PolishOrigins(TM) Forum

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

Tlgondek — Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:36 am

Author: Tlgondek

Posted: Sat Jan 13, 2024 2:36 am

So, I'm a descendant of Anton(in) Lutynski. When he married Antonina, they changed their last name to Schefezinski (spelling may be off). He was Jewish, she was a Catholic maid. They left Poland to avoid Kaiser's draft.

My understanding is that they married in Poland or Scotland, had a baby there, and then moved to the U. S. First North Dakota, and then Wisconsin, which is where I live. One of their 12 children was my great grandma.

My great grandma told my grandma that his father disowned him for giving up the Jewish faith, while one of her uncles told her that wasn't true.

Apparently Szmul Statickias owned a lot of land, and was Jewish, as was his son, whom I've already mentioned as my great great grandfather. His wife, Antonina, was originally Krahelski.

I don't know much more than that.

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

dnowicki — Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:44 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:44 pm

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Hi Jessica,

Well congratulations on getting a reply and the records!

On the marriage record, His surname is still Satikias when recorded for groom then Satukias when recorded for groom’s parents. It is not “L” it is “T”. You can tell by looking at how the scribe wrote the letters in other names. For example, compare it to the “t” in Stanislaw and in Konstancia written later in the record. Then look at names with “l”. You can see a clear difference in the obvious loop in the “l”.
I also see his mother’s surname as Grudilka but the picture may have cut off the last letters of her name.

You cannot rely on the written spelling of their names or any other information. Remember, it was spoken in heavy accents to an English scribe who wrote it the way he heard it. If you say the name out loud, Satikias, Satukias, a quickly spoken Z could sound like S, a D could sound like a T, a U can sound like an I.

As to the third record.. it seems the priest started writing the baptism entry for John but got the names confused so he crossed it out and started again with a new entry.

Maybe Dave can offer some insight as well.

I still encourage you to search for Antoni’s naturalization record from Wisconsin and his death certificate.

Best,
Cynthia

Hi Jessica & Cynthia,

The marriage and the baptism entries were written by the priests who officiated at the ceremonies—Michael Ahern for the wedding and John O’Dea for the baptism. Fr. O’Dea was born in County Clare, Ireland (cf. Attachment) and most likely Fr. Michael Ahern was also born in Ireland. It is possible that the first language of the priests was Gaelic rather than English. Of course they also were fluent to a degree in Latin and their English fluency was probably light years ahead of that of Antoni and Antonina and the witnesses and sponsors aka godparents. Cynthia is absolutely correct that the spelling of surnames cannot be relied upon. In my opinion, it is probably best not to sweat spelling variations in the entries. For what it is worth, I enhanced the images to make them more legible (cf. Attachments).

From what I read there was a fairly large Lithuanian Catholic immigrant population in Carfin. All the surnames which end in “as” seem to be of Lithuanian origin. But then again since the parish priests were Irish rather than Polish or Lithuanian perhaps they just made the surnames of members from Central and Eastern Europe they may have tacked that ending on to surnames of people from that region. I thought that St Francis would be the parish where the records would be because it was the oldest Catholic parish there and the only parish existing there in 1900. Although Scotland was a Catholic country prior to the Protestant Reformation later the established church of the country was Protestant. The Catholic population in Scotland grew during the second half of the 19th Century due to an influx of Irish Catholics who were looking for better living conditions and opportunities for employment than could be found at that time in Ireland. My wife’s maternal great grandparents immigrated from Ireland to Scotland during the 3rd quarter of the 19th Century and then left Scotland and immigrated to the USA after the end of WWI.
Anyway, here are translations of the two records.
Marriage Record Translation: In the year 1900 on the 5th day of the month of May I, Michael Ahern, joined in matrimony Anthony Satukias, the son of Samuel & Rachel once (= née) Grudukas spouses Satukias and Antonina Crouvelsky, the daughter of Stanislaus (Polish: Stanisław and Anna once Sk?? spouses Crouvelsky in the presence of the witnesses Joseph Narunchetz and Constance Romunouleski
Signature: Michael Ahern

Baptism Record Translation: In the first entry there were more errors than could be corrected in the entry so the priest crossed out the entry and started anew.
Left Margin: Number 19 (for the year) John Lutinskey
Body of Entry: In the year 1907 on the (blank) day of the (blank) month was born and in the year 1907 on the 16th day of the month of May John Lutinskey , the son of the marriage of Anthony and Antonina once ???alski, was baptized by me, John O’Dea. The male sponsor aka godfather was John Anslawskas and the female sponsor aka the godmother was Irene Schukiewsz.

