PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:58 am

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Tue Feb 25, 2014 11:58 am

Hey, Shellie, I am back, see my post on mailing an envelope to Poland, lol. I have not been able to make much headway on my research, but I hope to be able to get some information going forward.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Shellie — Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:30 am

Author: Shellie

Posted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 10:30 am

Typeogirl,
Do you have any updates on your search? I am curious to hear what you have learned since your last posting!

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Bill Rushin — Thu May 17, 2012 9:22 am

Author: Bill Rushin

Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 9:22 am

I sent you a private msg, my map will not load just yet, I will try again later today. Bill

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Thu May 17, 2012 7:54 am

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Thu May 17, 2012 7:54 am

I just wanted to give everyone an update on my progress. And I have a question, based deduction and logic....

I got the information back from the cemetery. Very little information to be had, almost nothing. No information other than names for my great grandparents John and Margaretta, but the funeral homes are listed so I am going that route next. But, one person.... my aunt, her birthplace was listed!!!!, and that is a major clue that I needed, since I knew that they were all (except one) born in PA. So it turns out she was born in Chester, PA. I looked up Chester, and I saw that there was a polish immigrant community serviced by St. Hedwigs Church.

So here is my question, I went to the 1910 Census for Chester PA on Ancestry.com and I found a family, "Kanzack" there. There is a John, Margaret, and the first four children are listed (for 1910 it would make sense two were not born yet). The ages/immigration/marriage dates on John and Margaret don't quite jive, but the names and ages of the kids match perfectly. What is throwing me off is this, the country that John and Margaret claim to be from is Germany, but in the column for languages it says Polish. Why would they say they are from Germany? So could this not be my family? I have a feeling it is them, but why would they say they were from Germany?

What does everyone think, should I deduce that this is my family? And does anyone know about the Polish community in Chester, PA, and why they would tell the census taker they were from Germany? I appreciate everyones thoughts and ideas. Thank you!

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:05 am

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Wed Apr 25, 2012 9:05 am

Just an update... The cemetery got my letter, 11 people is an "extraordinary request", so I have to pay a fee.... LOL. I had a feeling that would happen.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:24 am

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 7:24 am

Thanks Shellie. All the folks in my research died in NJ, were all born in PA. I went to the website and looked anyway, just in case.

The birth years are 1903, 1905, 1907, 1910 and 1914-all in PA. I assume next year, the birth in 1907, I may be able to get a birth certificate! with information, which may help me move forward.

Hopefully the cemetery may be able to provide some leads.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Shellie — Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:23 am

Author: Shellie

Posted: Thu Apr 19, 2012 12:23 am

typeogirl wrote:

Thanks Gilberto and Cheri!

For PA it looks like next of kin only.... Do I qualify if I am trying to get birth/death certificates for my great-grandparents and their children - my aunts/uncles? Also, how do I request for a certificate if I don't know the town?

I know the name, and the state, and the approximate year... My one Aunt and my Grandfather were born in PA - but I don't have the town, but I do have exact birth and death dates. I can probably use those two as a leverage point for the rest - if I can get their info, it should lead me to the rest of the family in PA, don't you think? My other Aunt was born in NJ, I have her exact dates too, and the town. But since I am trying to track them backwards in PA in 1910... I guess I should try to get the info on my Aunt & Grandfather that were born there...

If I provide a driver's license, how does PA or NJ determine my relationship? Just wondering.

Typogirl,
There have been some recent changes associated with vital records in Pennsylvania and many records are now considered public records and are much easier to obtain. Read the info on the PA state link below and if your ancestor died between 1906 and 1961 you can browse the pdf files with the lists of deaths in PA. You don't have to prove any relation because these records are now considered public record - but the new form must have the death record registration number that you will find in the index. Cost is 3 dollars. Since you know the death dates for several of your relatives, it should speed up your search. Good Luck!!!

http://www.portal.state.pa.us/portal/server.pt/community/public_records/20686

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:54 pm

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2012 1:54 pm

Thanks Gilberto and Cheri! Gilberto, I opened the form and I can now see how they figure out who you are. Thanks.

Cheri, thank you so much for taking all that time on my puzzle. You see my conundrum. I have stared at that 1910 census for awhile too, wondering if it was them, if the wife had a different name or a nickname, and also, like you said, was this a first wife.... Or that it was a cousin, since the children's names are so similar and I know many families name their children similar names in different branches.

The John Kensak I am researching declared his intention in 1924 (I have not gotten the naturalization papers yet) but I think it's the right guy since the wife's name is the same, the town is correct and matches the town on the census around that time. On the intention he states he came to the US in November 1899 to NY from Bremen, but I have not been able to verify it. He also states his birthdate is December 1879, but on the WWI draft registration card it is March 1875. Maybe there was some fudging there...

I called the cemetery today, there is no fees for information... which I was happy about. My dad told me about the 11 Kensaks all buried right near each other. I sent the letter requesting any and all info they could give me on the 11 Kensaks. Maybe I can get funeral home information as well. I included a SASE, I feel terrible I am asking about 11 people. I am hoping for some yields... Keeping my fingers crossed!

