PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Birth Date discrepencies on documents & what family Used

MDuplaga — Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:32 pm

Author: MDuplaga

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:32 pm

Gilberto,

I will make a couple inquiries to see if I can learn more about the Birth Certificate procedures in Poland before 1910 as my relatives emigrated earlier!

Thanks once again,
MaryAnne

Re: Birth Date discrepencies on documents & what family Used

Anonymous — Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:15 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 3:15 pm

You are welcome. I don't know if parents were provided a birth record by the time of the event. However, I am pretty sure they were given a copy of it when they were about to immigrate. I have seen many of these cases, mostly of people who were leaving from Galicia about 1910.
Gilberto

Birth Date discrepencies on documents & what family Used

MDuplaga — Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:31 pm

Author: MDuplaga

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 1:31 pm

Gilberto,

You have provided me with some excellent possibilities in consideration of my dilema!

You are absolutely correct in your explanation about the various records and who would most likely be the "Provider" of information at the "Tme" of those particular events. I, have even given incorrect info on my Mother's death certificate, precisely because I didn't know the spelling of her mother's maiden name, as I'd never seen it written out and there was no document available to go to, so that I could provide a correct spelling.

Your last paragraph explanation makes absolute sense to me for my Great Aunt's case. There was a sibling born in 1882 that I have a church record for, so I was certain she was not born that year. I know My Greatgrandmother had 9 children, so it is totally possible and understandable that her recall may not have been perfect.
Although I've known the Church Record would be the ultimate record to consider as CORRECT, this new perspective makes me feel more confident in using the church record date to "set the record" straight, within the family!!

This brings up the question: Were the Parents provided with a Birth document upon each Birth in Austria/Poland in the later 1880's??? And was this document lost, misplaced or destroyed in some manner?

My GreatUncle, a sibling of this GreatAunt did have a document that appears to have been provided upon birth in 1876. Their brother, my Grandfather, did not have the same type of document, so in 1954 he sent to Poland to get a document with his birth information on it. However, it appeared to be very condensed in content compared to his brother's document, that contained similar information to the Church record, including the house number.

Thank you Gilberto, for teaching me something new. Your reply indicates that you are a seasoned researcher and I appreciate that you share what you have learned with all of us!
MaryAnne

Re: Birth Date discrepencies on documents & what family Used

Anonymous — Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:20 am

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Sat Aug 20, 2011 7:20 am

Hi, MaryAnne

I, too, have found a vast difference in ages in polish records. In birth certificates, for instance, the declarant was usually the father, and there is no reason to think he wouldn't be aware of his own age.

However, I have seen many cases where the age of the father varies too much, say, 28 yo in 1880, 36 yo in 1882, 29 yo in 1883 and so on, which is very confusing. I assume that in such cases the clerk who wrote down the record knew everyone in the village - specially the small ones - and didn't even ask the father "How old are you?". That would explain why ages and years vary too much.

Another point of view, when it comes to dates of birth for men, is that they (or their fathers) would possibly give a wrong date of birth in order to avoid the military service (specially in the russian army).

Also, I have learned with more experienced researchers that birth records tend to be more reliable than marriage records, and marriage records more reliable than death records. This makes sense because a birth was usually registered within a week after it occurred, so the information was pretty fresh in everyone's mind. On the other hand a death record may be the opposite, specially if the deceased had no longer spouse or kids, and his/her death was reported by friends or neighboors who didn't know too much about him/her. This is specially true for people who moved away from their birthplaces.

Maybe your ancestor used 1882 as her birth age, because that was the year she was told about. When we are children we know our birthdates because our parentes tell us so. What if they told us a wrong date? Couples who had many children may be not pretty sure about the correct day, month and year of every child. We would only know our correct birthdate on the day we put our eyes in our birth certificate.

Hope this will help you a bit.

Gilberto

Birth Date discrepencies on documents & what family Used

MDuplaga — Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Author: MDuplaga

Posted: Fri Aug 19, 2011 5:22 pm

Hi Everyone,

I have a situation where a Great Aunt immigrated to the U.S. in 1906. She married in Poland in 1905 at the age of 18 yrs. & 8 Months. It clearly says on the Polish Church Marriage record that both the Father's signed & gave permission for the "minor" children to marry. ( I have no idea what was considered legal age to marry in Poland, but that is irrelevant)
If she was 18 yr.s & 8 Mo. when she married in 1905, it would make sense that she was born in the year 1886 and was just 4 months short of being 19 yrs. old, upon marriage 14 Feb. 1905.

The problem that I encounter is that I now have the Polish Church record for her birth and it indicates that she was Born & Baptised on 26 June "1886"
I feel confident that this is the Correct record, as the parents are correct, the house number is correct and there are two additions added to the record. One is the name of her spouse and the date of their marriage. The second is the date she immigrated in 1906.

However, her family has always celebrated her birthday and she used the date of 27 June "1882". So the Month IS correct and the Day is only One day off--but I find it puzzeling that her Birth YEAR could be off by "4 years". Why would she need to state she is 4 years Older than she actually is, especially since she is close to 19 anyway.
I find a "4 Year" discrepency to be excessively off.

Have any of you encountered such a vast difference in ages?? And figured out reasons that we might find such a vast span of incorrect Year dates??? (Since the father's signed for them to marry, that eliminates any need to lie on that record)

Thanks for any ideas you may suggest as to WHY there would be such a vast difference in the birthdate she used in the U.S. from her actual birthdate in 1886.

MaryAnne