It is a good thing that Antonina’s surname has been determined with certainty. Now the trick will be to do the same with Anthony.

Wishing you success,

Dave

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:30 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 10:30 am

Hi Jessica,

Well congratulations on getting a reply and the records!

On the marriage record, His surname is still Satikias when recorded for groom then Satukias when recorded for groom’s parents. It is not “L” it is “T”. You can tell by looking at how the scribe wrote the letters in other names. For example, compare it to the “t” in Stanislaw and in Konstancia written later in the record. Then look at names with “l”. You can see a clear difference in the obvious loop in the “l”.
I also see his mother’s surname as Grudilka but the picture may have cut off the last letters of her name.

You cannot rely on the written spelling of their names or any other information. Remember, it was spoken in heavy accents to an English scribe who wrote it the way he heard it. If you say the name out loud, Satikias, Satukias, a quickly spoken Z could sound like S, a D could sound like a T, a U can sound like an I.

As to the third record.. it seems the priest started writing the baptism entry for John but got the names confused so he crossed it out and started again with a new entry.

Maybe Dave can offer some insight as well.

I still encourage you to search for Antoni’s naturalization record from Wisconsin and his death certificate.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:33 am

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Mon Aug 09, 2021 8:33 am

Thanks for your great tip to check with the closest Roman Catholic church to Carfin, Scotland, Dave!

I emailed St. Francis Xavier last week but hadn't got a reply and figured I wouldn't hear back. But this morning I had a reply and they found three records in their archives! The images aren't great as they are pictures of the records, but they appear to be the marriage record of Antoni and Antonina, the baptism of John, and a third record I can't make out.

Would anyone mind taking a look at the names on the new marriage record to see if it looks any different or brings out any new clues to them? Could the "S" or the "t" in Satickias be an "L"?
Thank you!

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:59 pm

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Sat Aug 07, 2021 1:59 pm

So far I haven't heard back from the closest Roman Catholic church in Carfin, Scotland but am still looking for baptismal records in Scotland.

An Ancestry.dna match turned up a second cousin or first cousin once removed to Antoni's grandson; she messaged us and shared that her grandparents on her father's side came from "Suvalk" in north eastern Poland and family names are Kanoqicz and Guerowicz. So I will try searching some Jewish databases with those surnames to see if perhaps a match comes up with some of the names in the Lutynski/Kruhelski line!

It has been nice to be able to flesh out Antonina's line quite a bit more and I am hopeful that soon I will crack the surname mystery for Anton and be able to do the same for his family!

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:22 am

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:22 am

Thank you again, Dave and others for your assistance!

I posted the suspected death record for Maryanna Kruhelska 1896 to the Reddit translation page r/translator (obviously, not a certified source but a quick and easy start) and received the following reply:

"It appears that the girl who died (Maryanna Kruhelska) was just 6 years old when she died so I doubt that's the Maryanna you're looking for, sorry

It is also written here that "Kruhelska/Kruhelski" is the surname of her parents, Yuri and Anna, née Kuchinska <?>

So perhaps at least this record is not the correct Maryanna (I'm not deleting it from my files just yet) but we still can feel confident that Antonina Kruhelska's mother died before 1900, as reflected in her marriage record.

Also, I am sloooowly becoming more familar with the Geneteka site, with Cynthia's help (Thanks Cynthia!)...trying to look up each record that each helpful person here has posted and find it for myself the "slow" way seems to be the way I learn best. My main issue seems to be in finding the correct parish to search in.

Many thanks again for all the support!

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

dnowicki — Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:52 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Wed Aug 04, 2021 7:52 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Well, I did the search as Dave suggested on www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl

There is no digitized parish book for 1895-1896 inclusive. So, I could not find the birth record for Kamilla.

Also, I found no record of a remarriage for Stanislaw in 1896-1899. Perhaps he remarried in another parish?

Maybe there is another database with the missing parish books? As I said earlier, Family Search has copies of the books but they are locked. Also, not sure if the specific dates we need are available.