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:47 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 9:47 pm

You said John and Albert applied for naturalization in NJ? Do you know the year? I found the John Kensek that Shellie found on the NY passenger manifest very interesting. He is so close in age to your John. I am not saying that he is your ancestor, but it is very curious that he is from the same place as your ancestor. If he isn't your ancestor, I wonder if he could be a cousin. Don't be too hung up on the spelling of names. They could be spelled different ways in various records for the same person in Poland, as well as here in the U.S. I'm attaching a census image for what looks to be a John Kensak in 1910. I believe this is the John that Shellie found on the manifest. On the manifest he was coming to the U.S. in 1901, but he had been here in 1890. Maybe he made a short (or long) trip back to Poland. This census says that this John Kensak immigrated in 1890. It also says he was naturalized in 1910, so that's what makes me think he isn't yours, if your John applied later.

He also has a wife Annie (not Margaret), but I've seen immigrants taking different first names in different years of the census, though I think there was an age difference in Annie and Margaret, so I don't necessarily think they could be the same person. There were some similiar children's names, so that made me wonder...Jacob, the son of John in this census, is 5 in 1910. Your John's Jacob is 16 in 1920. That could be the same person. And do you know if 32 was the correct age for Margaret in 1920 (I didn't see the family in 1930, and wondered if that was consistent with 1930). If she was 32, than was she 15 when she became pregnant with Jacob, or could she be a second wife? I saw John Kensak's birthdate 6 March 1875 on his World War 1 draft registration, but his age in the 1920 census would have him born in 1874...

I do NOT want to discourage you. I am confused too, because I don't know enough to form an opinion one way or another. I just wanted you to be aware of some possibilities. The best thing that you can do is to hunt down as much documentation as you can, and you seem to be trying to do that. That way you will see the consistencies. Kensak, even with the variety of spellings, seems to be a not too common name, and that should help. I think that the Kensaks that Ute found probably are related.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Anonymous — Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:35 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 5:35 pm

typeogirl wrote:

If I provide a driver's license, how does PA or NJ determine my relationship?

Check the form attached.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:52 pm

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:52 pm

Thanks Gilberto and Cheri!

For PA it looks like next of kin only.... Do I qualify if I am trying to get birth/death certificates for my great-grandparents and their children - my aunts/uncles? Also, how do I request for a certificate if I don't know the town?

I know the name, and the state, and the approximate year... My one Aunt and my Grandfather were born in PA - but I don't have the town, but I do have exact birth and death dates. I can probably use those two as a leverage point for the rest - if I can get their info, it should lead me to the rest of the family in PA, don't you think? My other Aunt was born in NJ, I have her exact dates too, and the town. But since I am trying to track them backwards in PA in 1910... I guess I should try to get the info on my Aunt & Grandfather that were born there...

If I provide a driver's license, how does PA or NJ determine my relationship? Just wondering.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Cheri Vanden Berg — Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:14 pm

Author: Cheri Vanden Berg

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:14 pm

For New Jersey vital records http://www.state.nj.us/health/vital/gen.shtml

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Anonymous — Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:06 pm

Author: Anonymous

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:06 pm

typeogirl wrote:

Do I have to prove I am family when I contact the cemetary, or request copies of death certificates, how does that work? Do I need to prove my relationship to the people I am inquiring about?

A very good source about requesting records in PA is here. An ID issued in America is required for obtaining copies of records in Department of Health. http://www.vitalrec.com/pa.html

Gilberto

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:19 pm

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2012 1:19 pm

Thanks sheep17. I will get the name of the cemetery from my dad, I am in NJ and try calling and see what their policies are when you are requesting information.

It sounds so easy if you are in Illinois to get a death certificate... I am in NJ. I will look into how to request one. I guess I will start with the city/town first and work my way up to the state level.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

sheep17 — Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Author: sheep17

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 8:38 pm

Hi, typeogirl,

I have been to quite a few cemeteries in the Chicago area. I have never been asked to prove my identity, but you should make your questions specific. From a cemetery record you will learn the date of burial and location of the grave. It is also best to ask if the grave is a single, or multiple site, and the names/dates if others are buried there, because they may not tell you unless you ask.
Sometimes they have shared the name of the purchaser, sometimes not.
In one cemetery I visited, the clerk would provide information for only two names- I was inquiring about 4. I had to return home and write a letter for the other two and
pay $5.00 per name.
Death certificates can be ordered online - through Cookcountygenealogy.com for Chicago and the suburbs - and they accept credit cards. Their index is useful.
The Illinois Dept of Public Health fee is $10.00 for a genealogical copy of the death
certificate more than 20 years old, and you must submit a copy of your current photo ID. For death certificates between 1916 and 1947, you can also request death certificates through the Illinois State Genealogical Society - their fee is $10.00 per certificate, too.
Hope this is what you needed ---

sheep17

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Ute — Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:23 am

Author: Ute

Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2012 5:23 am

typeogirl wrote:

... Do I have to prove I am family when I contact the cemetary, or request copies of death certificates, how does that work? Do I need to prove my relationship to the people I am inquiring about?

