PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Can't find the correct town

Zenon — Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:25 am

Author: Zenon

Posted: Thu Jul 23, 2009 4:25 am

Mary,

I looked at all 12 scans you sent to me.

Place of birth of your grandmother is Dąbrowa Górnicza, all the letters from possible family members from the times just after WWII are from Silesia region (Sosnowiec, Dąbrowa Górnicza). From this information we can conclude now that at least one thing seems to be clear - marriage of your grandparents took place in Będzin, Silesia region (click here for map: http://tr.im/tEex ).

Now about place of birth of your grandfather Pacanów. Last residence of your grandfather is either Pacanow or something like Ksiszniac. Very close to both Pacanow there are villages which pronunciation may be similar: Książnica nearby Pacanów, Busko county (map: http://tr.im/tEje ) and Kuźnica nearby Pacanów I think it is the Pacanów, Kłobuck county (map: http://tr.im/tEjU )

I would start from the trial of getting marriage certificate from Bedzin, Silesia, which may provide more information about your Pacanow in request.

Reply to Bedzin

theeast — Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:17 am

Author: theeast

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 11:17 am

Zenon,

I have gone to the link you suggested to find an address to research records for my grandparents. They are Catholic and the records don't go up totheir births of 1875 and 1889. And, there aren't any available records for their marriage in 1903. I have sent to Katowice for my grandparent's marriage records and my grandmother's birth record in 2001. Enclosed are the letters. Note: My name was Mary Hein. I never heard from them. Then, I sent for my grandfather's birth record in Krakow. They said I had to send money, which I did. They could find no records for him.

Also, I am sending you my grandparent's naturalization and ship manifest records. My grandfather is listed as Licgawiec (coming to the US in 1906), which is incorrect. I have a letter from Stanislaw Legawiec from Gandz (a brother who must have moved there in the 1940's) and it is spelled Legawiec. My grandmother only shows coming to the US in 1912 and I know she was here before because two of the children with her were born in the US.

You are right about them living in Russian controlled Poland because my grandfather told my mother stories of how the Russians came and took him from his home and put him in their army. He spoke of paltry conditions - bed bugs, freezing, sleeping on the ground, etc. I have a copy of his Russian military booklet and it says 1898 on it. That must have been when he went into their service.

I have enclosed some letters and envelopes with addresses on them stating larger towns (I think). These are letters were written in the 1940's. I do not know any of the names or even if they are relatives. I ws surprised that there was another Dobrowa close to Pacanow (Pacanoff spelling in naturalization records) above Dobrowa, Gorn. So, maybe this is where they did come from. But, if I have already sent records and the link you gave me doesn't have later records, where would I go to find any information on them?

I really do appreciate all the time and effort you have put into my research. I will try to attach some of the above documents. If it doesn't work, I will try to do it through your email address.

Again, thanks for your help.....
Mary

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Re: Can't find the correct town

Zenon — Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:46 am

Author: Zenon

Posted: Wed Jul 01, 2009 6:46 am

You are right, the best starting point would be a marriage certificate because of the most information which can be found in it.

When I read your message my first thoughts were Bedzin and Dabrowa Gornicza, both located close by each other in the Silesia region (click here for map: http://tr.im/qrr1 ). Pretty close is Ksiazenice, click here: http://tr.im/qrA0 .

But the Pacanow didn't fit the whole picture. I decided to "move" to the first Pacanow, Kłobuck county area then. This is what I found click on the link: http://tr.im/qrD4 , point A is Pacanow, point B is Dabrowa.

But.... Nearby the second Pacanow, Busko county, you can find very close Książnice Click here: http://tr.im/qrJ5

This is a great puzzle, and I am puzzled To make the search "a little" more complicated all three areas belonged to Russia at that time and were very close to Austria, Prussia or Austria and Prussia border, click here for map of Polish territory in 19th century http://forum.polishorigins.com/files/map_polish_territory_in_19_century_437.jpg .

Now, the Bedzin mentioned at the beginning is not the only town of similar sounding. There is one of similar name "Bedzyn" here: http://tr.im/qrLA not far from Czestochowa (the analyzed third area).

I can see now two ways of further investigation:

1. If only you can provide any additional hints regarding the location please do this (at best, bigger town or river in the neighborhood).

2. If not, I would try from the first found Bedzin in Silesia. In Polish State Archives in Katowice branch there are quite many records from Bedzin parish, click here: http://tr.im/qrNb . You can contact them and ask for records from years you are interested in. I recommend you to read this article http://polishorigins.com/document/archives_practical_hints about the research process in State Archives in Poland.

Can't find correct town

theeast — Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:15 pm

Author: theeast

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 3:15 pm

I think it would be best if I tried to find Bendzin (their spelling on the naturalization papers). Wouldn't that tell me where they were born and who their parents are? If I went to Kziaznica, I think the only thing I would learn is that Fanina (the aunt) was born there. I don't think the information would only give me the grandparent's and the aunt's information. How much information do you get when you go to their birth towns. I guess I'm trying to find the simplest way of starting to locate them.

Re: Can't find the correct town

Zenon — Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:57 pm

Author: Zenon

Posted: Tue Jun 30, 2009 2:57 pm

Welcome to the Forum theeast,

Which of the mentioned towns location are you trying to find? All of them?

Can't find the correct town

theeast — Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:20 pm

Author: theeast

Posted: Mon Jun 29, 2009 5:20 pm

My grandparents came to the US in 1906. My grandfather, born in 1875, came from Pacanow. My grandmother, born 1889, came from Dabrowa. They were married in Bendzin and lived in Ksiaznica where my 1st aunt was born. My grandfather was forced into the Russian/Japanese war. Also, he played in the Philaharmonic Orchestra in Poland. My grandmother came back in 1912 because her father left her some land. She probably came back to sell it. My problem is that there are several towns with the same names. I do not have the county, province, etc. that they originated from. The information I have is from their naturalization and immigration papers. Where would I go to find more information about them?

Thanks for any help you can give me.