Best,
Cynthia

Hi Cynthia & Jessica,

Sorry that the search for Kamilla’s birth and Stanisław’s possible marriage didn’t work out. I believe that it is still possible to find those records along with some others like the marriage of Stanisław & Anna but that cannot be accomplished remotely. The parish belongs to the Diocese of Ełk and according to their info about the parish the parish registers from 1868 are housed in the parish archives. It appears that the missing year may be found there. Link: https://diecezjaelk.pl/parafie_diecezji/wizajny-parafia-p-w-sw-teresy/ That is a task for Jessica, if she decides to follow up on that avenue of research. The contact info is found on the parish page. The parish church is under the patronage of St. Theresa of Avila (św. Teresy z Avila) and the present church, which was built in 1825, is pictured on the site. The parish also has a Facebook group.

Jessica, A very useful research tool is the Geneteka site. Here is the link to that site with a search for the surname Kruchelski: https://geneteka.genealodzy.pl/index.php?op=gt&lang=pol&bdm=B&w=10pl&rid=B&search_lastname=kruchelski&search_name=&search_lastname2=&search_name2=&from_date=&to_date= Your indexed ancestors & their siblings have links to the scans of the actual records which makes things quite simple and easy. Here are some informational highlights. As Cynthia found, the parents of Stanisław are Tomasz Kruchelski and Teresa Wasielewska. They were married on November 13, 1827. Tomasz was a widower. He had married Rozalia Kaczanowska on Nov. 20, 1826. Their daughter Róża Marianna was born on Sept. 15, 1827 and her mother Rozalia died on Oct. 14, 1827 and then Tomasz married Teresa one month later. Tomasz & Teresa had 7 children, the last born in 1853. The parents of Tomasz were Franciszek Kruchelski & Elżbieta Żmujdzin. Besides Tomasz they had at least 3 other children.

To give this part of your research a jump start here are extracts (to minimize typing time) of the info contained in the attached birth & baptism record of Stanisław and of the marriage record of his parents.

Akt #108: Stanisław Kruchelski
Name of Child: Stanisław
Date of Birth: April 12, 1850 at 8 PM in Makowszczyna
Date of Record & of baptism: April 13, 1850 at 5 PM in Wiżajny
Parents: Tomasz Kruchelski, age 45, a gospodarz* in Makowszczyna & Teresa née Wasilewska, age 40
Baptismal sponsors aka godparents: Stanisław Racis & Rozalia Benatowiczowa**

Notes: *gospodarz: farmer who works a full farmstead
**The suffix -owa was used to denote a married woman. The surname of her husband was Bernatowicz.

Marriage of Tomasz Kruchelski & Teresa Wasilewska
Akt # 42
Date of Wedding: Nov. 13, 1827 in Wiżajny
Groom: Tomasz Kruchelski, a widower, a farmer from Makowszczyna, born there, age 25, son of Franciszek Kruchelski & Elżbieta Żmujdzin residing in Makowszczyn
Bride: Teresa Wasilewska, daughter of Jakub & Katarzyna Wasilewski, residing in Rogożajny, a maiden, 20 years of age
The akt (record) was signed only by the priest because those present were unable to write.

I hope this helps your research get off to a good start.

Dave

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:43 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:43 am

Well, I did the search as Dave suggested on www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl

There is no digitized parish book for 1895-1896 inclusive. So, I could not find the birth record for Kamilla.

Also, I found no record of a remarriage for Stanislaw in 1896-1899. Perhaps he remarried in another parish?

Maybe there is another database with the missing parish books? As I said earlier, Family Search has copies of the books but they are locked. Also, not sure if the specific dates we need are available.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:07 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 10:07 am

Great find, Dave! Yes, I will check for those records later today, and will post my findings.

Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

dnowicki — Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:11 am

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:11 am

mcdonald0517 wrote:

Hi Jessica,

I have been searching through the Parish books for the village of Wizajny for Antonina’s family.
There are many records for her siblings and extended family. Here is a list of records I found:

1) Birth record for Antonina's father, Stanislaw Kruhelski, born 1850 #108; parents Tomasz Kruhelski and Teresa Wadilewski

2) Birth record for Antonina's mother, Maryanna Andruszkiewicz, born 1852 #86; parents Franciszek Andruszkiewicz and Helena Zaborowski (note it seems she was baptized as Maryanna but went by Anna)

3) I think Stanislaw and Anna married in 1870 but there is no online parish book for this year. I believe they were married in 1870 because I searched the books for 1869 and from 1871 to 1875 and there’s no record of their marriage in those years note: their first child was born in 1875. That does not mean the book doesn't exist; it just means it was not part of the online collection I was reviewing.