I'm sorry, I can't help you with this question. I'm in Germany, and when I started researching my family in Chicago, I had a (paid) contact in the US who ordered some records for me, and a family member who called the cemetery for me to get information on one of my grandparents' children I found out was buried there in a term grave.

I hope another member of PolishOrigins more experienced with requesting copies of death certificates and contacting cemeteries can answer your questions.

Have you checked out the Kensaks at https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bsurname%3AKensak~

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:48 pm

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 1:48 pm

Thanks Ute! for all the info and advice.

I do agree, I probably need to take an alternate route... I am thinking of contacting the cemetary, see if they have any records on file - also maybe who purchased the plot or the headstone. Malgozata's son, died of cancer when he was 40, I have not been able to find an SS#, since I think no claims were filed, he was a hunter/trapper by trade, probably stayed on or near the farm, didn't draw a paycheck or have an employer... I think my other option would be to try to get copies of death certificates, see if there is any information there.

Do I have to prove I am family when I contact the cemetary, or request copies of death certificates, how does that work? Do I need to prove my relationship to the people I am inquiring about?

wiele uznanie! (did I say that right?)

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Ute — Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:46 am

Author: Ute

Posted: Tue Apr 10, 2012 12:46 am

typeogirl wrote:

... Not sure why the headstone says Malgozata and not Malgorzata unless it was a typo, or they ran out of room, or whoever ordered the stone was not sure of the spelling....

You are saying that “Malgozata” is buried with her son who died young. Do you know more about him? Vital records of the children of a particular couple, such as birth, baptism, death, and marriage records, can be helpful in finding further information on the parents, and even the names of witnesses to marriages and baptisms, because they are often relatives or close friends of the family. Every little piece of the puzzle is important, and it’s sometimes just that one little piece that helps you to get ahead in your research.

I know this won't help you much at this point, but here are two more tidbits of information that you may have seen already (but maybe not):

An Ignacy Kensek is headed to Schuykill Haven, PA in 1893:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schuylkill_Haven,_Pennsylvania
http://www.schuylkillhaven.org/
First Name: Ignacy Last Name: Kensek Ethnicity: Galicia, Galician Last Place of Residence: Date of Arrival: Dec 23, 1893 Age at Arrival: 33y Gender: M Marital Status: M Ship of Travel: Aller Port of Departure: Bremen Manifest Line Number: 0152 (incorrectly linked, the correct manifest line is 162).

And a Jan Kendrek arrived in the US on May 05, 1892 headed to Detroit, MI:
First Name: Jan Last Name: Kendrek Ethnicity: Galicia, Galician Last Place of Residence: Date of Arrival: May 05, 1892 Age at Arrival: 18y Gender: M Marital Status: U Ship of Travel: Dubbeldam Port of Departure: Amsterdam Manifest Line Number: 0226.

I'm attaching the respective screenshots for you.

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

typeogirl — Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Author: typeogirl

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:46 pm

Wow! Thanks Ute! Number #2 and #3 would be the best choices since 1901 was mentioned on the census as the year she came to the US. I am going to check them out.

Magroski49 had also told me that Malgorzata=Margaret... So right there he had given me a clue that I didn't see at the time.

Not sure why the headstone says Malgozata and not Malgorzata unless it was a typo, or they ran out of room, or whoever ordered the stone was not sure of the spelling....

Re: Research on Kensak, Stare Bystre... Advice & Guidance ne

Ute — Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:33 pm

Author: Ute

Posted: Mon Apr 09, 2012 1:33 pm

typeogirl wrote:

Hi Everyone! Hope you had a great Easter!
I have a bit of a lead. I saw my father for the holiday, he brought me a picture of my great-grandmother's headstone, the person he told me went by the name of Margaretta Lash.

Well, I am confused! She is buried with her son, who died at a fairly young age, and the name on her headstone is "Matka Malgozata". Can anyone tell me if those are first names, last names, maybe a first and middle name? I ran a search on stephenmorse.org, and I saw a few Malgozatas, but nothing that seemed to match her birthdate on the headstone of 1889. If these are first/middle names, what would the english equivalent be? Also, is it a logical leap from Malgozata to Lash?

I would appreicate everyone's opinion on this.

Thanks!

Matka = Mother -- the headstone says "Mother Malgorzata". Malgorzara was most likely her origial first name and Margaretta the name she used in America. Check out Ellis Island database, there's a Malgorzata Las, a Malgorzata Laska, and also a Malgorzata, Laskowsky:
1 Las, Malgorzata Born 1889 Arrived 1909
2 Laska, Malgorzata Born 1882 Arrived 1902
3 Laskowsky, Malgorzata Born 1885 Arrived 1901
Ute