of my Andermann cousins?

One more tidbit that may be worth noting. My ancestor Antoine had a grandson in 1889 the was named Antoine SMOLOK Andermann. A variation of this surname (Smolek) can be found in Poland, therefore, perhaps he was named after a relative?

Thanks for your assistance in tracking down my ancestor and any potential related branches of my extended family