4) Children of Stanislaw and Anna:

1875 #11 – Wladyslaw
1878 #24 – Franciszka
1880 - Antonina (you already have this one)
1882 #37 – Stanislaw
1884 #85 - Anna
1886 - #157 Victoria ?? or Wladyslawa ?? (I can't translate the name from Russian)
1891 #4 - Veronica

5) I have found a 1896 #31 death record for Maryanna Kruhelski. You will need it translated to confirm it is her. If it is, then Antonina was about 16 years old when her mother died.

There are also many extended family members for Stanislaw. I have seen records for people I think are his brothers or cousins: Anthony, Pawel, Kazimierz, Wincenty, Jerzy, and Franciszek. Either way there are many Kruhelski families in Wizajny which means it is very likely there are living relatives today.

As to the surnames, I believe the original spelling is actually Kruhelski as written on Stanislaw’s Polish birth record and all of his brothers / cousins records. Note: Records prior to 1868 were written in Polish and 1868 and after are written in Russian. The misspellings likely occurred in the transition from Polish to Russian, Plus, as Dave pointed out these individuals were farmers and may have been illiterate. I also believe the original surname for Anna is Anduszkiewicz for the same reasons. If you get the Polish birth records for Stanislaw and Anna translated, you will be able to get the precise spellings of the surnames. Translation will also provide you with the accurate surnames of the parents of Stanislaw and Anna.

If you would like images for all nine of the records I found, please send me a private email through the forum.

Finally, there are Civil Registation records for Jewish births, deaths, marriages in the village of Wizajny. However, they are locked and can only be viewed from a Family Research Center or participating library near you. This may come in handy once you discover Antoni’s original name. I would look here first because it is most likely that Antoni and Antonina lived near each other, i.e., in or around Wizjany. Here is the link to the Jewish records:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/29745?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Again, send me a private email via Polish Origins if you want the images of the 9 records I found.

Best,
Cynthia

Hi Cynthia & Jessica,

Geneteka indexed the marriage of Antonina’s youngest sister, Kamilla, to Józef Bernecki om Sept. 12, 1931 (cf attachment). The marriage record itself is not online since it falls under the 100 year privacy rule. Her age is given as 35, which would put her birth in 1896, the year of Anna’s death. Although the long paragraph records very rarely list the cause of death it is likely that she died of postpartum complications, especially given her age (44), if she died not long after the birth of Kamilla.

Cynthia, if you have a chance to look for Kamilla’s birth record it would be a wonderful thing. Also, if you have the time it would be helpful to check marriages for 1896 & 1897 for Stanisław. A widower with a newborn infant would have been likely to have remarried soon after the death of his wife because of the need to care for his infant daughter.

Great progress.

Dave

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:00 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:00 pm

No problem. I just sent you an email. Just log into Polish Origins and go to your email box. You should see it in your inbox. Let me know if you need any help.

Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:47 pm

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:47 pm

I must be doing something wrong or have set up my profile incorrectly because it is not letting me send a private email. I will keep trying and trouble-shooting! Perhaps I am just tired after a long day of work and will try again tomorrow.

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:03 pm

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:03 pm

Thank you so very much! This is wonderful and exciting!

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:13 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Mon Aug 02, 2021 7:13 pm

Hi Jessica,

I have been searching through the Parish books for the village of Wizajny for Antonina’s family.
There are many records for her siblings and extended family. Here is a list of records I found:

1) Birth record for Antonina's father, Stanislaw Kruhelski, born 1850 #108; parents Tomasz Kruhelski and Teresa Wadilewski

2) Birth record for Antonina's mother, Maryanna Andruszkiewicz, born 1852 #86; parents Franciszek Andruszkiewicz and Helena Zaborowski (note it seems she was baptized as Maryanna but went by Anna)

3) I think Stanislaw and Anna married in 1870 but there is no online parish book for this year. I believe they were married in 1870 because I searched the books for 1869 and from 1871 to 1875 and there’s no record of their marriage in those years note: their first child was born in 1875. That does not mean the book doesn't exist; it just means it was not part of the online collection I was reviewing.

4) Children of Stanislaw and Anna:

1875 #11 – Wladyslaw
1878 #24 – Franciszka
1880 - Antonina (you already have this one)
1882 #37 – Stanislaw
1884 #85 - Anna
1886 - #157 Victoria ?? or Wladyslawa ?? (I can't translate the name from Russian)
1891 #4 - Veronica
1896 - Kamilla (per Dave's discovery of Kamilla's marriage index in Geneteka; no birth record found)

5) I have found a 1896 #31 death record for Maryanna Kruhelski. You will need it translated to confirm it is her. If it is, then Antonina was about 16 years old when her mother died.

There are also many extended family members for Stanislaw. I have seen records for people I think are his brothers or cousins: Anthony, Pawel, Kazimierz, Wincenty, Jerzy, and Franciszek. Either way there are many Kruhelski families in Wizajny which means it is very likely there are living relatives today.

As to the surnames, I believe the original spelling is actually Kruhelski as written on Stanislaw’s Polish birth record and all of his brothers / cousins records. Note: Records prior to 1868 were written in Polish and 1868 and after are written in Russian. The misspellings likely occurred in the transition from Polish to Russian, Plus, as Dave pointed out these individuals were farmers and may have been illiterate. I also believe the original surname for Anna is Anduszkiewicz for the same reasons. If you get the Polish birth records for Stanislaw and Anna translated, you will be able to get the precise spellings of the surnames. Translation will also provide you with the accurate surnames of the parents of Stanislaw and Anna.

If you would like images for all nine of the records I found, please send me a private email through the forum.

Finally, there are Civil Registation records for Jewish births, deaths, marriages in the village of Wizajny. However, they are locked and can only be viewed from a Family Research Center or participating library near you. This may come in handy once you discover Antoni’s original name. I would look here first because it is most likely that Antoni and Antonina lived near each other, i.e., in or around Wizjany. Here is the link to the Jewish records:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/catalog/29745?availability=Family%20History%20Library

Again, send me a private email via Polish Origins if you want the images of the 9 records I found.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

dnowicki — Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:55 pm

Author: dnowicki

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:55 pm

jwaldo11 wrote:

Hello to Cynthia, Marcel, and Dave (and anyone else following along )

I have had a great breakthrough after searching from a different angle. I decided to give my poor brain a break from Polish and use my mother tongue for a while. So I looked for the son John born in England! With some great help I was able to find his birth record, not in England after all but in Carfin, Scotland.

I will attach that record because it includes what I believe is the marriage date for Antoni and Antonina Lutynski of 5 May, 1900. It lists the location as Holytown, England...which is a big surprise to me, but I suppose not entirely impossible that they could have gotten married in England, not in Poland. Apparently Antoni worked as a laborer in the coal mines.

Another big surprise is the birth of a son before John, Stanislaus, in 1900, who apparently died back in Poland before they immigrated in 1906 because I have seen no sign of him before today, other than a mention that Antonina had 5 children, 4 living, on a birth record. I would like to find further record of his existence; possibly a death record in Suwalki.

The third surprise is Antonina's possible surname, I can't read it from the birth record of Stanislaus or John so will attach both and perhaps one of the readers here will be able to understand it. It looks like a crude misspelling of Kruhelski or possibly an entirely different surname.

Thank you for following along, this is very exciting! I believe I am closer to finding their marriage certificate and, thus, Antoni's accurate last name.
Jessica

Hi Jessica & Cynthia,

The records from Scotland add an important dimension to the research but they also bring along new questions. Did Antoni & Antonina know each other in Poland or did they meet either in Scotland or in transit? If Antoni’s father owned a large farm in Poland why did Antoni decide to immigrate? Did he not expect to inherit? In Scotland he worked as a coal miner—not an easy or fun job. As Cynthia mentioned, some of the family history by his daughter Rose was accurate, other items (like the Kaiser) thing were no accurate, and other items need to be verified.

A few thoughts...When you search for his birth name it will not be Antoni, which is not a Jewish name. It appears that he converted to Catholicism before the wedding but did he leave Europe with the intention of converting and marrying Antonina or was that decision made in Scotland? (Even during the late 19th & early 20th Centuries he would not have needed to convert in order to marry her. He could have obtained a dispensation and married her.) As far as the spelling of surnames is concerned…It is no surprise that there are variations. The 1940 Fed Census states that Antonina had no formal education and that Antoni completed 8 years of education but given that other documents contain his mark rather than his signature it appears that his education was probably in Hebrew and thus he was not able to sign his name using the Latin/Roman alphabet. The info in the 1940 Census was provided by their son Edward.

The marriage record contains several important details. The first is that they married in a Catholic religious ceremony prior to the civil registration. The civil record notes “According to the forms of the Roman Catholic Church.” Catholicism was definitely a minority faith in Scotland at the time. The established Church of Scotland was the major faith. It may be worthwhile to try to locate the religions record of his baptism, their son John’s baptism and their marriage in Scotland. The Catholic parish of St. Francis Xavier (founded 1862) in Carfin would probably be the place to contact since they lived in Carfin at the time. (Cf. Attached contact info) Ask for a copy of the entries in the parish registers not just baptismal and marriage certificates. A backup site would be that of the diocese of which Carfin is a part: https://www.rcdom.org.uk/ Another useful tidbit is that Antonina’s mother, Anna, was deceased when they married in 1900.

It happens that I did quite a bit of research in that part of Scotland after my nephew asked me to research his wife’s ancestry after the birth of their first daughter. Here are links to info about coal mining in Scotland. Included is a description of Barracks Square (company housing) where they lived in Carfin: http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/index.html and http://www.scottishmining.co.uk/9.html Attached is a picture of company housing at Hamilton Farm in Lanarkshire. It may or may not resemble the company housing in Carfin but it does help to visualize coalo miners’ living conditions.

Congrats on all your progress.

Wishing you continued success,

Dave

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

looking for clues — Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:23 pm

Author: looking for clues

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 1:23 pm

Jessica, Cynthia,

If you haven't already done so, it might make sense to pursue baptismal records if the children were raised Catholic. These records often have information about where the parents were from. They can be especially helpful if the baptism took place in a Polish parish. Your search area for the records would span Poland, England, Scotland and the US. I believe in your prior post you said a couple of the children were born in Wisconsin.

Diane

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:29 am

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:29 am

Good morning,

It May be helpful if you had some historical context for your ancestors. Here is a Wiki article with maps of the Suwalki region and it’s relationship to Poland, Russia, and Lithuania over the years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suwałki_Region#19th_century

Also, I found this wonderful thesis about the migration of Lithuanian Jews that should give you some sense of what Antoni and his family were up against…. And reasons for immigration. It is really worth reading.

https://www.hofstra.edu/pdf/academics/colleges/hclas/geog/geog_shapirothesis2013.pdf

Per this article, a major factor in deciding where to go is having a relative in that location. Keep in mind that Antoni or Antonina may have chosen Scotland because one of them had a relative there. Perhaps Antoni even chose to adopt that relative’s surname - Lutynski - after he arrived. I notice there are other Lutynski family members in Holytown - I saw their records on the website you provided. Perhaps you can contact their living descendants in Scotland. Just a thought.

Best,
Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:26 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:26 pm

The Jewish surnames for Antoni will be far more difficult. Based on what he spoke as given names for his parents, it seems he gave the scribe the Yiddish forms of his parents given and surnames. Think of the layers of translation/transliteration going on here:

In Scotland: Yiddish to English transliteration
In Poland: Yiddish to Polish to Russian transliteration
In America: he was already using Lutynski??? or maybe he immigrated under his legal Jewish name?

And, there still is no village for Antoni....
And, once you find the village, any records for Antoni in Poland would be found in Jewish Synagogue registers - not Catholic parishes. His parents would have taken him for presentation at their local Synagogue.

Your discoveries have proven some pieces of your family lore: he was born into a Jewish family; he changed his name to Lutynski.

And we keep on looking....

Cynthia

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

jwaldo11 — Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:51 pm

Author: jwaldo11

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:51 pm

Genius thought! It all may be more connected than we think...when I first got the Scotland connection I thought it was all unraveling but here things are tying back together.
Thank you for the interpretation with the names, that helps quite a bit to understand and possibly with English search engines.

Re: Lutynski/Krugelski in Suwalki Update!

mcdonald0517 — Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm

Author: mcdonald0517

Posted: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:44 pm

I just had a wild idea that may actually hold some reality....

Remember that all the information was spoken to the scribe at the marriage office. What if Antonina said her mothers name was Antonina Anuskiewicz, but the scribe heard the surname as "Annie Skivish"? Sometimes, you have to use your imagination and speak the words out loud quickly to see what they sound like and how a non-Polish writer would write them down in English: Anu - Annie skiewicz - Skivish

Hold onto those Polish records from Wizjany. They may still be important.

Cynthia